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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Oracle Java SE 7u9 and 6u37 released

said by ZZZZZZZ:

I stopped updating months ago as I've disabled java in all my browsers for years.

The one instance you may find someone screaming about it is if they play games on Yahoo or Pogo,etc.

The main reason to have Java is for the ONLY decent speed tests out there (Visualware and Web 100). Flash speed tests are crap and not at all reliable.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to gugarci
So you have never done a reliable speed test and feel no need to ever do one? Wow! Who is your ISP and how do I get a perfect connection like yours?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

EdmundGerber

join:2010-01-04
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

said by ZZZZZZZ:

I stopped updating months ago as I've disabled java in all my browsers for years.

The one instance you may find someone screaming about it is if they play games on Yahoo or Pogo,etc.

The main reason to have Java is for the ONLY decent speed tests out there (Visualware and Web 100). Flash speed tests are crap and not at all reliable.

Maybe for someone with a limited imagination like yourself. Java has uses beyond the browser. As a matter of fact, it's browser implementation is it's weakest link. I disable it on my browsers as well.

By the way - all speed tests are flawed. The only way to be sure is to download or upload data.


jabarnut
Light Years Away
Premium,MVM
join:2005-01-22
Galaxy M31
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to StuartMW
Thanks, Stuart...got it.
(I'll stay out of the argument as to whether I personally need it or not, and why).
--
I had a life once.....now I have a Computer and a Modem.

EdmundGerber

join:2010-01-04
kudos:1
said by jabarnut:

Thanks, Stuart...got it.
(I'll stay out of the argument as to whether I personally need it or not, and why).

I can't believe I'm defending Java, either, so good choice!


gugarci
Premium
join:2004-02-25
Lyndhurst, NJ
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 recommendations

reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

So you have never done a reliable speed test and feel no need to ever do one? Wow! Who is your ISP and how do I get a perfect connection like yours?

Did I insult you in this thread for you to reply in that manner. I asked a simple question. At the time i asked my question I forgot that Java is used in some speed tests. And I only performed a speed test if I notice a problem in my connection, which is rare.

Your problem is that your a paranoid. You go through life thinking everyone is out get you. You probably spend a good part of your day constantly checking your door and windows to make sure they are locked. You are a psychiatrist's wet dream.
Have a nice day.
--
Desktop Win 7 x64 Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6, Laptop Win 7 x64 & Desktop XP Pro Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6 & Online Armor Premium v5.5, Netbook Win 7 Starter and Netbook XP Home Avast 7, MBAM and Hitman Pro used on-demand only.


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to rcdailey
Yup that is one way..but what I had them do is this

COPY C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\bin\javacpl.cpl to C:\WINDOWS\system32\javacpl.cpl

which it failed to do..and that was easier for them..there is a javacpl.cpl in the bin..and it is easy to copy and paste it in the system32 folder. All three then found they had access again to the Java(TM) control panel but as we suspected it was set again by default to do that auto update crap..even though in 7u7 it was set to never do that.
--
Gladiator Security Forum
http://www.gladiator-antivirus.com/


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
said by Name Game:

...but as we suspected it was set again by default to do that auto update crap..even though in 7u7 it was set to never do that.

That is par for the course these days. Just about everyone (Adobe, Apple, Oracle, etc) ignore previous preferences and sometimes even the ones you select at install time and enable/re-enable auto updating.

I actually have a mental checklist to go disable/uninstall auto-updating. I also check to see if any services were added and remove them if they were.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
Same here..but in that case of XP..one could not even access that panel GUI for Java..I also have them go into the advanced tab and change a few things in there iif they really need java installed. Screenshot above is default settings in the advanced before changes made there.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

1 recommendation

I usually run javacpl.exe manually, and as an Administrator, since some time ago Sun/Oracle decided to make many settings only available to Administrators and I'm usually logged into a non-Admin account.

FYI if you have the 64-bit version of Java installed along with the 32-bit they share the same settings. I use the 32-bit javacpl.exe.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto
reply to StuartMW
This is fracking ridiculous !! I'm going around installing update 35 and now this one comes out . (sigh) Now to start over and install this one for my users .
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
said by Boricua:

This is fracking ridiculous !! I'm going around installing update 35 and now this one comes out . (sigh) Now to start over and install this one for my users .

Personally, I'm glad the fix is available to anyone who installs and uses Java. I would rather have had the fix delivered even sooner if at all possible. It almost sounds like you are wishing for a delayed release date?
--
Remember that cool hidden "Graffiti Wall" here on BBR? After the name change I became the "owner", so to speak as it became: Dustyn's Wall »[Serious] RIP


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
I guess everyone missed the part about this being a scheduled release. Anyone following this forum should've been aware of it for about a month.

»www.oracle.com/technetwork/topic···861.html

quote:
Critical Patch Updates

Critical Patch Updates are collections of security fixes for Oracle products. They are available to customers with valid support contracts. They are released on the Tuesday closest to the 17th day of January, April, July and October. The next four dates are:

15 January 2013
16 April 2013
16 July 2013
15 October 2013

For Oracle Java SE Critical Patch Updates, the next three dates are:

19 February 2013
18 June 2013
15 October 2013

--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


kickass69

join:2002-06-03
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
Seems unacceptable to only release critical security updates every 4 months regardless of how serious the flaws with how quickly they can be exploited. Oracle needs to get up to speed with the reality of today or find the user-base for Java continue to shrink long term.


Pentangle
With our thoughts we make the world.
Premium
join:2006-06-01
Vancouver BC
kudos:2

2 recommendations

reply to StuartMW
I uninstalled Java from my three computers after the last security problem surfaced and haven't noticed its absence. Don't need it and don't want it.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
reply to kickass69
said by kickass69:

Seems unacceptable to only release critical security updates every 4 months...

/sigh

Those are the scheduled dates. In the case of serious flaws they release "out of band" versions. For example

»Java 7 update7 released today to patch zero day vulnabilty

As it turns out more exploits were made public just after that release.

»Java 7 update7 has security vulnerability

» Java flaw allows complete bypass of security sandbox

Oracle decide to wait until yesterday (10/16/2012) to release a fix.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


kickass69

join:2002-06-03
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
Yes I'm aware of the timeline of said vulnerabilities and obviously the schedule. I'm disagreeing with it is all. They should be putting out more out of band security updates sooner for major issues like this like a lot of major and even smaller outfits do vs waiting a month or two.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to EdmundGerber
said by EdmundGerber:

[
By the way - all speed tests are flawed. The only way to be sure is to download or upload data.

You should educate yourself. Yes, of course, I use OOL's FTP test (over 12 years now) and I download data and I have shit for speed. I know why also thanks to the superb tests available from Visualware ....in particular, the Quality test and also thanks to Ping Plotter Pro. All other speed tests from ALL sources are capacity tests which, I agree with you, are junk. Downloading data can show if the download is slow but it can't point to where the problem lies so I don't why you would say it is the "only way".

My ISP uses Visualware's tests on its gateways and used to use their quality test for its customers but they found that only about 1% of customers understood the test and they got too many calls. Plus, while tier 3 techs very much supported using the test, corporate management said no when the contract was up because corporate TWC does not want users to know how bad quality is on their line.

With my ISP, simply telling them that I get poor speed on downloads of data gets me NOWHERE. Maybe your ISP takes your word for it and assumes also all responsibility for congested routes, etc. and never blames your computer, your router, your stupidity, etc. If so, you are very lucky. I have to prove to my ISP what is going on. I have many years of data all pointing to the node as the problem area. That is the case now also.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

jupitermoon

join:2011-09-27
reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:

Hearing that some people who used the manual update by going into the Java Control Panel Extension in the control panel of WinXP and hitting the update now..did get the Java updated to this Java SE 7u9..but now there is no longer that icon in the control panel and that part failed to install. Three of them had the last version of 7u7 installed. Anyone else now missing that in Win XP.

I did the manual update from the Control Panel on an XP Pro SP3 system and also temporarily lost the icon in Control Panel afterwards. However, as soon as I rebooted, the icon came back.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to MagnusM
said by MagnusM:

said by gugarci:

Is there some kind of list on the net that will tell you what programs or types of sites use Java?

If you're asking this you probably don't need Java installed at all

I don't need Flash Player but Java I require. I have software (paid software) that requires Java. Java is a LOT more important than is Flash...that is the one I can do without.

I use very old versions of Java on my Host machine and my virtual machines. I am upset with Mozilla because it blocked my Java on Fx and SM and I can't unblock it. So, I have to use IE for Java or use an old version of Opera where Java is built in as the latest Opera blocks my old Java versions. I can take care of myself security wise. I don't need my browsers acting as though I am an ignorant of computers user that they need to protect.

I'm waiting on my new computer to arrive. I'll be installing Java on it and then upgrading my paid software (have to pay for the upgrade) that uses Java. So, I don't understand people saying they don't need Java.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

3 edits
The browsers didn't block your very old Java 6 update 7 from 2008. It stopped working a couple years ago, before the security blocks started, because browsers adopted a standard API to work with Java that your old Java version doesn't use. That's why you can't unblock it, it's a compatibility issue not a block issue.
»java.com/en/download/faq/firefox···ugin.xml

said by Java website :
Starting in Firefox 3.6, Mozilla foundation will drop support on OJI (Open Java Virtual Machine Integration) and will only support the standard NPAPI and NPRuntime interfaces. The Java Plug-in which is in Java version 6 update 10 or newer versions supports the NPAPI and NPRuntime interfaces. Therefore, starting with Firefox 3.6, Java-based applets will NOT work unless you are running Java version 6 Update 10 or newer.

--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
No, my Java worked just fine on Fx, SM and Opera until the browsers blocked it about a year ago. These older versions still work just fine on IE 6 and IE 8. Mozilla says it has blocked my Java and says I can unblock the block but it doesn't unblock. So, if Mozilla did not block it then why do they claim to have blocked it?

I never used Fx 3.6. I had Fx3.0 on a virtual machine but TBE didn't work on it much better than on Fx 2 (where it didn't work at all with out several hacks that I had to use). I continued to use Fx 1.5 (best version of Fx ....after that it has all been downhill) on the host machine until Fx 4 was released (and made Opera my default browser for two years). On my virtual machines I had Fx 3.0 and Java worked fine until I upgraded to Fx 10 ESR which is unstable and not nearly as good as Fx 4 (which isn't as good as 1.5).

Java continued to work on Opera until recently. Now, I just start an older version of Opera. (Current version is the worst version I've ever had and I've used Opera since version 3).

My old Java works on IE6 and IE8. Of course, what I really wish I still had was Microsoft's Java Virtual Machine. I NEVER touched Sun Java until Microsoft was forced to kill their Java which was superior to Sun's.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to Name Game
Is there a guide or a list of settings that should be changed from the stock defaults?


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

2 edits
reply to Mele20
You may have had a slightly newer version. Java 6 update 10 did use the new API and would've worked until browsers started blocking it for security reasons.

Firefox 3.6 used the new Java API and required the use of Java 6 update 10 and up.

Many of the other browsers switched to the new APIs and needed the same Java versions around the same time frame. Making a single Java release usable by multiple browsers was easier to support than coding individual versions of Java for each browser.

redwolfe_98
Premium
join:2001-06-11
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to kickass69
said by kickass69:

Does this update finally fix all the currently known security vulnerabilities and 0-day flaws?

my understanding is that, no, "java" will not be patched until the "february" release.. see this article:

»threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/oracl···e-101712

whether or not "java" ever is actually patched remains to be seen..


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
And by then even MORE serious vulnerabilities will have been found.