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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

Looking for house model name/plan - This is a long shot

Click for full size
The above picture is a house exactly like mine, built in 1964. I didn't post my house's picture for privacy reason

I've been wondering how my house is built, so I can better imagine renovation options (like which walls can come down). I wouldn't do those things myself, but I'd prefer to have a good idea before bringing in a building engineer only to be told I can't do so-and-so without restructuring.

However, my house model is quite common, this is probably just applicable for those living in the Montreal area.

So this is a long shot, but does anyone know anything to help me find the original blue prints?

What I know so far
I've visited a few of those houses during my house shopping days. They have identical interiors. So a blueprint would be quite "generic".

The company that built it was called "Island Construction" and they don't even have a trace of existence in google anymore.

Long shot I know!

Maybe someone dealt with one before and knows key details

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

I think you should post a floor plan of both floors, as well as the location of the lateral beam in the basement. Then, where are your heating registers? What's in your attic, trusses or rafters? Is the roof's weight being borne by the inside walls?

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

Click for full size
Roof is fink style trusses (the drawing I made is viewed sideways compared to the other floor plans).

The registers are marked in red, return vents in green.

In the basement, the black load bearing walls are points were the concrete slab is slightly raised with a frame. Lateral beams run along them.
The brown lines in the basement are lateral beams that are suspended, meaning it's an opening.
Those lateral beams seem to be replicated on the floor above (Not top floor).

The garage has its own roof and is elevated above the basement floor, but below the main floor.

My goal/idea was to destroy the wall between the den and kitchen, and also remove the entrance lobby (Next to the den). I fear that the wall between the den and kitchen is load bearing, though i know there USED to be a doorway in between the two, that's what's curious to me, as to what's behind that dry wall.

I've seen a house like mine that was HEAVILY renovated, and they managed to destroy the den, but they had to put a support column at the top right corner of what used to be the den.

The laundry room will be transfered to the garage (I will make a separation wall to make a living space while keeping a half garage at the front), but I know that wall between kitchen and laundry room is not load bearing.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK

Premium Member

From your drawing it certainly looks like the wall between the Kitchen and the Den is supporting weight from the walls on the upper floor.

I'm no expert, however. Good luck.

I know anything is possible, with time and money.
tomupnorth
join:2005-01-14
UpperMidwest

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said by alkizmo:

I've been wondering how my house is built, so I can better imagine renovation options... I wouldn't do those things myself, but I'd prefer to have a good idea before bringing in a building engineer...

Any decent remodeler will be able to look at your house & walls and make a determination, and quickly. You're going to need a quality contractor anyway; may as well start calling some?

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

said by tomupnorth:

Any decent remodeler will be able to look at your house & walls and make a determination, and quickly. You're going to need a quality contractor anyway; may as well start calling some?

It's not gonna happen until after a couple of years.
A remodel like that would probably trigger a kitchen renovation as well. I'm trying to get the big picture in my mind, or at least see the moving blocks so that over the next couple of years, my mind works on the possibilities.

Zorack
join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV

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Since it won't be at least a couple of years before you to do your renovation,it's good that you are planning well ahead of what you need done(as I have for several years before I got enough money to diy). Make sure that you plan for any headaches as well,as they will crop up before you know it Renovations are great things
dick white
Premium Member
join:2000-03-24
Springfield, VA

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My guess is that the den/kitchen wall is load bearing as it appears to sit right on top of the bearing wall in the basement and appears to be right under a series of walls between the bedrooms upstairs, which in turn probably support the centers of the roof trusses. Removing that wall would take away the central support for the load of the roof and upstairs floor, as you have already surmised. But I don't think that means the end of your idea to open up the kitchen and den space. You mentioned another renovation where a column was set in what will become the middle of the room (and probably a beam of some sort across the ceiling where the old wall was), not an attractive solution. Perhaps a new system of supporting columns can be placed by the stairs wall with a longer cross-beam from the garage wall, and then the area will be completely physically unobstructed, though you will have a visual delineation between the two former spaces by the beam across the ceiling. I said a "system" of columns, because depending on what support there is beside the corresponding stairs wall in the basement, you might need to shore that up too. If the beam across the den/kitchen ceiling is to large and obtrusive (because it has to support both the upstairs floor and roof loads) you could put a similar columns directly above them upstairs in the bedroom closet and hallway with a smaller beam across the closet ceilings to hold up the roof trusses, spreading the load out to the columns and straight down to the basement, and then the beam across the downstairs ceiling could be smaller as it would only support the upstairs floor load. Having now solved your engineering problem, only the decorating problem remains.

dw

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

Seems like a lot of restructuring
Plus the structural wall on the staircase is on the opposite side of the stairs.

I found that the house that was renovated is still for sale!
So here it is!
»12765berry.realbird.com/

Check picture 6 to 9, the column in the center is what I was talking about.
dick white
Premium Member
join:2000-03-24
Springfield, VA

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oh my, that column is rather awkward. But looking at the pictures, the column lines up very nicely with the end of the wall at the fifth stair, so it would involve rebuilding that wall-end to enclose a post on which the cross beam rests. The problem is we don't know what sort of structural support is underneath that (though you could look at the corresponding spot beside the basement stairs). I suspect not much. Your drawing shows the bearing wall in the basement only goes part way from the garage foundation to the stairs. My guess looking only at the realtor picture plus your drawing, the column was left in the middle of the room because that was the end point of the wall in the basement, and they choose the convenience of leaving the column in the middle of the room upstairs rather than do what was necessary in the basement to be able to move the supporting post 3 feet further to the stairs wall. Either way, you can see in the pictures how the beam across the ceiling creates a visual break between the two areas.

One further observation, that exposed column is pretty big for just a support post. You show a heat register at that location. Is that where the main riser is to the second floor, and that large box of column must remain there as the duct chase? If so, you have your answer.

cheers,
dw

BlueMist
join:2011-01-24
Cookeville, TN

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You might want to check with your local building code enforcement or registration office. Many of them ask/demand for and keep copies of blueprints. If you are lucky they might have your blueprints on file and be willing to make you a copy for a small fee.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

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said by dick white:

oh my, that column is rather awkward. But looking at the pictures, the column lines up very nicely with the end of the wall at the fifth stair, so it would involve rebuilding that wall-end to enclose a post on which the cross beam rests. The problem is we don't know what sort of structural support is underneath that (though you could look at the corresponding spot beside the basement stairs). I suspect not much. Your drawing shows the bearing wall in the basement only goes part way from the garage foundation to the stairs.

It actually goes all the way, with a strenghtened door frame for that "gap"

The picture below is taken from the basement, underneath the den, with the stairs on the right side.



Sorry about the mess in the way. I'm smack-middle in basement renos.
said by dick white:

Either way, you can see in the pictures how the beam across the ceiling creates a visual break between the two areas.

There's already this visual break in that hallway anyway
But ya, that visual break is something to accept. I see it in a lot of other houses with large open areas, they make those breaks as "delimiters" to sort of visually split the kitchen from dining room, or living room from dining room, etc.
said by dick white:

One further observation, that exposed column is pretty big for just a support post. You show a heat register at that location. Is that where the main riser is to the second floor, and that large box of column must remain there as the duct chase? If so, you have your answer.

I went to inspect upon your observation.
You're SOOOOO FREAKING CLOSE that I will give you the full credit as if you were 100% on it.

It's the top (Bedrooms) floor's air return duct.

Good catch!

The return air ducts are pretty massive in the basement. I wonder if that column isn't purely a return duct. It's kinda of lazy I guess.
said by BlueMist:

You might want to check with your local building code enforcement or registration office. Many of them ask/demand for and keep copies of blueprints. If you are lucky they might have your blueprints on file and be willing to make you a copy for a small fee.

Yeah that's a better idea than what I had, which was to go ask the seller.
The renos in that house were so major, there's no way they couldn't have filed a permit with the plans.
dick white
Premium Member
join:2000-03-24
Springfield, VA

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Well, there you have it. You can take a significant part of the wall down, but you are stuck with the column. How about a different idea for combining the den and kitchen space. Take the wall out as in the other pictures, but close in the current door from the front hall to the den. The left side of the den area as you look into it from the kitchen will now be a unbroken wall out to the current corner/duct column, and maybe you could put some built-in shelves and cabinets along that wall so that the width of the column seems to have a purpose in visually supporting the width of the shelving along the rest of the wall.

dw

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo

Member

I'd rather have the whole area open with a column than having a wall where the door from hallway-2-den was just to cover the column. If the column is just for the air return, I'd find a way to reroute it differently.

However I noticed also that in the renovated house, they removed the load bearing wall in the basement.
Picture 11 from their listing is from the same POV (except a few degrees to the right) as the photo of my basement.

In their picture, the indoor door is to access the furnace, it's right next to the stairs. The outdoor door was added in their renovation.
So they restructured the load bearing section in the basement as well.
dick white
Premium Member
join:2000-03-24
Springfield, VA

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sounds like you'll need an HVAC expert more than an engineer...

dw