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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to vue666

Re: [Serious] Border agent shot; shooter kills self

Reconsider what, exactly? CBSA officers have been armed for nearly a decade now.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

I wonder if they will reconsider bearing arms at the border....

They've had sidearms for a while.
In the summer they also have bare arms.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

Reconsider what, exactly? CBSA officers have been armed for nearly a decade now.

Close but not completely accurate... less then half are armed...

quote:
SURREY, B.C. - Public Safety Minister Vic Toews says he's not interested in speeding up the arming of border guards, despite the shooting Tuesday that sent a guard at a B.C. crossing to hospital with a gunshot wound.

The Canada Border Services Agency said in 2006 that it planned to arm its 4,800 guards within 10 years and so far, just under half have been trained.

Read more: »www.montrealgazette.com/news/Bor···9aaj1M9i




Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 recommendation

said by vue666:

Close but not completely accurate... less then half are armed...

... and you don't know the whole story of how the arming process of the CBSA was undertaken or the context of those numbers, either.

Officers who were hired prior to mandatory firearm training are given the option to not arm themselves and continue to use just a baton and pepper spray. Anyone hired after the arming of the service has no choice and has to carry a firearm a requirement of the job. The ones who chose not to arm will eventually be replaced through attrition.

It is impossible for the CBSA to force existing officers to be armed as it was not a requirement when they were hired. Most of the guys who refuse to be armed are in their 50s or 60s getting close to retirement and end up getting dumped off into immigration which is not a front-line job. Older guys also tend to be higher-ranking officers posted "inside" who wouldn't be exposed to the front-line dangers that would require a firearm. There are also plenty of other inside jobs that don't require being armed with a firearm. My wife works inside. She is not armed.

So, in other words, they ARE armed. You just don't know enough about it to be able to understand the context of a newspaper article like that.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

Jesus what kind of weapon was he using?

honestly, depending on where he shot himself, and what with, a bullet penetration through a human body isn't really that difficult...in many cases where people are shot, it is quite common for the bullet to have an entrance and exit wound...a small calibre bullet (or hollowpoint/defensive style round) may get lodged/deflected by some stronger structural bone material, but a vast part of the body is fairly "soft and squishy" with flesh and organs...there isn't much there to stop a bullet, in many cases.

EDIT: DOH, just read I_H8_Spam's comment right after.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
reply to FFH5
BC Coroner says the suspect in the Peace Arch border shooting has
been identified as a 32 year old named Andrew Michael Crews.

FaxCap

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13

1 edit
reply to FFH5
This story says the officer was not armed because she was a very new employee and had not yet completed the firearm training.

(EDIT: See link in later post).


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by PX Eliezer70:

This story says the officer was not armed because she was a very new employee and had not yet completed the firearm training.

That is completely untrue. By the time a new recruit has gone through "boot camp" at Rigaud they would already be trained and certified to use a firearm.


WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been

join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON
Reviews:
·Acanac
Even if she were armed, could this have been prevented? She's expecting the standard visitor interaction... where are you going, how long, etc, and bang!

An OPP officer friend told me a story of being in a training session at a police facility. The trainer said that they were going to observe him making a routine traffic stop. As he stood beside the car, the window rolled down, and the driver pulled a gun. My friend said he froze, didn't immediately go for his own gun, and had it been a real situation he wasn't sure if he would react differently.

I hope that that we never get to the point that every interaction with the police or border guard is with them with one hand on their gun. I would like to survive reaching for my wallet.

This was an unfortunate incident; I hope it is isolated and that it is proven that he was killing himself - unintentionally wounding the guard. Bad as that is, knowing that the border guard was not the intended victim makes this a different story altogether.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by PX Eliezer70:

This story says the officer was not armed because she was a very new employee and had not yet completed the firearm training.

That is completely untrue. By the time a new recruit has gone through "boot camp" at Rigaud they would already be trained and certified to use a firearm.

Obviously I believe you, you would know because of your wife.

But this is what I read, perhaps it is an example of some big miscommunication.

Roslyn MacVicar, the boarder agency’s regional director for the Pacific region, said Bowcock completed her training with the agency in July and was deployed to the region. She hadn’t yet completed the training that would allow her to carry a firearm.

“I know everyone within our organization is thinking about Lori and wishing her well,” MacVicar said in the statement.

»news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/17···-motive/

--------------------------

I know that Canadians spell things differently but I was surprised to see the National Post say:

boarder agency

Or are they just idiots at the National Post?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
That doesn't make sense. I know people who've been kicked out of Rigaud because they couldn't pass their firearms and use of force certification which is a prerequisite before they officially become an "FB" as they're called and posted on the border.

There has to be more to the story. Even when I read this to my wife she immediately started shaking her head before I had finished the sentence.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

I know that Canadians spell things differently but I was surprised to see the National Post say:

boarder agency

Or are they just idiots at the National Post?

Mostly.


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to FFH5
I hope the real story comes out soon. They are now back to saying
the guy did shoot the guard 1st then himself. A union spokesman had
said the bullet that struck the guard was the same bullet he killed
himself with. Now they are back to 2 shots.

FaxCap

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
So it's become one of these, has it?

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory


Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

Or are they just idiots at the National Post?

Could be, the NP has a cash flow problem (it is not a new one, they haven't made a dime since they launched). As such they have been cutting staff and screwing around with their layout in order to cut costs, and increase sales. This week they will merge several sections together for tomorrows edition. They also killed the Monday edition over the summer the past few years to cut expenses. The FP is reducing the scope of their stock index.

Lately the paper has gotten less intelligent, more hardnosed, negative and preachy. I though they had been moving towards a paywall for web but not sure how they will pull that one off without completely tanking ad revenue.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to PX Eliezer70
Found out some more info. She wasn't armed. Reason being that even though she completed training there weren't enough spots to undergo firearm certification, but they needed officers at the post so they put her there anyway with the intention that she become certified once a spot opened. Or at least, that's the general jist of it.

In other words - a clusterfuck. Not that it would have made any difference, but there's going to be a lot of questions asked over this whole situation beyond a crazy man with a gun from Washington.


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
said by Gone:

In other words - a clusterfuck. Not that it would have made any difference, but there's going to be a lot of questions asked over this whole situation beyond a crazy man with a gun from Washington.

Why would there be questions asked? She could have been carrying
an AK-47 with grenades hanging from her belt and still got shot by this idiot???

FaxCap


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by FaxCap:

Why would there be questions asked?

The bigger question is why someone would be posted to primary inspection without having completed firearms and deadly force certification despite that now being a requirement of the job. The fact that she still would have gotten shot if armed is irrelevant, though based on what I've heard she may have had a chance to shoot back.

It's not something any of you will care or know about about, but it will be a shitstorm between the CBSA and PSAC. Mark my words.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
said by Gone:

said by FaxCap:

Why would there be questions asked?

The bigger question is why someone would be posted to primary inspection without having completed firearms and deadly force certification despite that now being a requirement of the job.

Short answer: budget cuts by The Hxxxxxr Government**

**where any spending cut is a good spending cutTM


Thingamajig
Premium
join:2004-11-03
B.C.
reply to FFH5
First Canadian Border boarder guard ever shot on duty. Not a bad stat considering.
--
Some hero's wear capes, mine wear combat boots.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Short answer: budget cuts by The Hxxxxxr Government**

Bzzt wrong. Nothing was "cut" - it was just poor planning from the start.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by Gone:

said by MaynardKrebs:

Short answer: budget cuts by The Hxxxxxr Government**

Bzzt wrong. Nothing was "cut" - it was just poor planning from the start.

shhh...don't ruin his fantasy land.
Expand your moderator at work


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw

1 recommendation

reply to FFH5

Re: [Serious] Border agent shot; shooter kills self

The guard is walking....family says she's doing well....surgeon says
"she's the luckiest unlucky person" as the bullet missed major blood vessels!

»www.vancouversun.com/news/thewes···ory.html

FaxCap


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to FFH5

Re: So here he is....

Click for full size
The shooter and the border guard

FaxCap
Expand your moderator at work


bluebaron2
Stuff Happens
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-01
North of 44
reply to Anon

(topic move) [Serious] Border agent shot; shooter kills self

Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 8 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »[Serious] Border agent shot; shooter kills self

This is not another gun control thread.