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Canadian Broadband → Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

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This is a sub-selection from Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone to elconcho Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 2:17 pm to elconcho Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3? Teksavvy is using the non-aggregate POIs throughout Rogers territory. The new speed tiers aren't available on them. Start uses the aggregate POIs for Cogeco and Start and has the capability of offering DOCSIS 3 speeds. The fastest they offer is 30 in Cogeco territory and 32 in Rogersland. They have the capability of offering 75 on Rogers and 50 (soon to be 70 if the speed tests are to believed) on Cogeco, but they don't do it - yet.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 2:17 pm ·
sbrook Mod join:2001-12-14 Ottawa	sbrook Mod 2012-Oct-19 3:18 pm TPIAs do use D3 in a limited way. But the CRTC hasn't twisted the incumbents arms hard enough to offer that to the TPIAs. The same problem existed with DSL (and to some extent, still does).
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 3:18 pm ·
elwoodblues Elwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in	elwoodblues to Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 3:53 pm to Gone Marc has alluded that a Teksavvy/Cogeco deal is in the works.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 3:53 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 4:52 pm said by elwoodblues: Marc has alluded that a Teksavvy/Cogeco deal is in the works. That should be interesting, but they've had a deal "in the works" ever since they got into TPIA with Rogers. I'll believe it when I see it.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 4:52 pm ·
El Quintron Cancel Culture Ambassador Premium Member join:2008-04-28 Tronna	El Quintron Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 4:54 pm said by Gone: That should be interesting, but they've had a deal "in the works" ever since they got into TPIA with Rogers. I'll believe it when I see it. I'm wondering why it got held up for so long as well...
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 4:54 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 5:34 pm said by El Quintron: I'm wondering why it got held up for so long as well... Growth can be just as much a curse as it can be a blessing.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 5:34 pm ·
El Quintron Cancel Culture Ambassador Premium Member join:2008-04-28 Tronna	El Quintron Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 5:44 pm said by Gone: said by El Quintron: I'm wondering why it got held up for so long as well... Growth can be just as much a curse as it can be a blessing. True, if I'm correctly assuming the Cogeco is the smallest of the incumbents, Teksavvy might be someone they're a little afraid of.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 5:44 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 5:48 pm They aren't the smallest incumbent, but they are the smallest of the "significant" ones.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 5:48 pm ·
El Quintron Cancel Culture Ambassador Premium Member join:2008-04-28 Tronna	El Quintron Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 5:53 pm said by Gone: They aren't the smallest incumbent, but they are the smallest of the "significant" ones. That's an accurate qualifier, other incumbents are usually local players, and you paraphrased what I meant anyway.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 5:53 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-19 6:04 pm There's Eastlink, but they claim that they had technical reasons for not offering TPIA and so far the CRTC hasn't forced them into doing it. If they were part of the TPIA/GAS game, they would be the smallest of the "significant" ones, not Cogeco.
	actions · 2012-Oct-19 6:04 pm ·
nitzguy Premium Member join:2002-07-11 Sudbury, ON	nitzguy Premium Member 2012-Oct-20 10:04 am said by Gone: There's Eastlink, but they claim that they had technical reasons for not offering TPIA and so far the CRTC hasn't forced them into doing it. If they were part of the TPIA/GAS game, they would be the smallest of the "significant" ones, not Cogeco. Eastlink doesn't look profitable to the TPIAs for a simple reason...competition. Unlike all the other ISPs it seems out there, maybe minus Shaw, they are the most competitive...their 20mbit package here in Sudbury, unlimited....no cap...so there's not much room to manuver on distinction between different services...if someone came to you and said I can offer you 20mbit unlimited, no cap for $63/month...modem rental included...if I look at TSI's pricing for 18mbit @ unlimited...its $55/month...so again I'm figuring Eastlink just doesn't provide an ROI for Teksavvy to offer anything useful... The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able to offer those kinds of speeds without some huge pipe between Rogers (or what they call the Red network) and Start themselves... TSI is in the same boat...hence why they always ran into congestion issues...imagine if they had offered faster speed tiers...its just not a good ROI for TSI either, I mean they are in business after all.
	actions · 2012-Oct-20 10:04 am ·

damir52 SFRJ Premium Member join:2003-05-24	damir52 Premium Member 2012-Oct-20 10:08 am said by nitzguy: The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able to offer those kinds of speeds without some huge pipe between Rogers (or what they call the Red network) and Start themselves... ... maybe rocca can tell us if start is able to offer higher speeds or not, i would like to know that as well
	actions · 2012-Oct-20 10:08 am ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone to nitzguy Premium Member 2012-Oct-20 10:44 am to nitzguy said by nitzguy: Eastlink doesn't look profitable to the TPIAs for a simple reason...competition. Actually there have been numerous applications made to the CRTC to force Eastlink into TPIA. In each situation the requests have been denied due to Eastlink claiming technical reasons that prevent them from doing TPIA. The last filing I read, and there could be others more recent, was that Teksavvy was working on an agreement "resell" Eastlink service in Halifax in the interim until a method to due proper TPIA is available. If ISP's didn't want to do TPIA on Eastlink for whatever reasons you claim, they sure seem to be fighting for access to it and are even doing things to try to get their name out there for when it is
	actions · 2012-Oct-20 10:44 am ·
Teddy Boom k kudos Received Premium Member join:2007-01-29 Toronto, ON	Teddy Boom to nitzguy Premium Member 2012-Oct-20 12:33 pm to nitzguy said by nitzguy: The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able to offer those kinds of speeds without some huge pipe between Rogers (or what they call the Red network) and Start themselves... I think the core of the problem is cost. Once Start is measuring usage in The Red Zone, I think we'll probably see faster speeds. Until then, they just can't afford to let a customer saturate a 60 or 75mbit connection, that customer would cost the ISP ~$1000/month! Ya, that does translate into a capacity thing too, but I think the cost is the primary issue. That said, CIK Telecom does advertise a 75mbit package. I don't know anybody who has it, I don't know if I believe them, but it is listed on their website...
	actions · 2012-Oct-20 12:33 pm ·
rocca Start.ca Premium Member join:2008-11-16 London, ON	rocca to damir52 Premium Member 2012-Oct-20 12:41 pm to damir52 said by damir52: said by nitzguy: The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able ... ... maybe rocca can tell us if start is able to offer higher speeds or not, i would like to know that as well Yes we're able to and we have the capacity, the issue is simply economics. We are currently waiting a decision from the CRTC, likely near the end of the year, on 2012-703 which may adjust the rates we pay for capacity. At the current tariffed capacity rates (which are about ten times more than the retail transport rate from the same carriers) it just isn't viable to offer 75Mbps when the cost of providing that service can exceed $1,000 per customer. If those capacity rates come down to even close to where they should be then you'll quickly see an array of new options from us.
	actions · 2012-Oct-20 12:41 pm ·
nitzguy Premium Member join:2002-07-11 Sudbury, ON	nitzguy Premium Member 2012-Oct-21 1:59 am said by rocca: said by damir52: said by nitzguy: The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able ... ... maybe rocca can tell us if start is able to offer higher speeds or not, i would like to know that as well Yes we're able to and we have the capacity, the issue is simply economics. We are currently waiting a decision from the CRTC, likely near the end of the year, on 2012-703 which may adjust the rates we pay for capacity. At the current tariffed capacity rates (which are about ten times more than the retail transport rate from the same carriers) it just isn't viable to offer 75Mbps when the cost of providing that service can exceed $1,000 per customer. If those capacity rates come down to even close to where they should be then you'll quickly see an array of new options from us. I did say economics after that, specifically "ROI"...aka Return on Investment, just so I wasn't misquoted....you're a business, you're in it to return profit to the shareholders....Any person who's watched Wall Street the original 1987 should know that . In regards to Cogeco, they also have a small footprint on the mountain Between Upper Wellington and Upper Wentworth up to Mohawk (south side of Mohawk only). Also, Upper Stoney Creek is Cogeco...basically anything East of the Redhill Creek Parkway...and anything west of Upper Paradise I believe, aka Ancaster.... I'm shocked that Source aka Southmount is still around, I expected them to sell ages ago...
	actions · 2012-Oct-21 1:59 am ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-21 9:46 am said by nitzguy: In regards to Cogeco, they also have a small footprint on the mountain Between Upper Wellington and Upper Wentworth up to Mohawk (south side of Mohawk only). Shaw also has a (very) small footprint on in lower Hamilton in and around Barton and Woodward.
	actions · 2012-Oct-21 9:46 am ·
El Quintron Cancel Culture Ambassador Premium Member join:2008-04-28 Tronna	El Quintron Premium Member 2012-Oct-21 1:37 pm said by Gone: Shaw also has a (very) small footprint on in lower Hamilton in and around Barton and Woodward. Wouldn't this be because they bought Mountain View Cable a year or so ago?
	actions · 2012-Oct-21 1:37 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-21 4:27 pm Yes. Mountain has that small footprint and it went to Shaw when they sold.
	actions · 2012-Oct-21 4:27 pm ·
nitzguy Premium Member join:2002-07-11 Sudbury, ON	nitzguy to Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-21 6:09 pm to Gone said by Gone: said by nitzguy: In regards to Cogeco, they also have a small footprint on the mountain Between Upper Wellington and Upper Wentworth up to Mohawk (south side of Mohawk only). Shaw also has a (very) small footprint on in lower Hamilton in and around Barton and Woodward. They sure do...I remember a small debate with a customer who was moving into that area and he insisted that Cogeco was there, while my database insisted that it was not serviceable and that it was a mountain cable area... Its a very weird part to have cable service....I wonder how that all came to be.
	actions · 2012-Oct-21 6:09 pm ·
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON	Gone Premium Member 2012-Oct-21 10:11 pm Could have been a contract with one specific developer to develop one specific neighbourhood that never extended beyond that back in the 50s or whenever that area was built. Hamilton had like five or six different cable companies at any given point in the past, and I believe that part of the city was the bigger border between Maclean-Hunter and Western Coax.
	actions · 2012-Oct-21 10:11 pm ·

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This is a sub-selection from Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?