Topic 'Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?' in forum 'Canadian Broadband' - dslreports.com

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 09 Nov 2012 09:26:25 EDT

mlerner posted : And I would bet the non-aggregated links are charged similar to their business fibre.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Thu, 08 Nov 2012 22:09:56 EDT

sbrook posted : I'm not sure you will, Non-aggregated POI links for example are separate contracts between ROgers and the TPIAs.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:56:29 EDT

Guspaz posted : The prices for those contracts, though, can be found in various CRTC documents. Somewhere on their labyrinthine site.
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Thu, 08 Nov 2012 09:36:39 EDT

sbrook posted : You won't find them. They are in a contract between the TPIAs and Rogers ... with the guidance of assorted CRTC orders.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Thu, 08 Nov 2012 08:54:16 EDT

tparvais posted : Hi

do you know where Can I find technical & product specs of cable wholesale services offerred by Rogers and/or videotron ?

Looking for them, but can't find

Thank you

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:11:26 EDT

Gone posted : Could have been a contract with one specific developer to develop one specific neighbourhood that never extended beyond that back in the 50s or whenever that area was built. Hamilton had like five or six different cable companies at any given point in the past, and I believe that part of the city was the bigger border between Maclean-Hunter and Western Coax.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 18:09:01 EDT

nitzguy posted :

said by Gone:

said by nitzguy:

In regards to Cogeco, they also have a small footprint on the mountain :) Between Upper Wellington and Upper Wentworth up to Mohawk (south side of Mohawk only).

Shaw also has a (very) small footprint on in lower Hamilton in and around Barton and Woodward.

They sure do...I remember a small debate with a customer who was moving into that area and he insisted that Cogeco was there, while my database insisted that it was not serviceable and that it was a mountain cable area...

:)

Its a very weird part to have cable service....I wonder how that all came to be.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 16:27:49 EDT

Gone posted : Yes. Mountain has that small footprint and it went to Shaw when they sold.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 13:37:27 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Gone:

Shaw also has a (very) small footprint on in lower Hamilton in and around Barton and Woodward.

Wouldn't this be because they bought Mountain View Cable a year or so ago?
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 09:46:33 EDT

Gone posted :

said by nitzguy:

In regards to Cogeco, they also have a small footprint on the mountain :) Between Upper Wellington and Upper Wentworth up to Mohawk (south side of Mohawk only).

Shaw also has a (very) small footprint on in lower Hamilton in and around Barton and Woodward.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sun, 21 Oct 2012 01:59:06 EDT

nitzguy posted :

said by rocca:

said by damir:

said by nitzguy:

The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able ...

... maybe rocca can tell us if start is able to offer higher speeds or not, i would like to know that as well :)

Yes we're able to and we have the capacity, the issue is simply economics.

We are currently waiting a decision from the CRTC, likely near the end of the year, on 2012-703 which may adjust the rates we pay for capacity. At the current tariffed capacity rates (which are about ten times more than the retail transport rate from the same carriers) it just isn't viable to offer 75Mbps when the cost of providing that service can exceed $1,000 per customer. If those capacity rates come down to even close to where they should be then you'll quickly see an array of new options from us.

I did say economics after that, specifically "ROI"...aka Return on Investment, just so I wasn't misquoted....you're a business, you're in it to return profit to the shareholders....Any person who's watched Wall Street the original 1987 should know that :).

In regards to Cogeco, they also have a small footprint on the mountain :) Between Upper Wellington and Upper Wentworth up to Mohawk (south side of Mohawk only).

Also, Upper Stoney Creek is Cogeco...basically anything East of the Redhill Creek Parkway...and anything west of Upper Paradise I believe, aka Ancaster....

I'm shocked that Source aka Southmount is still around, I expected them to sell ages ago...

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:23:54 EDT

zacron posted : LOLz

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 13:13:36 EDT

Gone posted : Mountain no longer exists. It's now Shaw. The investment to do TPIA in the north mountain in Hamilton, Binbrook, Caledonia, Mount Hope, Dunville and Haggersville probably isn't worth the return.

It'd be even worse for Source, which is the south mountain in Hamilton and that's pretty much it.

The good thing is that both Source and Shaw offer reasonable Internet packages with unlimited transfer options available. The same cannot be said for the poor bastards in lower Hamilton who have Cogeco retail service.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 12:57:39 EDT

zacron posted : Would anyone consider TPIAing SHAW/Source/Mountain Cablevision in Hamilton, ON?

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 12:41:35 EDT

rocca posted :

said by damir:

said by nitzguy:

The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able ...

... maybe rocca can tell us if start is able to offer higher speeds or not, i would like to know that as well :)

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 12:33:55 EDT

Teddy Boom posted :

said by nitzguy:

The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able to offer those kinds of speeds without some huge pipe between Rogers (or what they call the Red network) and Start themselves...

I think the core of the problem is cost. Once Start is measuring usage in The Red Zone, I think we'll probably see faster speeds. Until then, they just can't afford to let a customer saturate a 60 or 75mbit connection, that customer would cost the ISP ~$1000/month! Ya, that does translate into a capacity thing too, but I think the cost is the primary issue.

That said, CIK Telecom does advertise a 75mbit package. I don't know anybody who has it, I don't know if I believe them, but it is listed on their website...
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:44:13 EDT

Gone posted :

said by nitzguy:

Eastlink doesn't look profitable to the TPIAs for a simple reason...competition.

Actually there have been numerous applications made to the CRTC to force Eastlink into TPIA. In each situation the requests have been denied due to Eastlink claiming technical reasons that prevent them from doing TPIA.

The last filing I read, and there could be others more recent, was that Teksavvy was working on an agreement "resell" Eastlink service in Halifax in the interim until a method to due proper TPIA is available.

If ISP's didn't want to do TPIA on Eastlink for whatever reasons you claim, they sure seem to be fighting for access to it and are even doing things to try to get their name out there for when it is :)

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:08:48 EDT

damir posted :

said by nitzguy:

... maybe rocca can tell us if start is able to offer higher speeds or not, i would like to know that as well :)
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:04:54 EDT

nitzguy posted :

said by Gone:

There's Eastlink, but they claim that they had technical reasons for not offering TPIA and so far the CRTC hasn't forced them into doing it. If they were part of the TPIA/GAS game, they would be the smallest of the "significant" ones, not Cogeco.

Eastlink doesn't look profitable to the TPIAs for a simple reason...competition. Unlike all the other ISPs it seems out there, maybe minus Shaw, they are the most competitive...their 20mbit package here in Sudbury, unlimited....no cap...so there's not much room to manuver on distinction between different services...if someone came to you and said I can offer you 20mbit unlimited, no cap for $63/month...modem rental included...if I look at TSI's pricing for 18mbit @ unlimited...its $55/month...so again I'm figuring Eastlink just doesn't provide an ROI for Teksavvy to offer anything useful...

The reason why TPIAs like Start don't offer the faster service is a sheer capacity issue. They probably don't have the capacity to be able to offer those kinds of speeds without some huge pipe between Rogers (or what they call the Red network) and Start themselves...

TSI is in the same boat...hence why they always ran into congestion issues...imagine if they had offered faster speed tiers...its just not a good ROI for TSI either, I mean they are in business after all.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 00:28:56 EDT

sbrook posted : A non-aggregated POI (point of interconnect) is where the TPIA picks off their customers signals at individual Rogers head ends and forwards them to their facility on their own dedicated lines.

An aggregated POI is where Rogers (or other ISP) routes ALL TPIA traffic from all head ends to a central location where it is separated and forwarded to the TPIAs own facility.

So, non aggregated = lots of connections to lots of places.
Aggregatesd = 1 connection to 1 place to carry data from lots of places.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:16:15 EDT

yyzlhr posted : Excuse my ignorance. What's the difference between an aggregate and non aggregate POI?

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 19:47:08 EDT

anon posted : On. Vidéotron tpia speeds up go 120 Mbps are available
But many isps choose not to use it, especially those who want to offer unlimited service.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 18:04:34 EDT

Gone posted : There's Eastlink, but they claim that they had technical reasons for not offering TPIA and so far the CRTC hasn't forced them into doing it. If they were part of the TPIA/GAS game, they would be the smallest of the "significant" ones, not Cogeco.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:53:25 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Gone:

They aren't the smallest incumbent, but they are the smallest of the "significant" ones.

That's an accurate qualifier, other incumbents are usually local players, and you paraphrased what I meant anyway.
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:48:52 EDT

Gone posted : They aren't the smallest incumbent, but they are the smallest of the "significant" ones.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:44:25 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Gone:

said by El Quintron:

I'm wondering why it got held up for so long as well...

Growth can be just as much a curse as it can be a blessing.

True, if I'm correctly assuming the Cogeco is the smallest of the incumbents, Teksavvy might be someone they're a little afraid of.
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:34:51 EDT

Gone posted :

said by El Quintron:

I'm wondering why it got held up for so long as well...

Growth can be just as much a curse as it can be a blessing.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:56:29 EDT

Guspaz posted : To clarify:

- DOCSIS 3 is available and covered under TPIA, and some wholesalers already offer it

- Any wholesale ISP not offering the full set of speed tiers is doing so for business reasons.

- As an example, Rogers' higher speeds require the new aggregated interconnection style, and an ISP that is using the old interconnection style would face significant costs and disruption to switch over.
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:54:32 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Gone:

That should be interesting, but they've had a deal "in the works" ever since they got into TPIA with Rogers. I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm wondering why it got held up for so long as well...
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Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:52:31 EDT

Gone posted :

said by elwoodblues:

Marc has alluded that a Teksavvy/Cogeco deal is in the works.

That should be interesting, but they've had a deal "in the works" ever since they got into TPIA with Rogers. I'll believe it when I see it.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:53:21 EDT

elwoodblues posted : Marc has alluded that a Teksavvy/Cogeco deal is in the works.

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:18:30 EDT

sbrook posted : TPIAs do use D3 in a limited way. But the CRTC hasn't twisted the incumbents arms hard enough to offer that to the TPIAs. The same problem existed with DSL (and to some extent, still does).

Re: Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:17:15 EDT

Gone posted : Teksavvy is using the non-aggregate POIs throughout Rogers territory. The new speed tiers aren't available on them.

Start uses the aggregate POIs for Cogeco and Start and has the capability of offering DOCSIS 3 speeds. The fastest they offer is 30 in Cogeco territory and 32 in Rogersland. They have the capability of offering 75 on Rogers and 50 (soon to be 70 if the speed tests are to believed) on Cogeco, but they don't do it - yet.

Why doesn't TPIA include DOCSIS 3?

Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:08:50 EDT

elconcho posted : If the idea of TPIA is fair ISP competition within Canada, why aren't DOCSIS 3 speeds currently available from Rogers available from any TPIA ISP like Teksavvy?

I would love to go with Teksavvy or equivalent, but 28mbits just doesn't cut it after having 80mbits+ from Rogers for over a year.