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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

NO-FLY LIST Strands man on Island in Hawaii

you have to read the entire article..I find it amazing.

JOINT BASE PEARL HARBOR-HICKAM, Hawaii (AP) -- Hawaii is a paradise for most visitors. But it was Wade Hicks Jr.'s prison for five days.

The 34-year-old from Gulfport, Miss., was stranded in the islands this week after being told he was on the FBI's no-fly list during a layover for a military flight from California to Japan.

The episode left Hicks scrambling to figure out how he'd get home from Hawaii without being able to fly. Then he was abruptly removed from the list on Thursday with no explanation.

It also raised questions beyond how he landed on the list: How could someone on a list intelligence officials use to inform counterterrorism investigations successfully fly standby on an Air Force flight?

Hicks said he was traveling to visit his wife, a U.S. Navy lieutenant who's deployed in Japan. He hitched a ride on the military flight as is common for military dependents, who are allowed to fly on scheduled routes when there's room.

»hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/···19-20-58
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
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Mullica Hill, NJ
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this is when it would be great for a commanding officer at the military base at pearl to simply tell the guy at the airport that "He flies under authorization of the US Navy, Don't like it then tell customs and the FBI to take it up with the pentagon."
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StuartMW
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Galt's Gulch
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reply to Name Game

Must of pissed someone off. Maybe he didn't let a TSA agent juggle his junk or sniff his drink.

I guess there are worse places to be stranded than Hawaii.
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Secyurityet

join:2012-01-07
untied state

1 recommendation

reply to Name Game

I'm guessing one of his wife's ex-boyfriends now works for TSA, saw him on a pax list, and decided to take a little revenge...



Blackbird
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reply to Name Game

quote:
A spokesman for Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's office said passengers who fly standby on military flights are screened against the FBI's list only on international flights. ...
My guess is that he'd been on the list for a while, but didn't get blocked in California since the AF flight to Hawaii was "domestic". The military flight from Hawaii to Japan would have been "international," and that's when he hit the no-fly wall.
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

1 recommendation

mystery to me is why he is even on the list...must be more to this story than meets the eye. You don't get on that list with all the right info included just because to tear off those mattress tag. And if all the sudden they give you the go ahead..I would hope they would also tell the guy why he was listed in the first place.



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to Name Game

No Fly List info

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List

Queens man trapped in Germany because of no-fly list, says Council on American-Islamic Relations
The Council on American-Islamic Relations’ New York Chapter has sent a strongly worded letter to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the U.S. Customs and Border Protection asking that New Yorker Samir Suljovic be allowed to fly home to Queens, N.Y., from Germany.

»www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa···.1185973

"The government does not disperse who is on the no-fly list for very important security reasons,” a spokesman for the FBI’s terrorist screening center told the Daily News. “I cannot comment specifically on any individuals. But I can tell you that there are very few American citizens on the no-fly list – approximately 500 or so.”

The no-fly list contains approximately 20,000 names, according to the FBI spokesman.

“99.7 percent of the people who file complaints about the no-fly list,” he continued, “it turns out it has nothing to do with the no-fly list at all.”

'Am I on the 'No Fly' List?'—and other FAQs to the FBI

Days ago in Portland, Oregon, a federal attorney answered questions posed by Judge Alex Kozinski in a hearing about the government's classified watch lists for suspected terrorists, like the one colloquially referred to as the No Fly List. The ACLU has challenged the list on behalf of clients who think they're on it for reasons unknown to them and would like the chance to demonstrate they don't belong there. The problem? Federal authorities have set up a Kafkaesque system where you never get to know anything about why you're denied permission to fly.

Audio from oral arguments is now posted. Ben Wizner, the Director of the ACLU's Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project, summarizes a particularly troubling exchange from the hearing:

»www.theatlantic.com/national/arc···/257316/
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StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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reply to Name Game

said by Name Game:

mystery to me is why he is even on the list...

And that's the core issue. The NFL is secret. The criteria for being put on it are secret. Is it computer generated? Does a human review it? Who knows.

In short if you get on that list you're presumed guilty and are not allowed to fly. You can try and appeal and maybe you'll eventually be removed (5-days for this guy seems very "quick"). It doesn't matter if you've cleared all security checks at the airport you're persona non grata until some nameless bureaucrat says otherwise. You have zero rights peon!
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
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also how was he on that list if he was able to clear the military background checks to fly with his wife on the military paid flight.
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scelli
Native New Yorker
Premium
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FLOT/FEBA
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said by Kearnstd:

also how was he on that list if he was able to clear the military background checks to fly with his wife on the military paid flight.

Background checks of the type I believe you may be referring to (such as a NAC required for all basic security clearances issued to military individuals due to their particular job speciality) normally is not necessary to fly space available flights.

Just FYI: Active duty personnel as well as their dependents (along with certain others) are eligible for Space-A travel depending on availability. That can amount to a lot of folks and a long, long waiting list to get a hop with the friendly skies of Uncle Sam that is headed even remotely close to your final destination.
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jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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Scottsdale, AZ
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2 recommendations

reply to StuartMW

"Is it computer generated? Does a human review it?" Don't humans program the computer in the first place? A horrible case of garbage in, garbage out.



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

17 Oct 2012

What does it take to get your name on the no-fly list in America? Apparently you only need to be classified as a “prepper.”
When 34-year-old U.S. citizen and Mississippi resident Wade Hicks boarded a military flight to visit his wife, a Navy lieutenant stationed in Okinawa, Japan, he did not think it would be a one-way trip.
Stopping off in Hawaii to refuel, upon reboarding the plane, Hicks was quickly escorted back off again by armed guards.
He was then taken to a secure interrogation room where Hicks was informed he would not be flying anywhere because he turned up on the no-fly list.
Hicks has since been stranded on the island state without a way home.
As seen below in a bombshell double interview on Infowars Nightly News, private investigator and founder of the Northeast Intelligence Network Douglas Hagmann revealed that Hicks not only passed through TSA screening at his original departure point in San Francisco, but he has also passed a criminal background check and an FBI screening for an enhanced concealed carry permit in his home state.
In addition, Hicks holds a TWIC card, or Transportation Worker Identification Credential, granted by none other than the TSA. Hicks has also held classified clearances as a defense contractor for the U.S. military. His passport is valid and has not been revoked.
What was it Hicks did, then, to be added to the U.S. government’s no-fly list maintained by the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center?
“I asked [Hicks] ‘Could you have been mistaken for a person with the same surname?’” Hagmann said. “The people who were acting on behalf of the TSA and DHS had told him his social security number, his date of birth, his name, and they said, ‘No, there is no mistake, this is you, you’re on this no-fly list.’”
After being asked to get off the plane, “It started out like something fairly routine,” Hicks said in his interview with Infowars. “About 15-20 minutes later, two heavily armed Air Force security forces guys showed up.”
It was then Hicks was told he would not be flying anywhere. There is no indication as to why Hicks was able to first fly from San Francisco to Hawaii without being notified he was supposedly on the list.
Seemingly the only “crime” Hicks has committed that would end in revocation of his ability to fly is his affiliation with the Mississippi Preparedness Project, a prepper organization. Although prepping is not illegal, the FBI has been cracking down on preppers for awhile now, with everything from spying on people who visit prepper websites to straight up stripping preppers of their Second Amendment rights.

Hicks revealed to Infowars that a supposed disabled veteran claiming to be a Navy Seal had joined his prepper group earlier in the year, but Hicks felt the man’s story seemed suspicious.
Through a Freedom of Information Act request, Hicks learned the man had never been in the military even though he possessed an authentic military ID.
Sometime later while out driving, Hicks saw the man’s car and ended up tailing him to a Mississippi Department of Homeland Security branch office where the man parked his car.
When asked if he thought his affiliation with a prepper group caused him to get detained, Hicks responded, “If it does, that’s a pretty sad situation.”
In the meantime, Hicks has contacted his Senator, and he has received a call back that the Senator’s office is currently working to help him get home.

»theintelhub.com/2012/10/17/break···-hawaii/
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StuartMW
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1 recommendation

BTW I think the "500 US Citizens" figure quoted above is pure BS. Of course there's no way for any of us to know for sure but I've read numerous accounts of ordinary people (and children) being on the list.
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scelli
Native New Yorker
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reply to Name Game

One has to feel for his Navy Lieutenant wife on Oki: Her local command there is probably grilling the officer regarding hubby and any knowledge she might possess.
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StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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reply to Name Game

What does it take to get your name on the no-fly list in America? Apparently you only need to be classified as a “prepper.”

That wouldn't shock me. Preppers are obviously "right-wing extremists".

Napolitano defends report on right-wing extremist groups
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Blackbird
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reply to Name Game

It's fascinating to ponder who of the Signers and Founders would probably be on such " watch lists" were those folks still alive today. I'd venture to say just about all of them... they weren't exactly passive conformists.
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Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
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They would all be, as all were complicit in the very act of writing the Constitution.

'Traitors', all of them.
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PX Eliezer7
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

BTW I think the "500 US Citizens" figure quoted above is pure BS. Of course there's no way for any of us to know for sure but I've read numerous accounts of ordinary people (and children) being on the list.

US Senator Ted Kennedy was put on the list in 2004.

One of the most powerful men in America.

It took him 3 weeks to get off!

You probably don't believe me, so here it is from the Washington Post:

»www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar···g19.html


Blackbird
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said by PX Eliezer7:

... US Senator Ted Kennedy was put on the list in 2004. ... You probably don't believe me, so here it is from the Washington Post: »www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar···g19.html

quote:
Kennedy's description yesterday (19 Aug 2004) of his air-travel troubles -- mentioned during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on the 9/11 commission's recommendations -- renewed questions about the quality and effectiveness of the no-fly list.
Here we are 8 years later, and one has to question what has really changed about the quality and effectiveness of the list - or lack thereof... names seem to appear and disappear from the list almost at random, for no stated reason and with no warning to innocent victims.
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Juggernaut
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One would think they could visit a Gov location, and with proper ID, find out if they indeed on the list.

Imagine booking a flight overseas for a holiday, only to get refused at the terminal? What then?
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to PX Eliezer7

There is some unclarity as to the name appearing on the watch list in the Kennedy incident. The Washington Post reports that “A senior administration official who spoke on condition he not be identified said Kennedy was stopped because the name ‘T. Kennedy’ has been used as an alias by someone on the list of terrorist suspects.” A number of media outlets carried the same version of the story.
Of course, “Ted” Kennedy’s real first name is Edward, and would appear as such on any ticket or identification documents, so why the senator’s name should set off alarms, even if a ‘T. Kennedy’ appeared on a “no fly” list, is a mystery that has not been explained.
The New York Times reports a different story: “The alias used by the suspected terrorist on the watch list was Edward Kennedy, said David Smith, a spokesman for the senator, who uses his full name, with a middle initial, of Edward M. Kennedy.”

»www.wsws.org/articles/2004/aug20···21.shtml
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AVD
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Onion, NJ
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

guess there are worse places to be stranded than Hawaii.

this
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Juggernaut
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Only if he was entitled to base accommodations, and the mess. Being a howlie in Hawaii paying for hotels and meals can't be cheap.
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AVD
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you can sleep on the beach if you have to, it ain't canada.
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Juggernaut
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I'll bet that's against the law. Vagrancy?



Anav
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reply to Name Game

I would imagine the consequence of this event is straightforward. All military pax flights from henceforth will be checked against the no fly list. Sounds like a loophole that needs to be closed. Unfortunately there is no accountability process to determine how and why he was on the list. IF it was legitimate then no worries, if it was not legitimate then there should be some heads that roll. These assignments need to be done with more care at least seemingly.
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AVD
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said by Anav:

IF it was legitimate then no worries, if it was not legitimate then there should be some heads that roll.

you mean the other way around. If he is genuinely on the no-fly list; then there is a big loophole. You don't want suspected terrorists to be close to a cockpit of a big plane over a major city.
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Secyurityet

join:2012-01-07
untied state

1 recommendation

reply to Anav

said by Anav:

I would imagine the consequence of this event is straightforward. All military pax flights from henceforth will be checked against the no fly list. Sounds like a loophole that needs to be closed.

You have to remember that ID card holders are "pre-screened" and only get onto US base facilities by having a military affiliation or connection. Yeah, it's a potential threat vector, but chances are someone who's on a no-fly list will have a hard time developing that connection.
said by Anav:

Unfortunately there is no accountability process to determine how and why he was on the list. IF it was legitimate then no worries, if it was not legitimate then there should be some heads that roll. These assignments need to be done with more care at least seemingly.

Google his name and I think it will become obvious that some bureaucrat decided to "punish" him for his activism. It's getting so you can't express an opinion or take some common sense disaster preparations without falling under someone's microscope these days.


StuartMW
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said by Secyurityet:

Google his name and I think it will become obvious that some bureaucrat decided to "punish" him for his activism. It's getting so you can't express an opinion or take some common sense disaster preparations without falling under someone's microscope these days.

+1
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Cthen

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reply to Name Game

I have supplies in my basement in the event of a disaster. I also have the skills\tools needed to survive if communications go down and if utilities go down as well in just such an event.

I suppose I am the no-fly list now? Is that because the guberment is pissed that I won't die while waiting for them to come help?
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