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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to koira

Re: Gasoline Prices Below 99 Cents/Litre By Christmas

My uncle had - and may still have (haven't seen him for a while) an old pre-TDI diesel Golf with half a million miles on it.

The motor mounts were shot and the thing shook like a beast in cold weather, but the thing ran and the car around it was still in decent shape.

That's the great thing about a diesel. They're tanks.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
yea...and speaking of Hurricane Sandy, i read an interesting article that says to be weary of used cars in a few months, as many flooded cars will be shuffled off to unsuspecting buyers...that alone may help drive new car sales (people may not want to take a chance).

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by dirtyjeffer:

yea...and speaking of Hurricane Sandy, i read an interesting article that says to be weary of used cars in a few months, as many flooded cars will be shuffled off to unsuspecting buyers...that alone may help drive new car sales (people may not want to take a chance).

Flooded cars can't be imported into Canada legally.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

well, Mohamed is free to his opinion, however, i have already showed you evidence that that is not the case.

That's Mohamed Bouchama who is Executive Director of the Automobile Consumer Coalition by the way... Not just some "guy"...


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
said by vue666:

said by dirtyjeffer:

well, Mohamed is free to his opinion, however, i have already showed you evidence that that is not the case.

That's Mohamed Bouchama who is Executive Director of the Automobile Consumer Coalition by the way... Not just some "guy"...

ya well I'm the CEO of the Canadian association of dog walkers as well as senior vice president of maple leaf takers. And I'm an accomplished expert on coiling orange , blue and black extension cords. And I eat bacon every Sunday morning. So I have the qualifications to back my opinion. Capice?


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
JD Powers also gives VW cars low reliability ratings...

2009 VW Jetta

»autos.jdpower.com/research/Volks···ndex.htm

2010 VW Jetta

»autos.jdpower.com/research/Volks···ndex.htm

2009 VW Passat
»autos.jdpower.com/research/Volks···ings.htm

Here's a Fusion for comparison...

2010 Fusion

»autos.jdpower.com/research/Ford/···ndex.htm

Feel free to check other makes & models...

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

Flooded cars can't be imported into Canada legally.

Yes they can be imported, as parts-only vehicles. A number of them end up with a new VIN taken from a salvage (non-flood) car though and they get registered that way.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Xstar_Lumini
Click for full size
Vehicle brands rankings by JD Powers & Associates...

Sorry but VW is near the bottom....


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Xstar_Lumini
The VW DSG transmission requires trans fluid & filter replacement every 40,000 miles.

Cost is approx $350.00 to 600 at the dealer...

»news.consumerreports.org/cars/20···sts.html

quote:
»www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f19/···g-10645/

for no way of knowing, isn't something indicated in the VIN that shows the transmission? Dealer fail there.

I think my one dealership is trying to pad the bill but I have not cross-referenced with the owner's manual yet as I am only at 13K on my 2011.

* Change Oil Filter
* Install Synthetic Oil
* Rotate Tires/Check Oil Pressure
* Replace Air Filter/Inspect Pollen Filter
* Inspect Brake System
* Replace Brake Fluid
* Check and Lube Door Straps
* Inspect Suspension and Drive Shafts
* Check OBD for trouble codes
* Check Auto Transmission Fluid
* Check Operation of Auto Shift Lock System
* Inspect Timing Belt and Drive Belt Tension
* Inspect Cooling System Operation
* Replace Diesel Fuel Filter
====
$594.99

*** ADD Service DSG Transmission ***
$419.99

Total: $1,014.98


A backyard mechanic can do it but they will require some special equipment...

quote:
»news.consumerreports.org/cars/20···sts.html

After reading forums such as VWvortex and TDIclub, I learned that to change the transmission oil and filter I had to get a special filler tube and a computer scan tool to recalibrate. These two pieces of equipment cost around $250, plus the cost of the fluid and filter. The dealer quoted $350 for the transmission oil and filter and $480 for the complete service, so I was left asking myself: "Where is the financial incentive of having this energy-saving transmission and even the diesel?" Doing a quick calculation the savings I would have achieved over a gasoline-powered car getting 28 mpg have just been cut in about half due to the cost of the transmission fluid change. The DSG transmission is only adding a small percent fuel economy gain compared to a regular automatic.


OEM VW AUDI VAG DSG FLUID CHANGE SERVICE KIT WITH FILLING TOOL VAS6262A - $318

»www.amazon.com/FLUID-CHANGE-SERV···06CNK2RK

Hell I changed the trans fluid and filter in my Imapala and I only needed to purchase a filter, trans fluid and a new gasket for the trans pan... In all it only cost about $40 to 50 bucks...


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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N of 49th
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reply to Xstar_Lumini
I'm not sure what the talk about a transmission has to do with the cost of gas, but anyway..........

More and more cars are going to single/dual clutch automated manuals or CVTs, so the days of a 'simple' transmission service are numbered. The Ford Focus or most small Nissans are examples of this.
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Even Hyundai is moving to dual clutch transmissions, though last I heard their service interval is quite a bit more than the 40,000 interval of the VWs.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

so the days of a 'simple' transmission service are numbered.

Can you provide a link or is that just your opinion?

CVT type trannys are not something new... Snowmobiles have been using similar belt type trannys for a while...


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

Flooded cars can't be imported into Canada legally.

of course not...but shady car dealers don't do things legally.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

1 recommendation

reply to vue666
said by vue666:

That's Mohamed Bouchama who is Executive Director of the Automobile Consumer Coalition by the way... Not just some "guy"...

i don't care who he is...i already showed evidence of price comparisons for 5 different brands (domestic and import) and VW was only the most expensive on 2 of the 5 examples, and in one of those examples the difference was marginal.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

CVT type trannys are not something new... Snowmobiles have been using similar belt type trannys for a while...

What does that have to do with their maintainence requirements in automobile?


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

The VW DSG transmission requires trans fluid & filter replacement every 40,000 miles.

Cost is approx $350.00 to 600 at the dealer...

true, however; a DSG transmission is not a conventional automatic transmission...it is a hydraulic (wet system) twin clutch automatic...while it is more complicated and requires a "costly" fluid change (i think VW Canada recommended 60,000 or 80,000kms, i can't remember which, but it was definitely one of them), it also saves fuel over a conventional automatic...as well, most DSG transmissions offer better fuel economy than conventional manual transmissions as well...VWs DSG transmission is direct drive like a conventional automatic, but the shifting is done automatically using hydraulic actuators that engage/disengage clutches mounted on both ends of the gearbox (inside)...so, when you are in 1st gear, 2nd gear is already "engaged", but the clutch isn't...when it is time to shift to 2nd gear, it simply releases 1st gear and activates the opposite clutch on the 2nd gear...the transmission then gets 3rd gear ready to use...this whole process can switch gears in something like 5ms...since there is no torque converter, you don't get that (approximately) 15% efficiency loss through the transmission and since the shifting is done automatically, it can always shift in the most optimal manner (performance or fuel economy), depending on how you are driving...this type of sophistication is more complex, but it is very neat...perhaps the efficiency savings may recoup $300 in fuel savings over the 4 years between fluid changes, cutting the net cost for the change in half.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
Well from the article I quoted above from news.consumerreports.org

quote:
The DSG transmission is only adding a small percent fuel economy gain compared to a regular automatic.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

said by Kardinal:

so the days of a 'simple' transmission service are numbered.

Can you provide a link or is that just your opinion?

CVT type trannys are not something new... Snowmobiles have been using similar belt type trannys for a while...

belt type CVT transmissions can not currently handle higher torque/HP outputs of some of the engines used in some applications today...i think seeing a belt type CVT in any vehicle using more than 300HP/300Tq is currently either rare or non-existent due to belt failure...that doesn't mean that won't be the case in the future, but don't expect to see any belt driven CVT transmissions in any high powered automobiles like sports cars or trucks...that is why they are mostly used on lower powered cars (often hybrids or smaller cars)...Nissan is likely one of the largest CVT user out there, and they recently dropped their CVT warranty from 10 years to 5 years...perhaps that tells you something about them?...CVTs are good for fuel efficiency, are lightweight, relatively simple and inexpensive...that is why auto companies like them.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Somewhere in
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Reviews:
·VMedia
said by dirtyjeffer:

Nissan is likely one of the largest CVT user out there, and they recently dropped their CVT warranty from 10 years to 5 years...perhaps that tells you something about them?..

Yeah it's called reducing the exposure and thus the warranty liability you have to carry on the books. You look more profitable in a shorter term.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

Well from the article I quoted above from news.consumerreports.org

quote:
The DSG transmission is only adding a small percent fuel economy gain compared to a regular automatic.

when looking at »www.fueleconomy.gov and comparing a 2012 VW Golf GTI with its 2.0L turbo 4 cylinder engine and a 6speed DSG automatic, 6 speed Manual and a 2012 Saab 9-3 Sport Combi with its 2.0L turbo 4 cylinder engine and automatic transmission, here are the results:

VW GTI - DSG - 27mpg
VW GTI - 6sp Manual - 25mpg
Saab - 6sp auto - 22mpg

i know it may be tough to compare the Saab and VW, but i tried to find two vehicles with a 2.0L turbo engine and specifically one with a conventional automatic transmission...in this example, the VW gets 5 mpg better fuel economy over the Saab which has a similar sized engine, and it even beats its manual counterpart by 2 mpg...in almost every example, a DSG automatic will outperform any manual transmission and conventional automatic transmission...its drawback is the fluid change, but that is the cost of having a sophisticated transmission that maximizes performance and fuel economy...spend less on maintenance in another brand with a conventional automatic and spend more in gas instead.

in the above example (DSG to auto), that is 23% improvement in fuel economy...i would consider that to be better than a "small improvement"...again, i know it is difficult to compare the 9-3 to a GTI, but feel free to compare other vehicles on that site if you can think of other ones instead...even if you gain 10%, that means if you spend $40/week on gas, that $4 saved per week, times 52 weeks, times 4 years is $832...more than enough to pay for the DSG fluid change...in the automatic car, you may have to pay for a flush as well (which i did in my Taurus at 120,000 kms, it was $120).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

said by dirtyjeffer:

Nissan is likely one of the largest CVT user out there, and they recently dropped their CVT warranty from 10 years to 5 years...perhaps that tells you something about them?..

Yeah it's called reducing the exposure and thus the warranty liability you have to carry on the books. You look more profitable in a shorter term.

of course...however, are they also telling us they anticipate some heavy repair/warranty bills down the road...if it was only ever 5 years, it wouldn't be a big deal...but to offer 10 years, and then drop it to 5 years certainly raises an eyebrow...sure, it could be trouble free, but if that were the case, why not simply leave it at 10 years??
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to dirtyjeffer
For what it's worth, the biggest draw to a DSG isn't the fuel economy improvement, it's about the improved driving experience.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
And how many cars with DSG transmissions have you owned?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by vue666:

And how many cars with DSG transmissions have you owned?

Aside from a friend who had a Jetta with one, this is the way VW markets the DSG themselves and is easily obtainable by anyone with even the most limited search skills.

Since we're asking questions, how many DSGs have you owned, vue? Any experience with them at all? While we're asking questions, do you even have any experience with CVTs aside from snowmobiles?


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
How can you claim they provide a better driving experience if you've never driven one yourself?

As far as marketing...well that's another story now isn't it... Marketing is all about hype....


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

said by Kardinal:

so the days of a 'simple' transmission service are numbered.

Can you provide a link or is that just your opinion?

CVT type trannys are not something new... Snowmobiles have been using similar belt type trannys for a while...

Whut?

CVTs aren't something new in and of themselves, but they are in cars/trucks, and between them becoming more popular and the increased number of single/dual clutch automated manuals in things like Audi/VW/Ford/Hyundai and CVTs in Nissans etc, the number of vehicles coming with the traditional planetary gear style of transmission is decreasing, and with it the 'simple' transmission services that come with them. CVTs and DSG-style transmissions have more complicated service work (by your own admission, given your detailed info on VW). DSGs are simpler than a CVT, but a CVT will, by their very nature and design, give you better fuel economy due to the infinite number of available ratios, so they both have their place. CVTs are used in a some hybrids and super-economy models of current cars to maximize the fuel economy numbers.

It's an observation, an opinion, whatever....it's based on simple facts of what is being sold these days. Feel free to argue them if you feel you have facts that contradict this.

Izzat bettah?
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

How can you claim they provide a better driving experience if you've never driven one yourself?

Because VWs claim all along has not been about fuel efficiency, it has been about improved driving experience. That's what VW says.

And, considering you haven't driven one either, who are you to say that what VW claims isn't true? At least I've got the word of someone I trust saying that it is an improved driving experience when shifting sequential gears. What do you have, vue?


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

1 edit
I never said it was a better driving experience or not... Just asking what you based your comment on... So it is anecdotal evidence, you base your opinion on the opinion of a friend... That's fine...

However if a friend told me chocolate tasted good I would certainly take his word but I would not base my opinion until I tasted chocolate...

What VW advertises about their DSG trannys or what GM says about their Volt is just that hype. Advertising...

The DSG is a relatively new transmission, and how it will stand up long term compared to older style automatics that have been around a lot longer is unknown...


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by vue666:

The DSG is a relatively new transmission

The dual clutch transmissions - which the DSG is - was designed during WW2, so it's not exactly a new design.

The fact that it was only put in a production vehicle in the early 2000s is of the same relevance to CVTs being introduced at approximately the same time yet being used for other purposes long before.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
said by Gone:

said by vue666:

The DSG is a relatively new transmission

The dual clutch transmissions - which the DSG is - was designed during WW2, so it's not exactly a new design.

The fact that it was only put in a production vehicle in the early 2000s is of the same relevance to CVTs being introduced at approximately the same time yet being used for other purposes long before.

Yes designed by Adolphe Kégresse of France prior to WWII but designed on paper only... Not available in the consumer market until recently... Hence unproven....