 CabalPremium
join:2007-01-21
Austin, TX
 ·Suddenlink
| Wayland 1.0 Officially Released Very exciting!
quote:
Wayland 1.0 along with the reference Weston 1.0 reference compositor were officially released on Monday.
Kristian Høgsberg after developing the project the past four years officially announced version 1.0 for Wayland. As described earlier on Phoronix, Wayland 1.0 doesn't mark the point that Wayland is complete and ready to replace the X11 Server as there's still a lot of work left to do but it marks the point at which there is API/protocol stability in terms of all future releases being backwards-compatible with the Wayland 1.0 release.
»www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n···=MTIxMzA
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 MaxoYour tax dollars at work.Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL | Exciting times are ahead. Of course we will still be using X for a long time, but the groundwork has been laid and made available for consumption to move towards a more modern graphics system.
Edit: Spelling |
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 markofmayhemWhy not now?Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5 | Green Island also released. |
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| reply to Maxo
said by Maxo:
Exciting times are ahead. Of course we will still be using X for a long time, but the groundwork has been laid and made available for consumption to move towards a more modern graphics system.
XDMCP? ? ? ? Didn't think so...
No thanks. X is just fine.
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MaxoYour tax dollars at work.Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL | said by TuxRaiderPen:XDMCP? ? ? ? Didn't think so...
No thanks. X is just fine. said by »lwn.net/Articles/520832/ :What it means, is that we're confident that the
protocol we have now covers the basic features and that we can build
whatever new functionality we need with and on top of 1.0. That v1.0.0 of a software release is not as feature complete as 20+ year old software isn't really a criticism, it's just stating the obvious.
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 firephotoFacts hurtPremium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA | reply to Cabal
And intel video users regain that feeling of great amazing things being almost possible, out there, almost within reach, to conquer the desktop video rendering battle (almost), again after a relative stable period where years passed and things worked pretty good for basic tasks to keep the user base loyal enough. 
Also should we start making bets on how they'll pull the rug out from under Nvidia if they change their drivers to work with Wayland? (and thus stomping on "freedom") 
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MaxoYour tax dollars at work.Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL | said by firephoto:Also should we start making bets on how they'll pull the rug out from under Nvidia if they change their drivers to work with Wayland? (and thus stomping on "freedom") I know you ask the question in jest, but Wayland is under the MIT license. |
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markofmayhemWhy not now?Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to firephoto
said by firephoto:Also should we start making bets on how they'll pull the rug out from under Nvidia if they change their drivers to work with Wayland? (and thus stomping on "freedom")
Place me down for GEM.
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markofmayhemWhy not now?Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to Maxo
said by Maxo:said by firephoto:Also should we start making bets on how they'll pull the rug out from under Nvidia if they change their drivers to work with Wayland? (and thus stomping on "freedom") I know you ask the question in jest, but Wayland is under the MIT license. Wayland only needs the kernel driver, not the X driver. For the proprietary drivers to "work with Wayland", they only need to work with the kernel directly. Nothing needs done to "work with Wayland" like is needed with X, except full Kernel support and communciation which fglrx, nVidia, and psb can not do (due to export_symbols_gpl).
I believe the jest was towards the Kernel devs, not Wayland (?)
Wayland is not really duplicating much work {regarding Xorg}. Where possible, Wayland reuses existing drivers and infrastructure. One of the reasons this project is feasible at all, is that Wayland reuses the DRI drivers, the kernel side GEM scheduler and kernel mode setting. Wayland doesn't have to compete with other projects for drivers and driver developers, it lives within the X.org, mesa and drm community and benefits from all the hardware enablement and driver development happening there.
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firephotoFacts hurtPremium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA | said by markofmayhem:I believe the jest was towards the Kernel devs, not Wayland (?)
Somewhat, they are creating a system based only on the new bits in the kernel that are tailored to dubiously allow only the desired video drivers to hook into the kernel.
Also the outlook for desktop computing is as much a threat to anything as pissed on roadblocks in front of Nivida binary drivers.
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| reply to TuxRaiderPen
Except X sucks where security is concerned. |
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 El QuintronResident Mouth BreatherPremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2
 ·TekSavvy DSL
 ·WIND Mobile
 ·voip.ms
| said by KodiacZiller:Except X sucks where security is concerned. Amongst other things...
I find X to be more than a little counter-intuitive as well, just cause it's the thing I know the most, doesn't mean it isn't ripe for replacement.
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 rexbinaryMod KingPremium
join:2005-01-26
Plano, TX
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Cabal
said by Cabal: quote:
Wayland 1.0 along with the reference Weston 1.0 reference compositor were officially released on Monday.
No way?!
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1 edit | reply to Cabal
And Linux takes one more step out of "The Unix Way". Not quite Unix. Not quite Windows. Incompatible with both. (Also see systemd) |
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 koitsuPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:19 | reply to Cabal
Wikipedia article: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%2···tocol%29
But here's the part that scares the living bejeezus out of me:
quote:
What's different now is that a lot of infrastructure has moved from the X server into the kernel (memory management, command scheduling, mode setting) or libraries (cairo, pixman, freetype, fontconfig, pango etc) and there is very little left that has to happen in a central server process. ... [An X server has] a tremendous amount of functionality that you must support to claim to speak the X protocol, yet nobody will ever use this. ... This includes code tables, glyph rasterization and caching, XLFDs (seriously, XLFDs!) Also, the entire core rendering API that lets you draw stippled lines, polygons, wide arcs and many more state-of-the-1980s style graphics primitives. For many things we've been able to keep the X.org server modern by adding extension such as XRandR, XRender and COMPOSITE ... With Wayland we can move the X server and all its legacy technology to an optional code path. Getting to a point where the X server is a compatibility option instead of the core rendering system will take a while, but we'll never get there if [we] don't plan for it.
It absolutely blows my mind how much stuff in Linux is shoved into kernel space, and for no real justified reason. I'm not trying to start an OS war -- honest folks -- but this is one thing the BSDs do not do. Keeping things in userland is good, and if you need an interface between the userland bits and the kernel, there are many interfaces for that (on the BSDs we tend to use ioctl() the most).
I imagine howardfine  and I have the same opinion here.
As for moving some of the other bits into libraries (also userspace), that's good. Although all of the programs/libraries listed are what I classify as "dependency hell" (especially pango).
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grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1 | I seem to remember Linus saying the same sort of thing that the kernel is too bloated. |
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markofmayhemWhy not now?Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to howardfine
said by howardfine:And Linux takes one more step out of "The Unix Way". Wayland is an API and protocol. Weston is a compositor using Wayland, another implementation named Green Island exists as well as a very alpha and early stage KWin. X Server is not a "thing", it is a composition of many small parts. Two of these small parts, Xorg and X11, are 'replaced' by Wayland when only composition is required. Wayland is a "small" thing compared to X, it is smaller. It does one thing well, very well, being lightweight with more power and modern connectivity between compositor and clients using only the kernel. Wayland works with X and all X friendly programs, working together VERY well with others. Wayland is configured and setup through flat text files. Wayland is "more" Unix than X in this regard.
said by Doug McIlroy :This is the Unix philosophy: Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface. I agree about systemd, definitely a step away from UNIX... but it is quite nice to work with after destroying 2 coffee mugs. Still is quite the beast compared to init.
Wayland has gotten a bad rap from many whom do not understand what the hell it actually is. It is a different method between compositor and client, this is a small part of the whole X server. Wayland doesn't "replace" X en masse. It is very easy to follow the source: »cgit.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/
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| reply to koitsu
said by koitsu:It absolutely blows my mind how much stuff in Linux is shoved into kernel space, and for no real justified reason. I'm not trying to start an OS war -- honest folks -- but this is one thing the BSDs do not do.
...
I imagine howardfine and I have the same opinion here.
+1 |
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| reply to markofmayhem
said by markofmayhem:I agree about systemd, definitely a step away from UNIX
+1 |
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| reply to Cabal
You can't do this with Wayland. |
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