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IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
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Power non-payment shut-off question

Our neighbor came knocking on our door asking us to charge a cell phone. He said his power was shut-off for non-payment. The meter is is a dual socket set-up where one line comes in and is split between two meters (ours and their's) and the poco has not pulled the meter but his is not turning. Mine is on (as I pay the bill).

I wonder if the poco has a way of shutting off power to one unit in a duplex without pulling the meter.
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alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
There must be something inside the meter they disconnected.

I doubt POCOs go up the pole to turn off power to residences.

Your topic should have been more along the lines of: How do I make sure my neighbor isn't freeloading off my electricity?

You know he will do it. I don't know about where you live, but here the POCO waits a LONG time before cutting power.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
said by IowaCowboy:

Our neighbor came knocking on our door asking us to charge a cell phone.

said by alkizmo:

Your topic should have been more along the lines of: How do I make sure my neighbor isn't freeloading off my electricity?

Obviously, he already is!


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

reply to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

Our neighbor came knocking on our door asking us to charge a cell phone. He said his power was shut-off for non-payment. The meter is is a dual socket set-up where one line comes in and is split between two meters (ours and their's) and the poco has not pulled the meter but his is not turning. Mine is on (as I pay the bill).

I wonder if the poco has a way of shutting off power to one unit in a duplex without pulling the meter.

Old style: The POCO pulls the meter, installs plastic insulators on the clips and puts the meter back in.
New Smart Meters they just send a signal to the meter to activate the internal relay


UHF
All static, all day, Forever
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
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reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

I don't know about where you live, but here the POCO waits a LONG time before cutting power.

If my bill is due today (Tuesday), I will be disconnected no later than Friday. Usually it would be 8am Thursday. They don't screw around. My friends in Indiana found the same thing, power cut 48 hours after the bill was due. And they charged them $75 cash, the past due balance, plus the next months estimated bill to turn them back on.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by IowaCowboy:

Our neighbor came knocking on our door asking us to charge a cell phone. He said his power was shut-off for non-payment. The meter is is a dual socket set-up where one line comes in and is split between two meters (ours and their's) and the poco has not pulled the meter but his is not turning. Mine is on (as I pay the bill).

I wonder if the poco has a way of shutting off power to one unit in a duplex without pulling the meter.

Old style: The POCO pulls the meter, installs plastic insulators on the clips and puts the meter back in.
New Smart Meters they just send a signal to the meter to activate the internal relay

Wthe new smart meter method is better. No need for the utility to waste fuel to deal with deadbeats.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to UHF
said by UHF:

said by alkizmo:

I don't know about where you live, but here the POCO waits a LONG time before cutting power.

If my bill is due today (Tuesday), I will be disconnected no later than Friday. Usually it would be 8am Thursday. They don't screw around. My friends in Indiana found the same thing, power cut 48 hours after the bill was due. And they charged them $75 cash, the past due balance, plus the next months estimated bill to turn them back on.

Damn! They hold you guys on a short leash.

The first time here, typically you get disconnected after 2 months, and they usually get in contact with you first and put a big red tag on your door. If you are only a few days late they don't really bother you.

And we have 100% smart meters here (full digital meters or mechanical AMR retrofits.)

If you are low income or receiving assistance, disabled etc they have to work it out with you first and can't disconnect you during winter.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to UHF
said by New Jersey Bill of Rights :
You have the right to a written notice of termination 10 days prior to discontinuance of service.

Residential service may be shut off, after proper notice, Monday through Thursday, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. A utility may not shut off residential service on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, a holiday, the day before a holiday or if a valid medical emergency exists in your household.

Winter termination program -- If you are an elderly or low-income customer having financial problems paying your bill, you should request the company to enroll you in a budget plan in accordance with your ability to pay. You are required to make good-faith payments of all reasonable bills for service and in return are assured of the right to have gas and electric utilities service from November 15 to March 15 without fear of termination of such service.
Glad I don't live where you live. A payment doesn't get applied to your account properly, and the first time you find out is when your power goes out? You're kidding, right?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to UHF
said by UHF:

said by alkizmo:

I don't know about where you live, but here the POCO waits a LONG time before cutting power.

If my bill is due today (Tuesday), I will be disconnected no later than Friday. Usually it would be 8am Thursday. They don't screw around. My friends in Indiana found the same thing, power cut 48 hours after the bill was due. And they charged them $75 cash, the past due balance, plus the next months estimated bill to turn them back on.

Don't know where you are but...I assure you they do not do it anywhere near that fast here. alkizmo is right in what he posted.
Expand your moderator at work


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to fifty nine

Re: Power non-payment shut-off question

said by fifty nine:

Damn! They hold you guys on a short leash.

The first time here, typically you get disconnected after 2 months, and they usually get in contact with you first and put a big red tag on your door. If you are only a few days late they don't really bother you.

And we have 100% smart meters here (full digital meters or mechanical AMR retrofits.)

If you are low income or receiving assistance, disabled etc they have to work it out with you first and can't disconnect you during winter.

state by state disconnection laws

For your reference:

quote:
New Jersey - There is a ban in place on disconnection for customers receiving Lifeline, LIHEAP, TANF, SSI, PAAD or GA. The law also protects households that may be unable to pay overdue amounts on their utilities because of medical expenses, unemployment, or recent death of spouse. These plans are in effect during the winter, and summer when the temperature is above 95. Customers eligible for the Winter Termination Protection Program are placed on a budget plan and cannot be disconnected as long as they make good faith payments on their heating bills. During the heating season, a utility may not ask for a security deposit. If a customer is eligible for the Winter Termination Program, and the high temperature is forecast to be 90o or more at any time during the following 48 hours, an electric utility shall not discontinue residential service to a customer for reasons of nonpayment of a delinquent account, or failure to comply with a deferred payment agreement, or failure to pay a cash security deposit or guarantee. Another rules states that disconnection is delayed for up to two months if physician certifies that health of household member would be adversely affected from the termination of service. Customer must enter into a payment plan with their energy provider Cannot disconnect unless the customer owes more than $50 or more than three months of charges.


UHF
All static, all day, Forever
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
Reviews:
·Mediacom
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·Dish Network
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by UHF:

said by alkizmo:

I don't know about where you live, but here the POCO waits a LONG time before cutting power.

If my bill is due today (Tuesday), I will be disconnected no later than Friday. Usually it would be 8am Thursday. They don't screw around. My friends in Indiana found the same thing, power cut 48 hours after the bill was due. And they charged them $75 cash, the past due balance, plus the next months estimated bill to turn them back on.

Don't know where you are but...I assure you they do not do it anywhere near that fast here. alkizmo is right in what he posted.

That's what my friends in Indiana said happened to them. I don't know how late they really were. They mentioned when they lived in IL they could be months behind and not be shut off.

Where I am, the day after the bill is due you get a 24 hour disconnect notice. They don't post payments after 3:30pm, so they must print notices on the due date and then drop them at the post office so I get it the next day. It's crazy.

You'd think they give some leeway, people have emergencies come up and bills might be late because of that. Not all late pays are because of deadbeats, sometimes things just come up and shit happens.

Because it's a municipal utility, most state regulations do not apply to them, with the exception that they cannot disconnect between Nov 1 and March 31 if the temperature that day is forecast to be below 32 degrees.

I've listened in on their radio chatter, and I know they usually knock on the door and attempt to collect before pulling the meter.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to UHF
said by UHF:

If my bill is due today (Tuesday), I will be disconnected no later than Friday. Usually it would be 8am Thursday. They don't screw around. My friends in Indiana found the same thing, power cut 48 hours after the bill was due. And they charged them $75 cash, the past due balance, plus the next months estimated bill to turn them back on.

That's NUTS
I guess smart meters give a tighter leash power for the POCO, it costs money to send someone qualified to manually cut power, but a smart meter does it through a bean counter's computer.

Last year, for whatever X reason, the POCO stopped doing direct withdrawals from my bank account for payments.
Since the payments were typically around 40$ a month, and never on the same day, and that I don't look for something MISSING in my statements, I simply never noticed.

It took 6 months for the POCO to send me a friendly reminder that I was late and that EVENTUALLY I would get "penalized" by a fee if I didn't pay soon.

6 months late... with a threat of a fee.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to UHF
said by UHF:

My friends in Indiana found the same thing, power cut 48 hours after the bill was due.

Ironically, for the few months after summer when the AC has been ran quite a bit, it's not unusual for my "unpaid balance" to be 3-4x my monthly budget plan amount. Don't pay for 2 months and it's a problem. Have 4 months of a balance and it's ok. Strange accounting logic.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by cdru:

Ironically, for the few months after summer when the AC has been ran quite a bit, it's not unusual for my "unpaid balance" to be 3-4x my monthly budget plan amount. Don't pay for 2 months and it's a problem. Have 4 months of a balance and it's ok. Strange accounting logic.

Their strictness in paying on time has often little to do with the sum, especially for large corporations.

Being late to pay 5$ for 4 months on a credit card hurts a lot more your credit bureau than being late 1 month for 5000$.

Automatism at its most indiscriminate.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to IowaCowboy
Watch for extension cords!


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to Jack_in_VA
Ah, so if you're a welfare bum, they can't turn off your power.

Regular working stiffs, shut 'em off pronto!


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
said by KrK:

Ah, so if you're a welfare bum, they can't turn off your power.

Regular working stiffs, shut 'em off pronto!

Welcome to the new America!


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Anon
said by Jack_in_VA:

Maybe the poor non-payer is not in fact a deadbeat but a victim of a nation that still has almost an 8 percent unemployment rate.

People in that situation are given due consideration.

People who just don't pay their bills are cut off.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by fifty nine:

Damn! They hold you guys on a short leash.

The first time here, typically you get disconnected after 2 months, and they usually get in contact with you first and put a big red tag on your door. If you are only a few days late they don't really bother you.

And we have 100% smart meters here (full digital meters or mechanical AMR retrofits.)

If you are low income or receiving assistance, disabled etc they have to work it out with you first and can't disconnect you during winter.

state by state disconnection laws

For your reference:

quote:
New Jersey - There is a ban in place on disconnection for customers receiving Lifeline, LIHEAP, TANF, SSI, PAAD or GA. The law also protects households that may be unable to pay overdue amounts on their utilities because of medical expenses, unemployment, or recent death of spouse. These plans are in effect during the winter, and summer when the temperature is above 95. Customers eligible for the Winter Termination Protection Program are placed on a budget plan and cannot be disconnected as long as they make good faith payments on their heating bills. During the heating season, a utility may not ask for a security deposit. If a customer is eligible for the Winter Termination Program, and the high temperature is forecast to be 90o or more at any time during the following 48 hours, an electric utility shall not discontinue residential service to a customer for reasons of nonpayment of a delinquent account, or failure to comply with a deferred payment agreement, or failure to pay a cash security deposit or guarantee. Another rules states that disconnection is delayed for up to two months if physician certifies that health of household member would be adversely affected from the termination of service. Customer must enter into a payment plan with their energy provider Cannot disconnect unless the customer owes more than $50 or more than three months of charges.

Pretty much what I said.

But deadbeats who spend their money on the latest iPhone instead of their electric bill? Screw 'em.


chamberc
Premium
join:2008-08-05
Irving, TX
reply to Anon
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by fifty nine:

Wthe new smart meter method is better. No need for the utility to waste fuel to deal with deadbeats.

Maybe the poor non-payer is not in fact a deadbeat but a victim of a nation that still has almost an 8 percent unemployment rate.

Each of those are "victims" only of their own laziness.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

1 recommendation

reply to IowaCowboy

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjCDwetH4po


Karen Mantler singing about her experience with not paying her electric bill. I prefer the CD version, which is much slower and more pleasant to listen to.

JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:

I doubt POCOs go up the pole to turn off power to residences.

I don't know about where you live, but here the POCO waits a LONG time before cutting power.

It depends on the circumstances. Our power was shut off for non-payment back in 04/05 or so. We had a fenced in front yard (there was a gate next to the pole also because of a Comcast power supply in the front yard) but there were also two dogs inside the fence. They went up in a bucket truck and literally cut the line in two (really the only option they had since we didn't have a smart meter yet).

Georgia Power would send out disconnect letter when you were two months past due and going on your third month. Basically you could have not paid for two months roughly and it would take getting to that third month before they would shut off power. I think they charged us a $250 fee for reconnect.


wowey

@videotron.ca
reply to UHF
said by UHF:

If my bill is due today (Tuesday), I will be disconnected no later than Friday. Usually it would be 8am Thursday. They don't screw around. My friends in Indiana found the same thing, power cut 48 hours after the bill was due. And they charged them $75 cash, the past due balance, plus the next months estimated bill to turn them back on.

Wow. You serious? I never missed a bill, but, know of a girl who gambled her money away instead of paying her electric bill. They only cut her after 4 months or so. Then they have to turn it back on (even if they don't pay) when the temp drops to a certain point. Then they can disconnect it again in spring after a certain temp rise.

Cut 48-hrs after a bill is due? That doesn't even sound legal (at least, it isn't legal here as far as I know, unless there's been some sort of previous years long paying issue).


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to chamberc
said by chamberc:

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by fifty nine:

Wthe new smart meter method is better. No need for the utility to waste fuel to deal with deadbeats.

Maybe the poor non-payer is not in fact a deadbeat but a victim of a nation that still has almost an 8 percent unemployment rate.

Each of those are "victims" only of their own laziness.

Really? Explain that logic so I can understand how someone who gets laid off or suffers a devastating illnes is a victim of their own laziness. You must be a member of the 1 percent club.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·AT&T Midwest
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reply to UHF
said by UHF:

Where I am, the day after the bill is due you get a 24 hour disconnect notice.

...

Because it's a municipal utility, most state regulations do not apply to them

I've listened in on their radio chatter, and I know they usually knock on the door and attempt to collect before pulling the meter.

1. In Wisconsin, that's not going to happen. If it did, I'd like to see the actual timeline and documentation. I had tenants regularly go two months before a disconnect. Lots of them. In the summer.

2. I am served by municipal water and sewer utilities, and all of the usual PSC rules apply to them. Why would they be exempted?

3. We Energies will knock on the door, but not to collect. They need to make sure that there is nobody there depending on electricity for medical needs. So if you want to get an extension, be home and fire up the nebulizer or the iron lung.
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Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 edit
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

Pretty much what I said.

But deadbeats who spend their money on the latest iPhone instead of their electric bill? Screw 'em.

New Jersey - There is a ban in place on disconnection for customers receiving Lifeline, LIHEAP, TANF, SSI, PAAD or GA. The law also protects households that may be unable to pay overdue amounts on their utilities because of medical expenses, unemployment, or recent death of spouse. These plans are in effect during the winter, and summer when the temperature is above 95. Customers eligible for the Winter Termination Protection Program are placed on a budget plan and cannot be disconnected as long as they make good faith payments on their heating bills. During the heating season, a utility may not ask for a security deposit. If a customer is eligible for the Winter Termination Program, and the high temperature is forecast to be 90o or more at any time during the following 48 hours, an electric utility shall not discontinue residential service to a customer for reasons of nonpayment of a delinquent account, or failure to comply with a deferred payment agreement, or failure to pay a cash security deposit or guarantee. Another rules states that disconnection is delayed for up to two months if physician certifies that health of household member would be adversely affected from the termination of service. Customer must enter into a payment plan with their energy provider Cannot disconnect unless the customer owes more than $50 or more than three months of charges.

Not exactly: Termination of service in NJ as many other states is not quite as easy as you make it seem. The compassionate bleeding hearts would have a fit to actually make some of them pay.

The law also protects households that may be unable to pay overdue amounts on their utilities because of medical expenses, unemployment, or recent death of spouse


nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to UHF
Here it depends. We have had tons of stuff with my elderly parents going on the last few years. Missed a payment majorly once (around a week for disconnect and out of town with mom) and when we got home the meter was changed out to a limited one. Forgot it was due with everything else going on. Couldn't run more than x amps. Fridge was fine but no AC. At least the tech doing it though shut heatpump circuit off as well has other high amp circuits and left on the smaller ones such as fridge. Think the charge was around 50 for missing the payment and truck run no other fees as long term customer. Reason pulled is we had missed a payment by a day in the last year another just too much to do so computer said we looked bad. So when out of town for moms emergency for a couple weeks looked bad as another payment missed. The live chat said we just were not best of best and if done manually would not have pulled the meter. Computers are great.


FL Guy

@mycingular.net
I'm in central Florida and have service though Progress Energy Florida and have no firsthand experience with their shutoff policy but my neighbor gets several visits a year. They average 60 days with lights followed by 30 days without. Thankfully they are a good distance away and only ask us for water. Only once did they ask to put a small fridge in our barn that is nearest their home. At that time they had 4 iPhones charging. The sympathy ran out quick. That panel is now locked up.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Really? Explain that logic so I can understand how someone who gets laid off or suffers a devastating illnes is a victim of their own laziness. You must be a member of the 1 percent club.

I can agree with chamberc to some extent. I know people personally who would rather collect an unemployment check than go out and do hard manual labor or do a job they think is demeaning. The 99 weeks of unemployment did that to a lot of people. I'm not saying everyone but I know of quite a few who are waiting for a mythical recovery that will get them back into a job that they had before they lost it.