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Dampier
Phillip M Dampier

join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY

Stories from a Frustrated Frontier CSR

Stop the Cap! now has a three-part series up with a very long list of frustrations from a Frontier call center rep in Ohio on everything from term contracts to broadband speeds, modem fees, facts about FiOS, and the way the company conducts business. It's not flattering, and frankly I'm not surprised by any of it. After all, one of their reps in DeLand insisted I needed to check out Frontier's exciting "Wee-Fee" wireless service. Sigh...

If you have 20 minutes, check it out:

Part 1: »wp.me/p2GbIL-7sU
Part 2: »wp.me/p2GbIL-7tp
Part 3: »wp.me/p2GbIL-7u5
--
Phillip M. Dampier
Editor, Stop the Cap!
»stopthecap.com


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Statements like this: "Even the majority of our Frontier FiOS customers are sometimes lucky to receive the speeds that cable offers, but for different reasons" with nothing to back them up do nothing to prove the credibility of other "facts" in these "articles".
--
♬ Music is life ♬


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
said by darcilicious:

Statements like this: "Even the majority of our Frontier FiOS customers are sometimes lucky to receive the speeds that cable offers, but for different reasons" with nothing to back them up do nothing to prove the credibility of other "facts" in these "articles".

That is pretty debatable. Not sure where exactly that part came from in the document. Maybe they're talking about downstream and not upstream, or vice versa?


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

Statements like this: "Even the majority of our Frontier FiOS customers are sometimes lucky to receive the speeds that cable offers, but for different reasons" with nothing to back them up do nothing to prove the credibility of other "facts" in these "articles".

I'm trying very hard to give the person the benefit of the doubt here: It is possible that he or she is referring to the shared ONT installations that Verizon did in some areas of Washington state to accommodate picky MDU owners. I was on one of those. Though my bill said I was getting 25/25 service, I was actually only provisioned at 10/5 for three months until I pushed long enough to get it to 20/5, which is supposedly the maximum those BPON/VDSL1 devices can handle. That device was notoriously unreliable and I would sometimes get as low as my original 10/5 (or even 10/2) before doing a reboot-and-pray of the VDSL bridge. My bill said "FiOS," though fiber didn't come within 200' of my actual apartment. According to a Frontier rep I talked with months later, their sales CSRs don't know this in advance because Frontier only bought the list of serviceable addresses from Verizon when it switched the back-end systems to Frontier-owned hardware. The database didn't include details on what type of service was at that address, merely a "yes," "no," or "contact engineering."

Having done call center work in the past, none of what is written in these posts surprises me. Guess what: companies have some bad employees, every company with multiple call centers has one center that every other center loathes, policies are sometimes rigid and inane, and otherwise smart people do dumb things out of laziness or some other random quirk.

bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
Reviews:
·TowerStream
reply to Dampier
Sounds like the local Verizon call center. Its funny the Verizon center is run by native english speakers Mr and Mrs Smith who chide you for calling the number on your bill and push you back into the phone tree. I'd rather have Jimmy from Manila or Steve from Mumbai who can actually fix the issue once we get over the thick accent and language barriers.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Dampier
I also forgot to mention in my last post. I have a lot to say about the call center deal, even though I don't have direct experience with one, I do provide support for a bunch of call centers within the company I work for as a Datacenter Tech/SysAdmin and maintain close ties to them. The problems Frontier is seeing within their call centers isn't uncommon, but it can be addressed by undergoing policy and management changes. The call centers at the company I work for a very close knit, each agent knows each other by name, communicate with one another in friendly manners, and from my knowledge, are not going around bashing others. I frequently hear or see "Lolz" and "rofl" thrown around by each agent from time to time as they communicate between offices.

This was not always the case. Things in the past were less chatty, and more serious between offices, sometimes to the point of competition. It took ONE person, non-management, within just one call center, to really get each center united which believe it or not, really shot the quality AND Quantity of work up a ton and made everyone happier (which makes me happy when I'm not being spoken to in a miserable tone on the phone to fix a server problem). Everyone has a common goal, works to achieve it, and everyone has each other's back if something happens, even management does to a large extent. Management however, won't let poor quality work fly, but they will still support you.

It doesn't take an economics, business, or management major to sort out those issues, but it does take coordinated, proper movements to sort them out too. I'll leave it at that and let the forum carry it from there. Not much else I can chime into for not having such a position.

I do have some things to say about Frontier and their network policies, but I won't voice them here. Maybe I'll spill them out to Wordpress when I'm tired of holding it in.


Hank
Searching for a new Frontier
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
I got tired of holding it in and expressed my issues to the PUC and FCC. Prior to that I expressed them directly to Frontier management and nothing changed. This individual may be disgruntled but some of the things he talks about have been experienced by individuals that participate in this forum. If one is outside the company and the company is not fulfilling their contractual obligations or abiding by local or federal regulations what choice do they have but to express their experiences to the regulators.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
Bingo. The writing is on the wall for every company out there. Eventually, something is going to happen and someone's going to get into a heap of trouble and things will have to change. Maybe not overnight, but for sure. It may not come from regulators though, so I wouldn't hold my breath for regulation to help until they start putting companies under the gun in the strict form. What is going on is just a repeat of history in a different form.


Hank
Searching for a new Frontier
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

1 recommendation

Granted, regulators may not solve the problem. But, if folks set back and accept poor service or misleading statements by the companies representatives and do not say anything about it or do not raise the issues with the proper authorities then the company continues with the practices and in some instances may even become embolden by the lack of response.


random guy

@frontiernet.net
While some of the statements are true from the writer a lot are misinformed. Marion Ohio was never a Fiber call center in Verizon's days . It was always copper for very good reasons. The reps statement as Fios customers cannot get there fios speeds because there on copper from the pole. Sorry that is still a copper customer connected to DSL, not a ont and a pon splitter. I'm sorry this rep does have some valid frustrations, yet most of them are from there own lack of knowledge not the network.


Hank
Searching for a new Frontier
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
said by random guy :

While some of the statements are true from the writer a lot are misinformed. Marion Ohio was never a Fiber call center in Verizon's days . It was always copper for very good reasons. The reps statement as Fios customers cannot get there fios speeds because there on copper from the pole. Sorry that is still a copper customer connected to DSL, not a ont and a pon splitter. I'm sorry this rep does have some valid frustrations, yet most of them are from there own lack of knowledge not the network.

I think many of us realize that some of his frustration may be from a from lack of understanding of the network. We are referring to what is told to a customer when they place an order; when orders are arbitrarily changed; when schedules are changed and you are not notified; when the circuit will not support the advertised speed and the solution is to cut your speed back and not resolve the problem; when the CSR refuses to write a trouble ticket, etc. Those are just a few of the problems that have been outlined by several members of this forum.

For many of us that are legacy customers when we receive the excuse that the reason there network is having problems is because of the poor condition of the former Verizon network. The problem with that statement is the problems legacy customers have now existed before Verizon's portion was taken over by Frontier. Hope that makes sense.

,

Dampier
Phillip M Dampier

join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

Statements like this: "Even the majority of our Frontier FiOS customers are sometimes lucky to receive the speeds that cable offers, but for different reasons" with nothing to back them up do nothing to prove the credibility of other "facts" in these "articles".

It is clear that this rep is not an enormously technical person, and I have personally verified this is a bonafide call center worker for Frontier.

If this case, the person is referring to backbone congestion from Frontier's upstream provider -and- customers who were sold Frontier FiOS but actually are being served with copper wire to the home.

I am not sure what you want as "facts" when we are dealing with the personal experiences of this rep. I actually have enough sources at the company that perhaps I can get someone to send me some internal stats on how much they have oversold their network in some locales.
--
Phillip M. Dampier
Editor, Stop the Cap!
»stopthecap.com


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
"Even the majority of our Frontier FiOS customers are sometimes lucky to receive the speeds that cable offers."

Really? You stand by the statement that the MAJORITY of FiOS are getting the speeds they're paying for because they're just plain sometimes lucky?
--
♬ Music is life ♬


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
I agree with darci; this I find very hard to believe. If Frontier FiOS data customers weren't receiving fiber-style speeds, they'd be leaving in droves. In fact, Frontier's own public statements contradict that. They've added many thousands of fiber data subscribers.

Yes, Frontier has congestion at times (I've experienced it). No, it isn't a "majority" of the time. If it was, Frontier FiOS would have collapsed.


Exemployee

@comcast.net
reply to Dampier
As an ex employee of Frontier, she got a lot of things right, but somethings wrong. After several years of working there and working all sides of the business, I have come to the opinion that Frontier is the WORST company I have and ever will work for. This opinion is not of my pay or my position (I was paid quite well), but as of the company as a whole.

I started writing a response to her letter, and came to a single spaced page, before realizing i am not even covering a 1/8th of what I want to say. I honestly believe Frontier is literally barely holding it together.

Maybe I'll write my own "open letter". Since I am not currently an employee, I don't have to worry about being "found out"


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 recommendation

reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

"Even the majority of our Frontier FiOS customers are sometimes lucky to receive the speeds that cable offers."

Really? You stand by the statement that the MAJORITY of FiOS are getting the speeds they're paying for because they're just plain sometimes lucky?

I don't see the problem with the statement. If the majority of people only SOMETIMES get their rated speed, its probably due to massive congestion issue.

In which case, the random times of the day in which people see full speed would certainly seem like luck.

That is If indeed they do have congestion issues, which I have no knowledge of, but I see no reason why the rep would lie.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
said by DataRiker:

If the majority of people only SOMETIMES get their rated speed, its probably due to massive congestion issue.

And that's my point, IF. And that's a pretty big damn IF for which this forum doesn't even provide anecdotal evidence to support and the rep provides no evidence of any kind.

said by DataRiker:

That is If indeed they do have congestion issues, which I have no knowledge of, but I see no reason why the rep would lie.

I don't think the rep is lying. I think the rep is ignorant/mistaken. And the fact that the Dampier is happy to post this article without any kind of qualifiers says more about Dampier than it does about FiOS from Frontier.

When FiOS customers have issues, there are plenty of people on this forum that would be posting about them, as history has proven consistently since Frontier took over.

The FACT is, the MAJORITY of FiOS customers get their advertised speeds pretty damn consistently, not the other way around.
--
♬ Music is life ♬

Dampier
Phillip M Dampier

join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

"Even the majority of our Frontier FiOS customers are sometimes lucky to receive the speeds that cable offers."

Really? You stand by the statement that the MAJORITY of FiOS are getting the speeds they're paying for because they're just plain sometimes lucky?

I am not standing by anything someone else says, because I don't know first hand. I think the angle this rep was going for is that the FiOS fiber technology is fine, but if Frontier's backhaul/backbone connection is not, speeds slow when the network is busy. I think this rep is also comparing maximum possible speeds for Ft. Wayne, which seems to top out around 35Mbps. Cable can match and exceed that now on the downstream, something Comcast has now been pushing in response to FiOS.

From the additional email I am now getting from other Frontier reps in response, the issue is indeed about the backbone connection Frontier has, not local speeds inside the network.


Hank
Searching for a new Frontier
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
kudos:3
I have too agree with Dampier. When you consider the general comments made about some the call centers from my experience, and apparently from others that have posted in this forum, I cannot disagree with their assessment.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

The FACT is, the MAJORITY of FiOS customers get their advertised speeds pretty damn consistently, not the other way around.

You know this to be true on Frontier?


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Frontier FiOS? Yes.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
Until you show evidence, why should we take your word over the reps?

Kudos if you do.

Shame on you if you don't.

I know Verizon users usually achieve over their rated speed and this has been verified independently.

Have no idea about Frontier.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Who choose to believe is entirely up to you. I cite this forum as anecdotal evidence, do what you will with it.
--
♬ Music is life ♬


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
Seeing as how the rep is exposed to exponentially more frontier users than you, I would choose their anecdotal evidence over yours.

Makes sense right?


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
I respect your choice even as I disagree with it.
--
♬ Music is life ♬


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to Dampier
I think the criticism on Dampier was very misplaced.

At some point you have to believe in people, otherwise you have no place to begin.

I think much of it is people do not understand how many people rep's touch in a day. I don't think 100 calls a day would be out of line. Some actual CSR's can chime in to correct me if i'm wrong.

Given those numbers, if your seeing the same issue day in day out, there is definitely a problem.


wesm
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA
I've done call center tech support for a major technology company whose products you've likely used. In a decade of doing that, I only had one call where a person or business called up to say that everything was working perfectly.

As I wrote before: Yes, Frontier has problems. Every company has problems; that's why they have support departments. Manning the phone lines for tech support means that everything sucks and nothing ever works.

Attacking Phillip for what he wrote is attacking the messenger. I happen to be fairly certain, based on my experience both in IT and in tech support, that the Frontier reps' anecdotal evidence is skewed. If every Frontier customer--or even a majority of them--experienced all or most of the problems described in the articles, Frontier would be bankrupt. Obviously they're doing something right, especially in markets where they have competition, because people still voluntarily sign up.


Hank
Searching for a new Frontier
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
said by wesm:

Attacking Phillip for what he wrote is attacking the messenger. I happen to be fairly certain, based on my experience both in IT and in tech support, that the Frontier reps' anecdotal evidence is skewed. If every Frontier customer--or even a majority of them--experienced all or most of the problems described in the articles, Frontier would be bankrupt. Obviously they're doing something right, especially in markets where they have competition, because people still voluntarily sign up.

I think Phillip did a good thing by posting the letters. But I do not think it is universally accepted by the Frontier customer base that Frontier is doing a good job at addressing issues. I do believe the individual that wrote the letter has addressed several issues that Frontier management absolutely needs to address based on my personal experience and the postings by others in this forum.
Expand your moderator at work


Racerbob
Premium
join:2001-06-24
Webster, NY
kudos:1
reply to Hank

Re: Stories from a Frustrated Frontier CSR

I definitely agree. Phil's passion for this industry and how honestly articles are presented on his website is well known by myself and others who have known him for years here on the internet. He presents the facts an an honest and fair way. I have no reason to doubt what this Frontier CSR has written.
--
Obama = Epic Fail