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J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

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[Poll] Should junk food be taxed?

I have mixed feelings about this:

»www.cp24.com/news/oma-ur ··· .1007550

Junk food is already taxed (at 13%) but should we tax it more?

Poll
Should junk food be taxed?

Yes

No

Maybe

Not sure


Votes:84



A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
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join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker

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Nope. If the OMA is really so concerned about the obesity epidemic then lobby for inclusion of nutritional counselling, preventive medicine, etc. Might want to take a really good look at Canada's food guide... that kind of sucks at times.

Break the (guessing) billions of dollars diet industry, who really doesn't win if their product is 100% effective. A perfect diet system is one where people lose weight, but doing so without learning how to transition at their goal weight. This way when they regain weight they'll come back and spend more money.

Educate people that losing 20 pounds in 20 days is unrealistic and (depending on your weight) mainly freaking water. Take the Biggest Loser off the air as it makes the average person feel like they can't lose weight like them (who could without 24/7 support). Teach them that low-fat usually means high sugar, and that low-cal means full of crap (and still often has HFCS in it).

Taxing junk food will just give some of the population more ammunition against the overweight/obese.

(FWIW still maintaining a slightly higher than 2lb/week loss since April and don't think I've bought a 'diet' food during that time frame.)

urbanriot
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Canada

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LOL you're funny, I came to the forum to post this just now!

Read about it here with some pictures of suggested warnings - »news.ca.msn.com/doctors- ··· inst-fat

I'm on the fence with this one as I'm against overly taxing people in an overtaxed country however part of the overtaxation includes health care so it makes sense to offset the cost of health care by such means...

So, I don't know. We have far too many overweight people in our society and we're becoming a fat country so something should be done to encourage people to live the healthy lives that people in countries like Spain live...

So it's either tax the unhealthy food or tax overweight people directly or tax credits for people that live healthy lives. I'm all for any one of those things.

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
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join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

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A Lurker

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said by urbanriot:

So it's either tax the unhealthy food or tax overweight people directly or tax credits for people that live healthy lives. I'm all for any one of those things.

Nah, tax based on blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol if you're going to tax on unhealthy lifestyles. That will catch the thin people with crappy eating habits as well.

lugnut
@look.ca

lugnut

Anon

said by A Lurker:

said by urbanriot:

So it's either tax the unhealthy food or tax overweight people directly or tax credits for people that live healthy lives. I'm all for any one of those things.

Nah, tax based on blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol if you're going to tax on unhealthy lifestyles. That will catch the thin people with crappy eating habits as well.

And while we're at it why not levy some hefty taxes on sports equipment for all those psycho fitness nuts who cost the taxpayers billions in sports injuries and physiotherapy while we're at it...

That's gov't's answer to everything. Tax the bejeezus out of it and wallow in the windfall profits for the MP pension fund!!!

I swear if I ever manage to win the lottery while writing my novel I'm off to Tahiti before you can say "tax him!"

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
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join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker

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said by lugnut :

And while we're at it why not levy some hefty taxes on sports equipment for all those psycho fitness nuts who cost the taxpayers billions in sports injuries and physiotherapy while we're at it...

I was going to suggest that as well, but decided to quit while I was ahead.

digitalfutur
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join:2000-07-15
GTA

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Define "junk food". Are all these items on which Ontario RST is charged junk food?

»www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/gui ··· 906.html

loosedobbs
join:2006-06-13
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»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· youtu.be

digitalfutur
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Correct. There's a difference between healthy and absence of disease.
quote:
In 2005, in a rigorous analysis of actual deaths in the U.S. over a 30-year period, research scientists with CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics, showed a figure closer to 112,000 deaths.

Their study revealed a great deal more. Yes, these were serious health risks. But rather than being spread across the two categories of overweight and obese, they were confined to a relatively small segment of the population. The high risk came at the level of severe obesity, called grade 3 – a body mass index (BMI) of 40 or more. Fewer than five percent of U.S. adults reach this level.

For the one-third of the population in the overweight group no risk at all was found. In fact, it had the lowest health risk of any group, lower than the category labeled normal weight and often called healthy weight.

The researchers found seriously high risks in the underweight group. Further, their report of higher risks for the normal group supported a great deal of other research that suggests a BMI of 24 to 30 as the point of lowest risk..
»www.healthyweightnetwork ··· ty2.html

XoX
join:2003-08-19
Qc, Canada

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said by A Lurker:

said by lugnut :

And while we're at it why not levy some hefty taxes on sports equipment for all those psycho fitness nuts who cost the taxpayers billions in sports injuries and physiotherapy while we're at it...

I was going to suggest that as well, but decided to quit while I was ahead.

Nah, he's right. I have a co-worker who is one of those psycho fitness nuts and that guy get hurt and call sick more than any one else... So why should i be taxed because i love sweet but not him?

A Lurker
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CBC years ago used to have an article that pretty much said the same thing. I used to have it linked, but it disappeared a year or two ago.

XoX
join:2003-08-19
Qc, Canada

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said by urbanriot:

LOL you're funny, I came to the forum to post this just now!

Read about it here with some pictures of suggested warnings - »news.ca.msn.com/doctors- ··· inst-fat

I'm on the fence with this one as I'm against overly taxing people in an overtaxed country however part of the overtaxation includes health care so it makes sense to offset the cost of health care by such means...

So, I don't know. We have far too many overweight people in our society and we're becoming a fat country so something should be done to encourage people to live the healthy lives that people in countries like Spain live...

So it's either tax the unhealthy food or tax overweight people directly or tax credits for people that live healthy lives. I'm all for any one of those things.

Sorry but why should be be taxed more? What happen if that overweight is gene based or caused by a sickness?

If you think we should be charged because we are overweight than we should also tax the sick, the drunk, the junkie, the blind, the deaf, the uneducated and etc because all these people are costing more to our system.

I mean because of all those sick people we need more nurse and doctor... because of these drunk we need more cops and jail... because of these blind people we need special light and other stuff to help them...

i can go on like that for a while...

Spain... hum... when you say Spain i think financial crisis... but oh why worry about that when we have fat people to take care off

urbanriot
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Canada

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urbanriot

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said by XoX:

Spain... hum... when you say Spain i think financial crisis...

And when I say Spain, within the context of this thread, I think of how a person can walk throughout Valencia and in an entire week, the only overweight person you'll see is typically American.

We already had a thread where a small handful of people tried to argue that the reason Canada is the fifth most obese country in the world is because of this 'overweight gene' or 'sickness'; well, perhaps North Americans have this fat gene that's not found in healthier countries... but at the same time, I'm not seeing enough done to curb obesity yet the costs of obesity is coming out of my pocket so it stands to reason that Canadians are probably not suffering from some malady or genetic issue but a terrible diet, lack of exercise and a societal acceptance of weight issues.

If I can't have health credits then I'm willing to compromise on taxing fattening foods.

XoX
join:2003-08-19
Qc, Canada

XoX

Member

said by urbanriot:

said by XoX:

Spain... hum... when you say Spain i think financial crisis...

And when I say Spain, within the context of this thread, I think of how a person can walk throughout Valencia and in an entire week, the only overweight person you'll see is typically American.

We already had a thread where a small handful of people tried to argue that the reason Canada is the fifth most obese country in the world is because of this 'overweight gene' or 'sickness'; well, perhaps North Americans have this fat gene that's not found in healthier countries... but at the same time, I'm not seeing enough done to curb obesity yet the costs of obesity is coming out of my pocket so it stands to reason that Canadians are probably not suffering from some malady or genetic issue but a terrible diet, lack of exercise and a societal acceptance of weight issues.

If I can't have health credits then I'm willing to compromise on taxing fattening foods.

Geez pathetic... oh and btw almost any food can make you fat so with the way you worded your request, that mean taxing maybe 85% of the food we eat...

Why can the moron be taxed also
Expand your moderator at work

urbanriot
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Re: [Poll] Should junk food be taxed?

said by XoX:

Geez pathetic... oh and btw almost any food can make you fat so with the way you worded your request, that mean taxing maybe 85% of the food we eat...

Oh, you might not be aware of this (maybe a little btw for you) some 'food' is bad for you, concerning fat, while other food is good for you. There's good fats and bad fats, good cholesterol and bad cholesterol.

Our government gives a basic rundown if you'd like some enlightenment on the types of fat that you need and what you don't need - »www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/fo ··· -eng.php

We're talking about the 'bad' food in this thread, not the good food. You know... the unhealthy food.
said by XoX:

Why can the moron be taxed also

I'm glad to see you're making suggestions; unfortunately there's plenty of intelligent people that are lazy and overweight so it won't target the problem. On a personal level I believe all the overweight people I know are above average intelligence... and haven't exercised a day of their life, even after heart attacks.

digitalfutur
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Context, context! I think I saw that on a test recently. LOL

loosedobbs
join:2006-06-13
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You want to tax my food you ****s?
Over my ****body...
I dont want tax on my food and I want Subway.



XoX
join:2003-08-19
Qc, Canada

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said by urbanriot:

said by XoX:

Geez pathetic... oh and btw almost any food can make you fat so with the way you worded your request, that mean taxing maybe 85% of the food we eat...

Oh, you might not be aware of this (maybe a little btw for you) some 'food' is bad for you, concerning fat, while other food is good for you. There's good fats and bad fats, good cholesterol and bad cholesterol.

Our government gives a basic rundown if you'd like some enlightenment on the types of fat that you need and what you don't need - »www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/fo ··· -eng.php

We're talking about the 'bad' food in this thread, not the good food. You know... the unhealthy food.

Hum.... Again pathetic. it's not what you eat but how much. You could eat nuts that are supposed to be good for you but eating a pound of it a day will make you a fatty... Why should it not be taxed?

If i make a home made pizza should it be taxed? Should the store made pizza be taxed? Should the restaurant made pizza be taxed? The same for the cookie, cake, burger, etc... Anything

Why should what i eat be taxed more? I do not go the hospital, i have a private insurance with my employer and already pay them enough money...

Why the pyscho nuts who is more often than me sick and hurt not be taxed? I mean he cost more than me since he need to visit the doc more often...

btw : Not everyone chose to gain some weigh... Before 12 my mother had to resize my pant because even with a waist of 28 i would lose them. At age 13 i was playing football has a lineman in a 14-18 league... I did not change what i was eating or doing and was working on a farm. The primary mode of transportation? My foot or my bike... Get the idea where i am going?
peterboro (banned)
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said by urbanriot:

On a personal level I believe all the overweight people I know are above average intelligence... and haven't exercised a day of their life, even after heart attacks.

I've noticed that s well. I'll send you a PM about what I think least it get all the fatties riled up and the thread locked.

urbanriot
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So there's been a lot of talk radio this morning concerning this topic and what I've heard was motivated me to try and reconcile where I stand on this topic. There's a hierarchical problem with conflicting ideologies.

1. We have an obesity epidemic and worse, we have people making up bullshit excuses all day long or suggest we need to stop idealizing healthy people and accept who we are. Human being are not genetically designed to be fat and this is evidenced by countries full of people that are in great shape.

2. We live in country with an average level of taxation and I'm against anything that increases that level of taxation.

3. I'm also against government involvement in my life or 'baby sitting' when it concerns things I can easily police myself.

4. However I'm also in a country where people can't police themselves so perhaps I have to suck it up and accept the government is going to meddle in my life for the betterment of society.

5. I'm in great shape and the reason I'm in great shape is because I make the healthiest of choices and I rigorously exercise. I haven't drank soda or eaten 'junk food' in years, foods we know are unquestionably bad for us an offer us nothing positive but enjoyment, yet have a cost associated with them in our health care.

6. The health care system is monetarily burdened by people who do not make the same healthy choices that I make. If I work hard to stay healthy yet I have to pay just as much as the people that do the exact opposite or in other words, I make a great effort to have a lesser cost on the health care system while others make a great effort to increase the costs of our health care system.

7. I disagreed with DKS in another thread, that higher rates of taxation on alcohol would not affect the consumption of alcohol while he believes increasing the cost limits the intake. Is junk food different or do I now see his point of view? Would less people drink a bottle of coke if it cost $5? Less kids would... I'm sure nobody could argue that.

So that's pretty much it, in summary I want lower taxes but I also want our society to live healthier and unfortunately, our society is moving in an unhealthier direction. This needs to stop.

El Quintron
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The problem goes a little deeper than just taxing fast food...

The problem is that corn, the main ingredient in all this junk is subsidized in the US, making fast food very cheap to produce.

By taxing fast food, you're asking the consumer to pay for the corn subsidy twice, when in reality if there were no corn subsidies the price of junk food would rise, and people drift towards healthier alternatives... or at least food with less or no corn.

digitalfutur
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This editorial from the Globe sums in up quite nicely.
quote:
The Ontario Medical Association’s call to slap hot fudge and French fries with a so-called fat tax is a regressive measure that will hurt consumers without any provable benefit. The association is also off-base with its proposal to put graphic photos of diseased organs and limbs on junk food packaging. While the association’s aim of raising awareness is laudable, food is not tobacco and shouldn’t be treated as an inherently harmful substance.

...Government still has no place in the pantries of the nation.

»www.theglobeandmail.com/ ··· 4633843/

When public policy ideas are first passed through a logic filter and then through cost/benefit analysis, the vast majority will never be implemented, provided that the government of the day is actually concerned with effective governance.
Bob Anderson
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Speaking of weight loss, I hit a high of 164 lbs in the '90s which is too much for my height and age (5'8.5). So I cut out soda pop completely and lost 8 lbs in 6 months. Then in 2006 I retired and cut my food consumption in half. I did that because I wasn't going to be very physically active in retirement. I dropped down to 128 lbs by this last summer, which is too little. So, I'm working my way back up to 140 over the next 3-4 months which will be my ideal weight. People ask me how I could drop my food consumption in half. For the first few days I was usually hungry but that subsided and I had a full feeling with much less food. No diet plans, just the obvious: eat less.

-Bob

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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Of course, if you don't eat junk food at all, a tax would have zero affect on you...or would it? Two points:

1) Lower health care cost = less taxes
2) Longer life = more taxes (due to them collecting for longer)
J E F F4

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said by Bob Anderson:

. No diet plans, just the obvious: eat less.

-Bob

That's true, it is that simple...easier said than done though..

My issue is eating late at night....which is the worst time to eat. I need to lost about 30 to be at ideal weight, not a lot, but enough.
peterboro (banned)
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peterboro (banned)

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said by J E F F4:

My issue is eating late at night....which is the worst time to eat.

Depends on the individual and their regime.

urbanriot
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El Quintron and digitalfutur brought up a good point, that taxing unhealthy foods may be too unwieldy to moderate; however I disagree with the Globe's opinion that food is less harmful than tobacco as we'd have a lengthy debate concerning the effects of obesity vs. the effects of tobacco.
said by J E F F4:

2) Longer life = more taxes (due to them collecting for longer)

An interesting point but we have the technology now to maintain the lives of unhealthy people even after successive heart attacks. I'm not entirely sure if long living healthy people and short living unhealthy people is a valid comparison as its probably not so black and white.
zod5000
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How much tax would they need to put on junk food to make the price point so high that people would think twice about buying it?

I think this would be a pretty big problem. Look at booze and smokes. They have more than 100% tax and people still buy them in drives (especially booze).

I don't think your going to be able to implement a tax high enough to cut out junk food. If they were to start with something like 10% or 20%, it would be nothing more than a cash grab.

That being said if they weren't actually trying to curb obesity and only wanted to get more money to cover the health care expenses. Then it might work.
booj
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said by El Quintron:

The problem is that corn, the main ingredient in all this junk is subsidized in the US, making fast food very cheap to produce.
d with less or no corn.

Bingo. Fast Food is too cheap because it is subsidized. Healthy food is subsidized less.

End the subsidies for corn products and farmers will grow something healthier.