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Upsidedown

@utoronto.ca
reply to nitzguy

Re: Differences between Teksavvy and Start

said by nitzguy:

Agreed. But most people live in their own bubble unfortunately...

If the OP lives in a metropolitan area, yeah I'd agree with you. HOWEVER, that's a big however, its a matter of exposure. If the OP lives in or came from one of those towns that has nothing but white ppl, then everybody that isn't white would be considered to be "foreign". You can teach them diversity, but if they have never seen it then whats the point? Its like learning Chinese from a book, you can try as hard as you can, its still half baked at the end.

Anyways, back to the topic. Accent or not, CSRs MUST be able to communicate properly. The biggest problem with offshore call centers is that, inability to communicate properly. If the OP was frustrated, plus if he or her has never heard that particular accent before, its not too hard to imagine communication breakdown and why the OP thought Tek's call center was outsourced/ offshore. But, I most certainly hope that Teksavvy isn't hiring visible minority because they HAVE to.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to nitzguy

said by nitzguy:

To Start: Could you not use, on "Canada's Most Unreliable Network?"....
.

Fixed it


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to Upsidedown

We don't discriminate... My point was only to say that to hire 300 people you probably go through 500-1000 resumes and the odds of not having any minorities apply and qualify, as well as any other person... Is slim. To have a place this size, and to have none.. Would seem odd to me. In a place like Toronto, it would seem even more odd to me since its more multicultural than Chatham is. I'd be wondering who's doing the hiring...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

4 edits
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

said by nitzguy:

To Start: Could you not use, on "Canada's Most Unreliable Network?"....

Fixed it



= = = = = = = =

The saving grace is that Rogers (or whoever) cannot stop any of US from interpreting/clarifying posts made by Mister Rocca, so that any time he says 'Red', and really wanted to say , WE can remind the other readers that he means Robbers - or GOUGEco, BH#$ELL, or whoever, as the case may become in the future, Conan.

= = = = = = = =

Actually, Rogers has treated me OK, as far as cellular service goes.

The main thing which they (and all of the other incumbents) could/should do to make us happier is charge us le$$, even in the smaller communities where there is not as much competition to force their hands.

Yeah, I know - "Dream ON, Dave !"

eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
reply to rocca

oh ok I knew tsi and start were on different tarrifs but I didn't know they were so restrictive



Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to DoubleEXP

The problem with outsourced call centres is that they don't comprehend the culture with whom they're speaking with, which frustrates customers.
In return, when they hear an accent from a Canadian agent, they unfortunately automatically think it's an outsourced call centre.


Dunlop

join:2011-07-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to Upsidedown

said by Upsidedown :

Anyways, back to the topic. Accent or not, CSRs MUST be able to communicate properly. The biggest problem with offshore call centers is that, inability to communicate properly. If the OP was frustrated, plus if he or her has never heard that particular accent before, its not too hard to imagine communication breakdown and why the OP thought Tek's call center was outsourced/ offshore. But, I most certainly hope that Teksavvy isn't hiring visible minority because they HAVE to.

The biggest problem with outsourced call centers is that the employees are following scripts and are generally unable to go outside this box as they have no exposure to the product they are supporting (It's pretty hard for someone in India to use teksavvy (I know they don't outsource) or even know what Bell/Rogers is), this is at the cost of Canadian jobs to line the pockets of shareholders period. As the highest paying people in the world for these services there is no reason they should ever be outsourced

Lack of service is a valid complaint, bringing up the ethnicity of a person in Canada in 2012 and the mentality that hiring this person needs to be defended is disturbing to say the least


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by Dunlop:

The biggest problem with outsourced call centers is that the employees are following scripts and are generally unable to go outside this box as they have no exposure to the product they are supporting (It's pretty hard for someone in India to use teksavvy (I know they don't outsource) or even know what Bell/Rogers is), this is at the cost of Canadian jobs to line the pockets of shareholders period. As the highest paying people in the world for these services there is no reason they should ever be outsourced

1. Not all outsourced call centres are in India. There are *plenty* of them in Canada.
2. People who do tech support at an outsourced call centre don't use scripts any more than insourced support for that same company would.

In other words, your entire view on the subject is, quite honestly, crap. If you ask me, it's the same kind of crap that is along the lines of people who assume anyone they talk to with a South Asian accent must be outsourced support from India.


My2CentsST

@start.ca
reply to DoubleEXP

I switched from Bell to Start this month and my experience are similar, if not the exact same as the OP. It's been wonderful thus far and has completely exceeded my expectations.

Regardless of which company you choose, I'm always urging people to ditch Bell or Rogers. I have a couple of friends who are on Rogers and I've convinced them to leave.

Interestingly, they're experiencing the same issues as the OP with speeds slowing to a crawl and the inability to stream videos from YouTube, etc. They're on the higher speed Rogers package and I'm on Start's 6 mb service. The kicker is, we all live live within a few blocks from each other. Their suspicion is that Rogers is throttling or packet shaping. I'm happy to report that with Start, I don't have any of that.

Anyway, I do like Teksavvy's packages and the pricing is competitive. I was all ready to sign up. However, the consistent negative experiences that I've read here and other forums regarding Teksavvy did impact my decision is in a big way.

Honestly, I don't see a "refreshing new tone" but I sincerely hope it happens soon. It's important that solid alternatives to Bell and Rogers exist in the marketplace.


bestjsg

join:2002-03-13
Markham, Ont
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to DoubleEXP

I just 'started' using 'Start' yesterday, so far so good, I even got a call from them this morning asking how my transfer is going and if I have any problems. I must have received 3-4 calls from the day I signed up until today, might have been a bit too many IMO but it makes me feel like a valued customer.

Sorry don't have experience with TEK mainly because of their initial upfront fees and a -ve phone conversations 3 yrs ago when I inquired about switching.

BTW, I originally have Bell 5MB DSL, was working fine, leaving because of it's slow speed and low cap, switched to Rogers 18 MB with a good price but although they say they don't cap p2p traffic, they do. so now finally switched to Start...and need to figure out how to return the modems back to Bell and Rogers..


Dunlop

join:2011-07-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

If you ask me, it's the same kind of crap that is along the lines of people who assume anyone they talk to with a South Asian accent must be outsourced support from India.

WTF are you talking about? I said the ethnicity (aka "accent") of the person should never EVER be a factor baring a complete failure to communicate in a language. Canada is multicultural, period.

Or to break it down, pretty much the opposite of what you are accusing me of.

Obviously my reference for outsourced call centers was about companies that do send them overseas. How would someone even know if a company outsourced inside Canada?

Anyhoo, don't want to derail the thread anymore than I have.

To the OP,

I've used Teksavvy and now Electronicbox without issue. I think Videotron plays nice in Quebec because my buddy in Ontario is going though a nightmare with his connection (not Teksavvy but another IISP that I can't recall). I hope eventually the incumbants are held more accountable


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by Dunlop:

WTF are you talking about? I said the ethnicity (aka "accent") of the person should never EVER be a factor baring a complete failure to communicate in a language. Canada is multicultural, period.

You made incorrect generalizations about outsourced technical support. I was pointing out how stupid those generalizations were and that believing them to be true is akin to thinking everyone with an accent is from Bangalore.

Understand now?


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to My2CentsST

said by My2CentsST :

Honestly, I don't see a "refreshing new tone" but I sincerely hope it happens soon. It's important that solid alternatives to Bell and Rogers exist in the marketplace.

Significant events at TekSavvy::

Late last year there were massive DHCP issues that lasted a few months. They eventually adjusted their procedures to better manage this so that people weren't offline for weeks at a time.

»blogs.teksavvy.com/2011/11/18/ca···ontario/
»blogs.teksavvy.com/2011/12/05/ca···ntinued/
»blogs.teksavvy.com/2011/12/29/ho···-issues/

Also later last year and lasting well into this year we could not get any capacity upgrades:

»blogs.teksavvy.com/2012/05/23/ou···r-order/
»blogs.teksavvy.com/2011/11/14/ne···network/
»blogs.teksavvy.com/2011/11/14/de···chedule/
»blogs.teksavvy.com/2011/12/09/ma···ndwidth/

Also late last year the CRTC decision came out:
»blogs.teksavvy.com/2011/11/15/te···2011-77/

We had to reprice nearly every service we have as a result.. did that in Jan.

In feb and march we moved locations which was a huge project:

»blogs.teksavvy.com/2012/04/11/te···he-move/

As a result of the capacity issues we had to layoff some staff in Feb.

Through out all of that we've done a massive amount of rebuilding all of our internal systems.. new web site, portal, web forms, phone system.. on and on.. we've been very busy little bees.

...and, all the mean while this was in the works:

»www.teksavvy.com/en/why-teksavvy···ber-2012

And now, it's only been a few weeks since then..

I guess, with respect, I'd ask that ppl keep a perspective on things. From my point of view, inside looking out, it's been one hell of a ride. We're past all of that now. We're doing well. We just need to focus, to get back to what we know best, what we championed for all these years. Nothing has changed in my heart, just that it's been much more difficult for it to show as we were going through the meat grinder.

I want nothing more than to say "we're back baby!" but I'll let you guys be the judge of that.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


My2CentsST

@start.ca
reply to DoubleEXP

Quick note about ditching Bell and maybe applies to Rogers...when I cancelled, they gave me this line about 30 days notice.

I told them that I never agreed to such conditions. They replied it was company policy. I said, they can't impose arbitrary company polices on me without my agreement and it wouldn't hold up in small claims court.

They said that I had agreed. I said show me, and they said it was verbal. I replied, ok replay the recording. Everything is recorded, right? The CRS had to check with her supervisor, came back within 5 minutes and stated that they would waive the 30 days notice.

So, if Bell or Rogers pulls this stunt, challenge it!



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26

hum, that's interesting. good to know.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to TSI Marc

also, for what it's worth, not sure what you're seeing Pete but we've opened more than 650 DHCP tickets this month alone... they're dealing with them much better then late last year but it's still not 100% ideal... we provide them with more IPs almost instantly once they ask us for them... thinking maybe this is a scale thing.. do you guys not see these issues at all?
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Dunlop

join:2011-07-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to My2CentsST

said by My2CentsST :

Quick note about ditching Bell and maybe applies to Rogers...when I cancelled, they gave me this line about 30 days notice.

I told them that I never agreed to such conditions. They replied it was company policy. I said, they can't impose arbitrary company polices on me without my agreement and it wouldn't hold up in small claims court.

They said that I had agreed. I said show me, and they said it was verbal. I replied, ok replay the recording. Everything is recorded, right? The CRS had to check with her supervisor, came back within 5 minutes and stated that they would waive the 30 days notice.

So, if Bell or Rogers pulls this stunt, challenge it!

They will pull any stunt to nickel and dime you. Years ago when I cancelled Expressvu and paid my balance in full I was told I could not sell my PVR for 60 days..even though I owned it for the entire duration of my subscription.

I escalated up the food chain and when I was annoying enough, the conditition was removed in literally 5 seconds by the supervisor.

On the flip side when I cancelled with Videotron to go with Teksavvy, outside of the obligatory transfer to retentions (who was extremely nice) it was the most painless process.

So they are not all "bad" ;P

mlord

join:2006-11-05
Nepean, ON
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

we provide them with more IPs almost instantly once they ask us for them... thinking maybe this is a scale thing.. do you guys not see these issues at all?

Please do correct me if wrong here, but I imagine that Pete would have a much easier time, as his DHCP assignments would all go to a single (aggregated) POI, rather than him having to balance them among a multitude of (changing) Red POIs.

Right? Or not?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

I guess, with respect, I'd ask that ppl keep a perspective on things. From my point of view, inside looking out, it's been one hell of a ride. We're past all of that now. We're doing well. We just need to focus, to get back to what we know best, what we championed for all these years. Nothing has changed in my heart, just that it's been much more difficult for it to show as we were going through the meat grinder.

Growth can be just as much a curse as it is a blessing, particularly when it is rapid. One cannot truly understand that unless they've been through it.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to mlord

said by mlord:

said by TSI Marc:

we provide them with more IPs almost instantly once they ask us for them... thinking maybe this is a scale thing.. do you guys not see these issues at all?

Please do correct me if wrong here, but I imagine that Pete would have a much easier time, as his DHCP assignments would all go to a single (aggregated) POI, rather than him having to balance them among a multitude of (changing) Red POIs.

Right? Or not?

I don't believe that's right... the IPs are assigned the very same way ours are. In fact, ARIN just passed new policies today to accommodate this exact thing for both TPIA and ATPIA and we played a significant role in highlighting what was wrong with the previous policy...

I believe it's more a matter of how it's being managed.. the more often times various areas run out of IPs, the more often you have to provide them with new ones. I think what's going on is that there's nothing pro-active going on at the other end making sure nothing gets depleted. So until we open a ticket, until they see there are none left, they dont ask us for more... and then we provide them some and they add them.. and then people get back online.

So if you rarely run out of ips since there are many spares still from the initial blocks provided.. you just wont see the problem.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by TSI Marc:

I guess, with respect, I'd ask that ppl keep a perspective on things. From my point of view, inside looking out, it's been one hell of a ride. We're past all of that now. We're doing well. We just need to focus, to get back to what we know best, what we championed for all these years. Nothing has changed in my heart, just that it's been much more difficult for it to show as we were going through the meat grinder.

Growth can be just as much a curse as it is a blessing, particularly when it is rapid. One cannot truly understand that unless they've been through it.

Growth is a factor sure but I think it's more a matter of being a trail blazer.. nobody has gone where we are right now.. a year ago we were right to be frustrated.. now, they're much better, not perfect but better. We played a major part in that... we've gone through very real issues that others haven't and may well never have to because we did..
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:22
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

I don't believe that's right... the IPs are assigned the very same way ours are.

Correct, we have the same DHCP setup as disaggregated.

said by TSI Marc:

In fact, ARIN just passed new policies today to accommodate this exact thing for both TPIA and ATPIA

Not quite passed yet, but looks like it will be as it has the community support. I'm here in Dallas for the ARIN meeting and was very impressed by how the community reacted to the policy proposal and our statements for support.

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·voip.ms
reply to DoubleEXP

Start is also a new startup with smaller customer base than TSI has, which I'm sure they will experience growing pains, the same as TSI has. They have some benefits on the cable side, only having to deal with one single interconnect point vs many points of interconnect to manage. I also feel TSI gets treated badly by BELL and ROGERS cause they dared to stand up to them.. (THANKS TSI FOR THAT BTW)

I do have to point out though, TSI needs to get the call centre issues, and customer service fall outs under control here.. Change had to happen, but right now it would appear it's a bit of a mess. When things go wrong for some customers, it's appears REALLY REALLY WRONG. I'm sure START has these issues too with some customers, but it's not making TSI look good and once a bad name is made, it's hard to shake. I can tell you that negative image is starting to show in some common foke, as I've mentioned TSI to some non-TECH types, and they have heard some bad things. This isn't good.



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:22

said by koreyb:

Start is also a new startup...

A small correction but we've been around since 1995. Cable is newer for us of course going back to March but we aren't a startup, just terrible at marketing apparently.

We are also working hard on the fight against the big guys. I am currently the regulatory chair of CNOC volunteering a lot of time in this journey so we have our neck in the game too. The independents have worked together over the past couple of years and has a result have recently seen some positive change in the industry.

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·voip.ms

said by rocca:

said by koreyb:

Start is also a new startup...

A small correction but we've been around since 1995. Cable is newer for us of course going back to March but we aren't a startup, just terrible at marketing apparently.

We are also working hard on the fight against the big guys. I am currently the regulatory chair of CNOC volunteering a lot of time in this journey so we have our neck in the game too. The independents have worked together over the past couple of years and has a result have recently seen some positive change in the industry.

I stand corrected... I only heard of your company once CABLE was offered...

As for fighting the big guys, under CNOC, you're as a group.. TSI put their own direct name on the line going on their own, which I feel has put them on the RADAR more than CNOC.. I could be wrong, but it would appear TSI is seen as more of an enemy.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

??? Teksavvy (at least the grossly outdated sites does) shows TSI as a member.



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to rocca

Ah, ok, Gabe sent me a quick note to tell me it had passed...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



rocca
Start.ca
Premium
join:2008-11-16
London, ON
kudos:22

said by TSI Marc:

Ah, ok, Gabe sent me a quick note to tell me it had passed...

The vote in the room is a "straw poll" which is taken into consideration by the Advisory Council. It's likely to receive recommendation from them based on the community support shown today. From here it goes to "last call" and once the AC is content then it goes to the Board for approval. It looks well on it's way and not likely to have any troubles at this point but will take a couple months until it's in effect.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to koreyb

said by koreyb:

Start is also a new startup with smaller customer base than TSI has, which I'm sure they will experience growing pains, the same as TSI has. They have some benefits on the cable side, only having to deal with one single interconnect point vs many points of interconnect to manage. I also feel TSI gets treated badly by BELL and ROGERS cause they dared to stand up to them.. (THANKS TSI FOR THAT BTW)

I do have to point out though, TSI needs to get the call centre issues, and customer service fall outs under control here.. Change had to happen, but right now it would appear it's a bit of a mess. When things go wrong for some customers, it's appears REALLY REALLY WRONG. I'm sure START has these issues too with some customers, but it's not making TSI look good and once a bad name is made, it's hard to shake. I can tell you that negative image is starting to show in some common foke, as I've mentioned TSI to some non-TECH types, and they have heard some bad things. This isn't good.

I totally agree. But these issues are not independent of each other... Last year when the DHCP issues we opened up something like a thousand tickets... People were offline for weeks. Some of your reference that today as a primary reason for switching away. Well, that did more than piss you guys off... We hand to handle that extra call load and follow up and emails and all sorts of stuff... How the heck can we staff properly for that? This month we opened up more than 650 DHCP tickets again... We thought wait times would be completely fixed right now, they're better than two months ago but they are still there even though I said on here that it would be fixed...

So... Now we're in the process of opening a second office in Gatineau to staff bilingual techs with the objective to just load way up on techs so that no matter what we can handle the extra volume. Up until now we had trained CSR'S to take some tech calls to prop up the TSR's when needed but then that results in comments that our tech support completely sucks if it happens to be a really savvy customer with a csr who's doing their best to try to help but naturally they're not technical, no matter how much we train them, so it results in a nasty post about how we don't know what we're doing... Mean while our techs very much know what they're doing but we had to add hybrids to the mix to accommodate... So then this leads to a sense that everything has gone for a shit but it really hasn't and we have thousands more people who don't have problems but the squeaky wheel gets the attention.

At the end of the year last year, we decided to go gang busters and just hire more people than we needed knowing that with the growth it would eventually add up.. Then the DHCP and captaincy issues happened and had to put stop sells and it resulted in having to lay those people off.. So that's a ton of wasted resources and lost experience.. The plan was that by this peak season they would have had a years worth of training and we'd be golden... Basically trying to get ahead of the skill gap as a result of the vacuum that gets created when you dilute the corporate knowledge pool so much so quickly..

It's not for lack of trying to get on top of it.. It's not for lack of caring.. Combine that with all these other issues.. It's made it more difficult.

The wait times I think are the number one issue that really causes everything else to snowball. If at least communication stays high while these issues happen, it makes all the difference. It really leaves people feeling like we're part of the problem even though they're offline due to something else completely... You never read that our staff wasn't polite or didn't try to help... You always read that the wait times are long.. Our support sucks because wait times are long. Instead of 'your wait times suck'... Support once I got it, from the people who were intended to take support calls was great, but I can't say that now because I'm too pissed for waiting on hold with that shitty music..

Overall, I feel that the area that we've been the most guilty is simply a lack of focus on the small stuff. We've focused so strongly on all the big problems we were faced with, now those are largely out of the way and properly dealt with. Now it's time to focus on the small stuff, really amp that up and that's what I'm saying we've started to do these last few weeks, that's the stuff I really love and that's the place where I really know how to do that. All I can really say is to stay tuned, I'm bringing it. I think we've learnt a great deal from all of this and now we're in the process of implementing it all and really working with our managers.. Our vendors... Our customers.. To iron out the kinks, I honestly think we're not that far off once the wait times are solved. It may not look like it to some but we have come a long way since last year.. This time last year I'd say was the absolute low point for a number of reasons. It's been getting better since then...

...just random thoughts, I feel regardless like even with frustration, most of you just want us to succeed, I appreciate that and in return, I'm trying to own up, but I do need help. I can't do it alone. We all need to work together and I'm even including people like Pete in there who do great work and together we're slowly changing Canada for the better.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to rocca

Cool right that's what I was told that it would take a few months... Just about when they run out of IPs.. Hehe
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy