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nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium Member
join:2002-05-31
AZ

1 recommendation

nightdesigns to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil

Re: Help blocking heat from sun SE side of house

It pulls 900w/hr when running. It actually saved me money because I didn't have to cool the entire house for 1 room. I did a write-up on the original which is here: »Re: Thoughts on Portable Airconditioners . It's been 3 years and still going strong, used almost daily and during the summer for 8-10 hours/day. About once a year I do open it up and clean everything out and grease up the fans, but cooling wise still strong.

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil to OldCableGuy

Premium Member

to OldCableGuy
said by OldCableGuy :

There are special thermal backed shades that work wonders, they're $15 each at Wal-Mart.

I checked my WalMart, and they didn't have any..happen to have a link?
ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

1 recommendation

ke4pym to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
said by Koil:

said by nightdesigns:

How about a portable AC unit (freestanding, not window)? I got one a few years back for the bedroom which is located on the southwest corner of the house in AZ and was poorly insulated. Works great, easy setup and only a few hundred $$. Plus it is movable if needed.

I'll check into these...Any idea of how hard that hit your power bill?

I'm in the same boat as you are. I've got full tint on the windows, insulating drapes, fully insulated garage, the works.

The only way you're going to fix this issue is to put active cooling in that room (either via window A/C, portable A/C or getting your house A/C adjusted/fixed/whatever to address this). I have an LG 13kbtu upright AC unit »www.lg.com/us/portable-a ··· itioners that vents out the window on a dedicated 20A circuit.

Even with 2 registers and a return in that room, the house air just can't keep up with the heat demands of that room (even with the electronics off).

When the time comes to put a new A/C system in the house (probably in the next 5-8 years, system is 12 years old now) I'll ask a lot of questions about how to cool that room without using the upright. Until then, that's the only solution.

I'd say, middle of summer cranking full blast, it adds probably 50-75 to the bill.

Also, because the house air takes care of the humidity, this thing *never* needs to be drained. Ever.

Stay away from the Frididaire products. They're made by Whirlpool now and they SUUUCK. My first upright was a Fridge. It worked one day. I turn it off and unplug it to go on vacation. Come home a week later, plug it back in and it would only dehumidify. It wouldn't cool.

The warranty process suuuucked. Eventually got a replacement. It died 8 months later. Got an LG and have been happy since.
ke4pym

ke4pym to workablob

Premium Member

to workablob
said by workablob:

I tried running a Proliant DL380 server in my office.

Why on earth? I'd hate to see your power bill. And can you still hear?

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil to ke4pym

Premium Member

to ke4pym
said by ke4pym:

I'm in the same boat as you are. I've got full tint on the windows, insulating drapes, fully insulated garage, the works.

Thanks for the post.

I read on another site that adding a return to this room may help things....anyone have any thoughts on that?

OldCableGuy
@planetcr.net

OldCableGuy to Koil

Anon

to Koil
Not sure if I am allowed to post links as a guest, but a simple search of Wal-Mart.Com for Thermal Backed Curtains found this:

»www.walmart.com/ip/Premi ··· 10924062

I have the shorter ones on my windows since they're smaller windows.

davidg
Good Bye My Friend
MVM
join:2002-06-15
00000

1 recommendation

davidg to Koil

MVM

to Koil
cheap method is foil on the inside of the windows. tape it up and in the winter just pull it down. IF this gives the needed results, then you can work towards buying proper black out curtains.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
Low-E window film. Dark tint is useless unless it is Low-E.
You can get rolls of it a Lowes or HD.
»www.lowes.com/SearchCata ··· dow+film

Or replace the windows with triple-pane Low-E windows....you can get 2 Low-E coatings & argon layers in a window like this.

If you're going to be in the house a while, consider planting some pyramidal cedars near the window (2'-3' away). You can get them up to 7' tall at most nurseries and if you water them 3+ times per week they will grow about 2' per year until they reach about 20' tall. This will prevent a lot of the solar gain from reaching the windows in the first place.

Consider what you're using the machines for - can you downsize to a newer set of laptops for better compute power and less heat? How about Intel Atom or equivalent powered machines?

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya to Koil

MVM

to Koil
^This^

The only thing I'll add is not to get film that goes on the inside of the window. It can ruin windows. Only get products that apply to the outside of the window.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
said by Koil:

said by sempergoofy:

Are you sure it is the solar heating through the windows and not radiant heat from your ceiling that is the biggest culprit? I am presuming your upstairs office ceiling is adjacent to the attic space. If there is not adequate attic cooling and ceiling insulation, you could be getting a lot of heat that way.

Now that is something I hadn't considered. I don't know if thats the case or not, but it does get pretty damn hot up there....but it's also insulated pretty well. I forget to which rating, but its the cellulose stuff, and pretty deep.

But you're right, it is right against the attic.

Is your roof properly vented? If it is then the temperature in the attic should NOT be much more than ambient air temperature.

What colour are your shingles? Black? If so, re-roof with a lighter colour - grey, driftwood shades, etc....

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob to ke4pym

Member

to ke4pym
Not as loud as the 2 Proliant 5500's I ran for 5 years in the garage.

Electricity is not bad when compared to the real money drains called AC, Pool Pump, Hot Tub.



Dave

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Is your roof properly vented? If it is then the temperature in the attic should NOT be much more than ambient air temperature.

What colour are your shingles? Black? If so, re-roof with a lighter colour - grey, driftwood shades, etc....

Appreciate the suggestion, but thats a pretty pricey solution....unless you've got 10k I can borrow have?

(Fair warning: The 10k may not actually go to re-roofing the house)
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

How new is your roof?
"20-year" shingles are usually really only good for 15 years.

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil

Premium Member

said by MaynardKrebs:

How new is your roof?
"20-year" shingles are usually really only good for 15 years.

Less than 10 years old.

And as far as the temp in the attic...I live in SC, it's ALWAYS hot in there, but is it actively cooled / fanned...no.

Bamafan2277
Premium Member
join:2008-09-20
Jeffersonville, IN

Bamafan2277 to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
said by Koil:

said by Bamafan2277:

I have the insulated drapes in the bedrooms of my apartment. One of the rooms has 3 walls facing outside so it gets real hot with windows on 2 sides in the summer and real cold in the winter. After I added the heavy shades it made a good 15 degree difference.

Any particular kind, or just something heavy? I would imagine that even if they absorb the heat from the window, it'd still just heat up the shade and thus heat up the room, no?

Was wondering if it needed to be reflective.

These are the brand I have. not quite the same style but they work real well to darken and insulate the room. »www.walmart.com/ip/Eclip ··· 21907335

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
Click for full size
Any chance you could plant a tree that would grow to a large shade tree? This is slow process and may not be feasible, but it helps. Also don't plant it too close to the house.

Other then that, you could try adding insulation to that upstairs room.... and by all means, tinted windows and window shades DO help some.

Good luck!

Also, something I do to save electricity: This fan powerful, moves a lot of air... (but somewhat noisy). Really helps though, makes me feel better and saves turning down the A/C.

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil

Premium Member

said by KrK:

Any chance you could plant a tree that would grow to a large shade tree? This is slow process and may not be feasible, but it helps. Also don't plant it too close to the house.

Other then that, you could try adding insulation to that upstairs room.... and by all means, tinted windows and window shades DO help some.

Good luck!

Also, something I do to save electricity: This fan powerful, moves a lot of air... (but somewhat noisy). Really helps though, makes me feel better and saves turning down the A/C.

Thanks for the suggestions....I have a fan in the door now....haven't quite figured out if blowing in or exhausting out is more beneficial.

You can tell the temp diff as soon as you step into the hall, which is why I was wondering about putting a return in the office, to see if it would move some of that air.

Pacrat
Old and Cranky
MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH

Pacrat to Koil

MVM

to Koil
Mini-Venetian blinds! Cheap and effective... short of window tinting or window replacement.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
said by Koil:

said by MaynardKrebs:

How new is your roof?
"20-year" shingles are usually really only good for 15 years.

Less than 10 years old.

And as far as the temp in the attic...I live in SC, it's ALWAYS hot in there, but is it actively cooled / fanned...no.

You don't need to 'fan' the attic.

Just make sure that you have proper unobstructed air paths between soffit vents and peak/ridge vents and it will cool as close to ambient as it can via natural convection.

Do this and the other suggestions I made, add in some blinds/curtains with either a white or silver back (or Hunter Douglas honeycomb heat blinds) and you're doing all you can using passive means without spending big bucks on A/C units.

dMarks
Melting Faces For Fun
Premium Member
join:2007-02-09
Jackson, MI

1 recommendation

dMarks to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
Rule of thumb: "Hot air rises"

How much hot air is your lower floors pushing to the upper? Insulating or otherwise trying to combat the heat on the upper floors "may" start with what is below you.

Just some food for thought. It helped a friend of mine out with a similar problem.

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
Options:

Cheap:
-Low-E film (be wary of metalized films if you depend on cellphone reception, etc...) I've never used this so YMMV.
-Levolor blinds (»www.levolor.com/products ··· ings.php)
-room fan (exhaust)

Higher cost:
-HVAC return (you mention there is none) $$$-$$$$
-Mini-split (samsung or other wall mount) $$$$
-Low-E window installation $$$
-awning $$$

If the sun is heating up that room from window, and there is thermal contribution (server farm?), you might consider reducing both sources of BTUs or cooling the PCs more efficiently, along with reflecting the sun.

I think a tree is nice green thought but time, leaves, weather, height, species... may not be practical.

Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium Member
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA

Voxxjin to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
said by Koil:

Thanks for the suggestions....I have a fan in the door now....haven't quite figured out if blowing in or exhausting out is more beneficial.

Our sunrooms are the same way. They tend to get very hot even with the blinds closed. I would put awnings on it but it is base housing and a historical building so that won't happen. No AC vents in there either. Some people have put the portable AC units in there which work well. Some have put the window AC units in there as well. I personally use a fan in the doorway. I use this fan. »www.lowes.com/pd_153139- ··· cetInfo=

I have it sitting a few outside the sunroom directing the cooler air in. And since I can direct the air a little better I aim it for the area I usually will be at. Yes it is a little noisy compared to other fans but it works for me. It can really blast the air into the room, far better than your typical fan, imo.
sludgehound
join:2007-03-12
New York, NY

sludgehound to Koil

Member

to Koil
Small thing but if using a hot HD or two, the new SSDs are very efficient, low wattage, and no fans since stay cool.
Had a friend who put a big fish tank in window. Cool and its presence is soothing. Rem that hot air rises so upside down shades are cool. Run them up from bottom, leave them down at top for heat to escape when not on a/c.
Avoid foods that jack up body temp on hot days - coffee is bad one. Go with ice tea or Skinny water things.

Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium Member
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA

Voxxjin

Premium Member

said by sludgehound:

Had a friend who put a big fish tank in window.

Down here is I put my fish tank in the window, I'd boil the fish alive.

Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV

1 edit

1 recommendation

Beezel to Koil

Member

to Koil
I would say portable or window swamp cooler (evaporative cooler) which hardly use any electricity. But being in SC which has some humidity to it probably would not work to well (must be in low humid area). Here in the low humidity desert climate they work like a charm and save on the electricity the A/C uses. I have one in my man cave, also one on the patio, and in the garage.
boaterbob
Premium Member
join:2005-08-01
Moncks Corner, SC

1 recommendation

boaterbob

Premium Member

Many good suggestions already made, so just some basic thoughts. South Carolina does get hot in the summer but the humidity is also a factor in SC!

With no AC register in the room being discussed I suspect the humidity may make the room 'feel' hot so a dehumidifier could help. An excellent dehumidifier is the Winix model WDH871. Home Depot sells a Winix model very similar but theirs does NOT have auto re-start (if you seldom have power outages or you are mostly home to restart the unit after a power outage then this feature is no big deal). Costco also sells these units. But, most places are out of stock until the humidity season begins again in the summer. Also, where would you put the water drain hose? Or buy a unit w/o the built-in pump and you empty the drain pan as needed. Winix is a good brand IMO.

The suggestion to use a thermal heat gun to identify the areas of highest heat is excellent - you can buy cheap guns from Home Depot or Harbor Freight (and always use the 20% off coupon). Point the gun at the ceiling, at the window, at the floor, etc - where is the heat coming from?

If you have a typical sub-division home built in SC the ridge vent / soffit vent concept probably does not work well. You need to go up in the attic to check this concept - see if the soffit vents are plugged up with insulation. Does there seem to be air movement up and out the ridge vent - if not then the attic temp will get very hot and the heat will move thru the attic into the rooms below.

You can put in gable vents (even powered ones) but they will defeat the air flow of a properly working ridge vent. Or maybe a window exhaust fan to move the room heat out of the house and draw in some cool (and dehumidified) air from the AC cooled rooms.

good luck
chuckkk
join:2001-11-10
Warner Robins, GA

chuckkk to nunya

Member

to nunya
Don't know about ruining windows. Inside solar film is common in Florida. It's removed with a solution of dish detergent and some ammonia, along with a razor blade. (Been There Done That, etc.)

Blogger
Jedi Poster
Premium Member
join:2012-10-18

2 edits

Blogger to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
My post is a bit of an addendum or add on to the op that is posted both for reference to the OP and to seek related advice regarding my situation.

I live in a bungalow with a V shaped roof. One half of the V faces south. I live in one of the warmest areas of very sunny California.

For the first twelve years I lived here a giant oak tree provided shade to large areas of the roof.

Then this spring the oak needed some serious trimming. The result produced a fully exposed to the sun south side of the roof. I have A/C but on warm days and definitely on hot days it can't even begin to keep up now. Before the trimming, no problem. My hot month electric bill has now doubled.

I don't have a solution for the afternoon in the summer but after the sun sets and the outside temperature drops a cheap but efficient special window fan helps a lot--but still not on par with an A/C.

The fan is a unit that has two fans and the unit is very portable and lightweight. It is very adaptable adjustable to fit any window and incredibly light as well as simple to put in or take out of the window. You simply open the window and whether it opens vertically or horizontally you easily can temporarily position the unit in the open gap. The two fans in the unit have three speeds and both fans can be switched independently to either exhaust air from inside out or to suck in air from outside to the inside.

Since the tree has been trimmed the temperature of the roof is hot to the point that if you touched the roof you would immediately significantly burn your hand.

Bottom line is if the temperature outside is below a certain point, oh about 80, the fan unit I described is excellent and it contribution dramatically increases with a decrease in the outside temperature. It would be even better if I had a second one that could supplement the one I have now. (By the way the electricity to run them is minimal and they are very quiet.)

Looking at the temp readings provided as 83 outside and 90 inside and depending upon the sunlight the fans I refer to potentially would really help. (They are also relatively cheap to buy and surprisingly are very long lasting or durable.)

ADDENDUM: For me I mentally wonder if some sort of artificial or man made "structure or screen that was practical and cheap could be made to provide shade for the south side of my roof as the sun beating down on and heating the roof is 90 percent of the problem.
ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA

ctggzg to Koil

Premium Member

to Koil
said by Koil:

Currently , it says it's 78.4 in the office....nice and cool in comparison to what it normally is, but the thermostat for the rest of the house is 74. I don't expect to reach that temp, but keeping it below 80 would be nice.

Partially closing the A/C vents in the rest of the house and opening the vent in the office all the way might balance out the temperatures better.

Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV

Beezel to boaterbob

Member

to boaterbob
said by boaterbob:

Many good suggestions already made, so just some basic thoughts. South Carolina does get hot in the summer but the humidity is also a factor in SC!

With no AC register in the room being discussed I suspect the humidity may make the room 'feel' hot so a dehumidifier could help.

A dehumidifier does put out heat also when running. So may be a catch 22.