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sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to NormanS

Re: ISP Monitoring

So the question that you bolded was really an answer, to my answer, that you were rhetorically saying? If you say so...

Btw, there is no need to be sarcastic and abrasive.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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join:2001-02-14
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{Throws hands in air.}

I give up.


sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

Maturity---You ought to give it a try sometime. You may like it.



NormanS
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said by sandman_1:

Maturity

I prefer obstinate stupidity, thanks ...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

1 edit
reply to brianiscool

Would the 6 Strikes still apply even for TOR users? My thoughts were that those ISPs were identifying pirates due to actual packet monitoring. If that's the case, would what's used to pirate really matter? Now sure if that's true though.



NormanS
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said by S1R1US:

Would the 6 Strikes still apply even for TOR users? My thoughts were that those ISPs were identifying pirates due to actual packet monitoring. If that's the case, would what's used to pirate really matter? Now sure if that's true though.

The ISPs are not monitoring anything (well, not specifically looking for pirates), they are responding to third party DMCA complaints.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

A friend of mine from up north said he received a letter stating the exact names of the movies he was illegally pirating. He only uses piratebay. Are we saying 3rd parties are reporting users simply by watching what IP addresses are associated with a torrent tracker? I was under the impression that 6 Strikes ISPs are identifying this information on their own.



NormanS
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said by S1R1US:

A friend of mine from up north said he received a letter stating the exact names of the movies he was illegally pirating. He only uses piratebay. Are we saying 3rd parties are reporting users simply by watching what IP addresses are associated with a torrent tracker? I was under the impression that 6 Strikes ISPs are identifying this information on their own.

What does Piratebay have to do with it? Or did you think that agents of the MPAA/RIAA are "badged", and easily made by them? All it takes is for an agent of the MPAA/RIAA to get hold of a tracker; and God knows there are plenty of IP Puritans who post here, surely such can get access to "private" trackers!

Out of a random stream of bits, how would the ISP know which are copyright protected, and which aren't?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

As originally stated, I referenced TPB because that's the only method my friend uses to download non-legal content.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'agents of the mpaa/riaa are badged, and easily made by them'

Well I don't know that it would be a 'random stream of bits'. Don't most ISPs employ network monitoring tools such as Wireshark? Which is a system that not only tracks packets but can read and record each and every packet sent/received. It doesn't seem like a major feat to detect a movie name in headers.

It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to identify what content is illegal would it? I mean if someone is identified as downloading the new Avengers 2 movie only days after it's released...



NormanS
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TPB isn't the only source of .torrent trackers. And "private, by invitation" torrent sites aren't immune to penetration by copyright enforcement agents.

The agents of the MPAA/RIAA are hired ... hmm, I guess sorta like PIs. And they do their damnedest not to be obvious as such, so that they can insinuate themselves into private tracker sources.

Well, yes, ISPs can do DPI; but they probably move thousands of terabytes of data an hour on a national scale. And how will they distinguish an innocuous search for a movie from a torrent download? Google The Hurt Locker, then go to the resulting hit at 'www.imdb.com'. Do you know how many packet headers will carry that title?

The number of copyright works is phenomenal. Do you think it would be cost effective for the ISPs to implement the search algorithms to alert on them all or even some subset, distinguishing innocuous searches from BitTorrent trackers? The search effort would raise the cost of Internet services.

The MPAA/RIAA hire firms akin to PI and security operations to do the legwork, then fire off DMCA takedown notices to the ISPs which assign the IP addresses to the offending users.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

I may have been misunderstood, I haven't quite said 'the only way to be caught is by ISPs monitoring packet data'. It's quite obvious TPB isn't the only source of torrent trackers and even more clear there wouldn't be much trouble getting onto them. Considering agencies on a yearly basis gain access to underground ftp topsites where all the material is originating from in the first place, all that kind of goes without saying, you know?

The obvious challenge of deep packet inspection on millions of customers is quite clear. However, wouldn't it make sense to not monitor everyone? Also, I think it would make sense to focus in on higher traffic users. I mean, withe 95% of a provider's BW being used by 1% of users, it's safe to say they get the most bang for their buck by not wasting time and resources on each and every single occurrence. Or, at the very least initially starting from the top and working down, letting the buzz and publicity lower usage by consumers organically...

We would both probably be mistaken to just assume that packets can only be monitored based on unintelligent keywords that don't lend any valuable information on their own. DPI isn't exactly a google search for packets. Would it be a mistake to suggest that ISPs can easily identify what type of files are being downloaded? jpg, gif, png, xml, exe, msi, etc, and of course .torrent. I should think so.

I truly don't know if the ISPs are simply a facilitator of communication, but I think many would actually prefer the limited scale you reference where it's contracted companies tracking down IP addresses and just reporting them.

Do you by chance know of any materials online that actually directly discuss how torrent users are being identified?



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

Actually, I wonder if this article is referencing the 'agents' that are manually going out and finding users and reporting the IP addresses to the ISPs.

»www.techdirt.com/articles/201210···aa.shtml

Here's a reference of some tool called 'MarkMonitor' which seems to possibly be what's used to collect the data?

»www.extremetech.com/internet/140···-to-know


evoxllx

join:2007-06-07
Winter Park, FL
reply to brianiscool

Everyone must have forgot about Room 641A.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A



NormanS
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That is not the ISP monitoring of data. That is the NSA monitoring of data. Allowed by AT&T on their backbone well before SBC Borged them into being a ILEC. Any ISP using AT&T Tier 1 transit has their traffic monitored by the NSA. Probably Verizon Tier 1 transit, as well.

I expect that all traffic traversing U.S. corporate run backbones is monitored by the NSA.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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1 edit
reply to S1R1US

said by S1R1US:

Actually, I wonder if this article is referencing the 'agents' that are manually going out and finding users and reporting the IP addresses to the ISPs.

Based on reports by users in a couple of the DSLR forums, the infringement letters sent by the ISPs are "DMCA Takedown Notices", meaning somebody sent a letter of complaint to the ISP, who then forwarded the complaint to the putative infringer. A club member brought such to a meeting once, to get our opinion. It was clear that the letter resulted from a third party complaint. The ISP would not have said, "It has been brought to our attention by {%Name/Address_of_Complaining_Party%}" if they had detected the infringing activity by in-house traffic monitoring.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

Makes sense. Good to know.