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hm

@videotron.ca
reply to yyzlhr

Re: Rogers secretely removes $50 Max Charge on Rocket Hub

said by yyzlhr:

said by hm :

said by yyzlhr:

You cannot file a joint complaint to the CCTS.

Well that isn't exactly right.

I believe the rules changed a little over a year ago where an entity can file on a group behalf.

An entity such as PIAC.ca or the Quebec consumers Union (who will also take Ontario requests for help), or CIPPIC.ca

So this one entity (like a consumer group, or other) can file on behalf of a whole bunch of people.

So, in a way yes, they can collaborate on a complaint, and some one can file for them (if they take the time to find someone).

The CCTS is there to help consumers resolve disputes that are specific to their account. Why would it make sense to allow people to file joint complaints when it is not regarding the same account?

Seriously. If you are going to pretend to know what you are talking about, at least have the balls to say that you aren't sure, or don't really know before trying to discourage people from filing as a group, or to seek help from a consumer group to have it all consolidated.

6.16 The Commissioner may consolidate, and take action with respect to, two or more complaints filed by or on behalf of two or more Customers relating to the same Participating Service Provider and arising from the same transaction or occurrence or series of transactions or occurrences

6.17 Subject to Section 6.18, the Commissioner shall not consider and shall take no action with respect to a single complaint filed by or on behalf of more than one Customer.

6.18 Notwithstanding Section 6.17, the Commissioner may take action with respect to a complaint filed by or on behalf of one or more Customers, provided that:
(a) each Customer to which the complaint relates is specifically identified and has authorized that the complaint be filed on behalf of such Customer;
(b) the complaint relates to the same Participating Service Provider and arises from the same transaction or occurrence or series of transactions or occurrences; and
(c) the Commissioner considers that it is appropriate and efficient to do so.


I don't see your purpose in discouraging people to trying to pretend things aren't true.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:2

said by hm :

Seriously. If you are going to pretend to know what you are talking about, at least have the balls to say that you aren't sure, or don't really know before trying to discourage people from filing as a group, or to seek help from a consumer group to have it all consolidated.

6.16 The Commissioner may consolidate, and take action with respect to, two or more complaints filed by or on behalf of two or more Customers relating to the same Participating Service Provider and arising from the same transaction or occurrence or series of transactions or occurrences

6.17 Subject to Section 6.18, the Commissioner shall not consider and shall take no action with respect to a single complaint filed by or on behalf of more than one Customer.

6.18 Notwithstanding Section 6.17, the Commissioner may take action with respect to a complaint filed by or on behalf of one or more Customers, provided that:
(a) each Customer to which the complaint relates is specifically identified and has authorized that the complaint be filed on behalf of such Customer;
(b) the complaint relates to the same Participating Service Provider and arises from the same transaction or occurrence or series of transactions or occurrences; and
(c) the Commissioner considers that it is appropriate and efficient to do so.


I don't see your purpose in discouraging people to trying to pretend things aren't true.

I'm not trying to pretend anything. That's great that their procedural code allows it, but if you look at their complaint form, there is no option to file a complaint with someone else. Also, the CCTS has to approve of the complaints being filed together so IMO, you'd just be wasting more time waiting for them to approve the complaints to be consolidated together when the time can be spent reviewing the arguments and evidence presented by both sides.

serpico06

join:2012-10-30
reply to hm

Just spent 4 hours trying to resolve this, with no progress. Basically had the girl picking her words carefully to say that overages have been reflected on this month's bill without admitting that as of this month there has been a change to my contract so that I now actually get charged for sed overages. Going to contact the CCTS tommorow and see what they have to say. Apparently its not written down anywhere but i have 2 and a 1/2 years of bills that show the 50$ cap in place. If anyone has suggestions for wireless isp providers near caledon, that would be appreciated. Looking into ica and xplornet atm.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:2

said by serpico06:

Tbh all his post on this page sounds like he's a rogers employee using scare tactics... Just spent 4 hours trying to resolve this, with no progress. Basically had the girl picking her words carefully to say that overages have been reflected on this month's bill without admitting that as of this month there has been a change to my contract so that I now actually get charged for sed overages. Going to contact the CCTS tommorow and see what they have to say. Apparently its not written down anywhere but i have 2 and a 1/2 years of bills that show the 50$ cap in place. If anyone has suggestions for wireless isp providers near caledon, that would be appreciated. Looking into ica and xplornet atm.

I'm not a rogers employee. I have worked with them in the past in various capacities and simply providing my knowledge and experience so that people have a better understanding of why things are the way they are. I could care less whether people file complaints against Rogers, I do not have any stake in the company, I do not own any shares so it really does not matter to me.

@serpico06, there is no change to your contract. No where in the service agreement, terms of service, or in their marketing collateral does it indicate that there is a $50 cap on overage charges. This is not a feature of the service you signed up for nor was it every written into your contract.

You're free to argue that by not charging you more than $50 for such an extended period of time infers that this is an actual feature of the product or that it is the same as actually having it in your service agreement. That's what the CCTS is there for. I did not intend to discourage people from filing with the CCTS, in fact I've provided advice earlier in this thread on how one can bolster their case with the CCTS. I was simply indicating that Rogers is well within their rights to change this cap without notice under these circumstances and that generally speaking, this is not a CCTS complaint. I changed my opinion when I was informed that the OP was told on multiple occasions that an overage cap did in fact exist.

My ultimate goal is that consumers understand every aspect of the services that they sign up for. The stuff I post in these forums are simply my analysis of the situation based on what I know from my industry experience. They are not necessarily my personal opinions, nor do I expect people to like what I have to say or agree with any of my analyses. My intent is simply to provide an explanation as to why something is happening the way it is and to provide realistic advice when possible.

serpico06

join:2012-10-30

While I appreciate you trying to inform me, trying to tell me what I was told when I signed up for the service and throughout the use of said service is simply ridiculous. They may not have it written down anywhere, but throughout my contract I have been told by them that I did in fact have a cap, both through my bills and through phone conversations. My bill never indicated that I would be charged for overages, nor did it mention that overages might at some point be applied. Just a month ago they called about an upgrade, at which point they told me not to bother because the overage fees without the cap that I had in place would be extremely high. The fact of the matter is that they decided to remove a feature that they offered, both without any notice AND denying that it even ever existed. If they said, "ok from this point forth you will no longer have this cap" then I could have cancelled my service ahead of time and avoided a $300 bill for service that doesnt even deserve a $20 monthly payment tbh. $300.00 with less than 1Mbit/s and a 10gb cap for a residential internet service in 2012 is simply absurd. Its like they dont want me to use the internet...


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:2

All I said is that there is nothing written or advertised about this cap which is completely true. I never said anything about what you were told verbally. As I suggested to the OP, you should write to the privacy office to obtain account notes or call transcripts where you were told about the $50 cap and present them to the CCTS. Without that evidence, there is no CCTS case IMO.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to yyzlhr

It is in fact a material change in service. In addition, a material change in service requires Rogers to notify you (and you should state these two little sentences in your complaint as you fight the additional charges).



sheez

@videotron.ca
reply to serpico06

serpico06, ignore yyzlhr. Your bills for the past 2.5-years are proof enough you had it. File your complaint and make note that call records should also contain this as you stated.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to m109rider

don't you LOVE how you're locked in to a contract with no bargaining power but if Rogers wants to raise/lower your speeds or your caps or raise the price of your service they're allowed and you're locked in.

A contract should remain an honorable contract. What i signed up for is what i get until the end of my term in which case may change upon renewal.

Not at Rogers.

They do not care about loosing a customer, honestly i think it's better for them to loose some customers to avoid having too much of the market share since they are so large.

As much as we all wish, hope and dream Rogers goes dead one day, unfortunately it'll never happen. Even if they had to file chapter 11, our government would bail them out. They are here to stay and i promise you nothing will change with them.

They will not one day care, they are as is Bell and the rest of the big ones all leeches, sucking every penny out of a home they can.


m109rider

join:2012-10-24
Thornhill, ON

2 recommendations

reply to m109rider

Hello everyone! I just wanted to give you an update on the situation. I am the OP.

I filed a complaint with the CCTS and provided billing evidence, as well as a description of the phone service I got (Long hold, annoyed CS rep).

They sent me back a reply saying they have reviewed my case, and it DOES fall within their scope mandate.

We have received your complaint XXXXXX and hereby advise you that your complaint falls within the scope of our mandate and will be processed in accordance with our Procedural Code (the “Code”),

What this means is that Rogers has to respond in writing to the CCTS and myself either accepting the claim or to argue it... waiting for that response.

The second thing is, I've filed a story with cellphonehorrorstory.ca which is the same organization that works with STOPTHEMETER which you may remember from last year regarding the UBB billing.

Thirdly, my story here has been passed on to the media. A journalist from the CBC News Marketplace program contacted me via email and asked for my story. I provided it, and she is doing a highlight on how Canadian's are getting screwed by the big 3 for reasons just like this. There will be a camera interview with me in the next month or so.

Fourth, I still have an open ticket with Rogers, they have not contacted me to help resolve the issue.

Everyone I encourage you to NOT give up, send in your complaints and let us be HEARD!! We all don't have the ability to get Cable or DSL to the house, we shouldn't be punished by Rogers for that!



Shhh

@videotron.ca

said by m109rider:

They sent me back a reply saying they have reviewed my case, and it DOES fall within their scope mandate.

Good news. Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

I'd like to see someone try and see if they can force the CCTS to try and give you back what you had (ie the 50$ cap), aside from the pay-back on the "secret removal" of the cap.


bbbc

join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica
kudos:2
Reviews:
·FreedomPop

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to yyzlhr

Re: Rogers secretely removes $50 Overage Charge on Rocket Hub

said by yyzlhr :

This is not a CCTS complaint.

Sure it is.

Rogers has never advertised the a max cap for the Rocket Hub as this information was meant to be internal only so that Rogers can change this aspect at anytime.

Advertised or not, Rogers still offered it and can't yank it away without notice.

There is no need to provide you with notification pertaining to changes to something that was never officially offered.

Are you a Rogers' legal eagle? Give me a break.

Keep in mind, the CCTS does not make decisions based on what the public feels is consumer friendly or not but based on the facts presented by both sides.

Nothing about this relates to consumer friendliness. Rogers had a $50 plan, consumer doesn't monitor their consumption because of all-you-can-eat, where a notice would have saved the day.

You cannot file a joint complaint to the CCTS.

Really, who the hell are you? Whether this guy gets some relief or not, his complaint will be lodged, which it needs to be.

Why do you think the government is trying to finally deal with the typical telco BS in Canada?

--
Consumerist.com | Consumers Union


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to m109rider

Re: Rogers secretely removes $50 Max Charge on Rocket Hub

I say 3 cheers for all the folks on here who are taking it upon themselves to fight Rogers tooth and nail.

Rogers has had free reign to abuse their customers trust for far too long. Integrity is more than just a word in the dictionary to most hard working people and cash is too hard to come by.

Time to end Rogers sense of entitlement and hold them accountable for their actions and inaction.

To those that constantly make excuses for Rogers, we've had enough. Excuses accomplish nothing.

Time for Rogers to Step up or Step out............



rogersmogers

@start.ca
reply to m109rider

CCTS accepts a lot of stuff. Rogers will just come back with what everyone said here. The cap was not offered, not part of your service. Nothing has changed.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:12

Since there is proof that it was offered, the CCTS will be forced into acting.


effram

join:2012-11-01
Orangeville, ON

My past two bills came to $132 which included my contracted highest flex plan rate for 10Gb plus the $50 max overage charge. A couple days ago I clicked on my online bill statement and it said my total owed was $640.50. I was not happy.

I called Rogers support and complained that I didn't think I should be charged this much. I said my past two bills had only come to $132 and I hadn't been notified of any future changes on my online bill statement. After waiting for like an hour for the tech to peruse my file he came to the conclusion that because I was on an older plan which is no longer offered I had indeed been overcharged. He credited my account $508.50 to bring the bill down to the usual $132 from the past two months. I thanked him and after I hung up I checked my account online and it had indeed gone down to that $132 total.

Now, I am quite over the cap for this month. Seeing as it takes Rogers two weeks to send me the previous month's online bill summary for some reason I was unable to cut back my internet usage. Hopefully I won't be on the line next month begging to have my account credited again.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

Since there is proof that it was offered, the CCTS will be forced into acting.

Exactly right. Otherwise correct me if i'm wrong it's a twisted version of bait and switch to snatch extra $$ when the rug is pulled from under the customer at random.

Billing history is proof of it being provided + offered. Doesn't matter if it was a "We're awesome people but shhh don't tell anyone it's an internal document only"

CCTS will do their part

Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

Since there is proof that it was offered, the CCTS will be forced into acting.

Is there really proof though? From what I understand OP has a lot of bills showing the maximum he ever paid, which implies there was a cap on the amount he was being charged.

But does the bill also show how many gigabytes were transferred during that billing period? (I don't know, I've never seen one.) If it does, then it should definitely be obvious there was a cap in place. But if it doesn't show the usage, then it could be argued that OP just used a consistent amount of bandwidth which resulted in consistent billing amounts.

Of course nobody in their right mind would buy that excuse, but just look at the patent mess that's in the news everyday and you'll see that people making important decisions aren't always in their right mind, so who knows which way that could go.

EDIT: Just re-read OP's message (which I originally read awhile ago) and I see that usage amounts are included on the bill, so it seems pretty open and shut...

m109rider

join:2012-10-24
Thornhill, ON

Hi Ree9,

Yes indeed the bills do show the useage amounts.. I was even sure to include 1 bill where I happened to reach 80GB on their service and still only charged $110 + taxes


GroovyPhoenx

join:2006-05-22
Gloucester, ON
reply to Ree

said by Ree:

said by sbrook:

Since there is proof that it was offered, the CCTS will be forced into acting.

But does the bill also show how many gigabytes were transferred during that billing period? (I don't know, I've never seen one.) If it does, then it should definitely be obvious there was a cap in place. But if it doesn't show the usage, then it could be argued that OP just used a consistent amount of bandwidth which resulted in consistent billing amounts.

Don't know about your bill but if Rogers was to charge me an overage charge they better damn well PROVE TO ME they did it which they do on the protion "used XXX mb" otherwise how could they justify charging?


BTW

@videotron.ca
reply to Tx

Where is that Rogers_Mary mouth piece (or whatever the name is) who pops in flaps her lips and fixes people up?

Oh. Guess there are special orders not to help with this one. Must screw with as many people as possible.


Ree

join:2007-04-29
h0h0h0
kudos:1
reply to GroovyPhoenx

said by GroovyPhoenx:

Don't know about your bill but if Rogers was to charge me an overage charge they better damn well PROVE TO ME they did it which they do on the protion "used XXX mb" otherwise how could they justify charging?

I actually never look at my bill. I get the email notice, and as long as it says the same dollar value as the previous month, I don't bother logging on to look. The only time it didn't match was due to my exceeding the cap by a gig or two, so I knew it would be slightly higher so still didn't look.

What you said makes sense though -- I'm sure if I went to look it would tell me how much I exceeded the cap by, and what the exact cost was.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to effram

You'll likely have to call each and every month. I am on an old iphone 4 plane, overage is $5 per 500MB..sold in blocks, since iOS 6 has come out, the phone chews about 10MB/day regardless. Naturally, I was overcharged, but not by what my contract is, but by they're current rules. I did get my money back, but not looking forward to calling them every month if I go over.

To the original poster, who at CBC are you talking to? I am sure a lot of people here have horror stories of Rogers answer the others like Bell.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


Rogers_Chris

join:2010-12-15
Toronto, ON
reply to BTW

Sorry for the delay BTW.

We sent some of our Rocket Hub Customers a letter or email and a bill message between June and July this year to remind them that overages will be charged at $10/GB.

I'm happy to speak privately with customers who received overages so we can review your account. I encourage those of you affected to contact me by private message explaining your overages, along with your first and last name, and a phone number we can reach you.

@Rogers_Chris



hm

@videotron.ca

said by Rogers_Chris:

We sent some of our Rocket Hub Customers a letter or email and a bill message between June and July this year to remind them that overages will be charged at $10/GB.

Why not all affected? Why only some? Why do some get a letter and some an Email?

What differentiates how you communicate with people? Do those with the biggest bill get the better notices? Did all the affected have this stated on their bills?

Seems to me the CCTS is looking into this already, however, will these people be allowed to keep their service as it was? Are you offering special offers to those you insulted and treated like crap? Can you tell us what the CCTS & Rogers has done for those who went the CCTS route? In other words, are people better off going to the CCTS rather than contacting a mouth piece of the company who treated them like crap so said company can cut their CCTS costs and year-end stats?

Rogers_Chris

join:2010-12-15
Toronto, ON

We communicated this change to customers segmented based on whether customers had exceeded their cap at least once in the 6 months prior to the message being sent. Customers who did not exceed the cap got a bill message.

As for the rest of your questions, we'll look into this with our customers on a case-by-case basis. I'll be happy to help those who get in touch with me privately.



PR Guy

@74.198.165.x

Chris, what is your email for a private message? I have also received a rocket hub bill that had me reaching for 911 and my heart attack medicine.


effram

join:2012-11-01
Orangeville, ON

I had to talk to 3 different people before I was able to get someone who understood that I had never received either a bill message or an email informing me of the overage policy change.

The first guy just plain hung up on me. The second person told me that I should be happy because clearly the $50 max overage caps I had been paying were billing errors and by rights I should have paid way more than that. The last person I talked to actually checked my file and because she was unable to verify that I had been informed of any billing changes, she was able to credit the overages for that month.

Hopefully this is resolved now. All I know is that I certainly will try to use the least amount of data possible for the duration of my 2 year contract.



hm

@videotron.ca

said by effram:

Hopefully this is resolved now. All I know is that I certainly will try to use the least amount of data possible for the duration of my 2 year contract.

Ah I understand why the mouthpiece is here now. To keep people locked in contracts?

effram, this is considered a "material change in service" for which you can cancel your contract w/o penalty.

Even if you go to the CCTS they should work this out so that your contract is cancelled, if you so wish, due to the nature of the contractual change to the terms, usage and most importantly billing & costs to you.

Might be in your best interest still to go to the CCTS to get rid of this contract.


JW

@74.198.164.x
reply to Rogers_Chris

Chris,
My bill went from $190 to $850 in one month!
During both phone calls to Rogers dealing with this, the Rogers employee could not find any reference. on any bill, that states the rate is about to dramatically change.
The bill has always said that overages are $10 per gig..........what you are not getting is that 'The Cap' everyone is talking about refers to the monetary amount......The amount you can be charged is Capped!!
I was told by Rogers before I signed (which is why I signed) that whether overages are $10 or $1000 per gig, your bill CANNOT go over a certain dollar amount amount!
In my case $190 per month.
So I'll use 50 gigs and the bill is $190.
Now, suddenly and covertly, 50 gig is like $500!
This is what many people, at Rogers, don't get!

Its a scam!

Well done Rogers, you can happily rip-off your highest paying customers!
I'm on the phone with Rogers now to cancel my service, cancelation fee or not.