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singerie3

join:2008-10-12
Saint-Constant, QC
reply to brianiscool

Re: ISP Monitoring

probably not, it's slow as hell.


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

If you are download small .nzb or .torrent files it should not take long on TOR. Also if the ISP thinks you are download illegal material links. They will send you a notice. Not sure if they will take you to court though.



Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19

You don't get busted for downloading .torrent files. You get busted when you connect to a tracker. As for .nzb, offshore sites and direct-connections means that the primary method of companies finding out who infringes on copyrights is gone. There is no means to intercept communication between you and another person (legally), and this is especially more difficult with SSL, so there is no advantage to using TOR.
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

We will see how deep they will go with packet inspection in two months.



Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19

SSL should fix that.



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

1 edit
reply to brianiscool

Would the 6 Strikes still apply even for TOR users? My thoughts were that those ISPs were identifying pirates due to actual packet monitoring. If that's the case, would what's used to pirate really matter? Now sure if that's true though.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by S1R1US:

Would the 6 Strikes still apply even for TOR users? My thoughts were that those ISPs were identifying pirates due to actual packet monitoring. If that's the case, would what's used to pirate really matter? Now sure if that's true though.

The ISPs are not monitoring anything (well, not specifically looking for pirates), they are responding to third party DMCA complaints.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

A friend of mine from up north said he received a letter stating the exact names of the movies he was illegally pirating. He only uses piratebay. Are we saying 3rd parties are reporting users simply by watching what IP addresses are associated with a torrent tracker? I was under the impression that 6 Strikes ISPs are identifying this information on their own.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by S1R1US:

A friend of mine from up north said he received a letter stating the exact names of the movies he was illegally pirating. He only uses piratebay. Are we saying 3rd parties are reporting users simply by watching what IP addresses are associated with a torrent tracker? I was under the impression that 6 Strikes ISPs are identifying this information on their own.

What does Piratebay have to do with it? Or did you think that agents of the MPAA/RIAA are "badged", and easily made by them? All it takes is for an agent of the MPAA/RIAA to get hold of a tracker; and God knows there are plenty of IP Puritans who post here, surely such can get access to "private" trackers!

Out of a random stream of bits, how would the ISP know which are copyright protected, and which aren't?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

As originally stated, I referenced TPB because that's the only method my friend uses to download non-legal content.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'agents of the mpaa/riaa are badged, and easily made by them'

Well I don't know that it would be a 'random stream of bits'. Don't most ISPs employ network monitoring tools such as Wireshark? Which is a system that not only tracks packets but can read and record each and every packet sent/received. It doesn't seem like a major feat to detect a movie name in headers.

It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to identify what content is illegal would it? I mean if someone is identified as downloading the new Avengers 2 movie only days after it's released...



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

TPB isn't the only source of .torrent trackers. And "private, by invitation" torrent sites aren't immune to penetration by copyright enforcement agents.

The agents of the MPAA/RIAA are hired ... hmm, I guess sorta like PIs. And they do their damnedest not to be obvious as such, so that they can insinuate themselves into private tracker sources.

Well, yes, ISPs can do DPI; but they probably move thousands of terabytes of data an hour on a national scale. And how will they distinguish an innocuous search for a movie from a torrent download? Google The Hurt Locker, then go to the resulting hit at 'www.imdb.com'. Do you know how many packet headers will carry that title?

The number of copyright works is phenomenal. Do you think it would be cost effective for the ISPs to implement the search algorithms to alert on them all or even some subset, distinguishing innocuous searches from BitTorrent trackers? The search effort would raise the cost of Internet services.

The MPAA/RIAA hire firms akin to PI and security operations to do the legwork, then fire off DMCA takedown notices to the ISPs which assign the IP addresses to the offending users.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

I may have been misunderstood, I haven't quite said 'the only way to be caught is by ISPs monitoring packet data'. It's quite obvious TPB isn't the only source of torrent trackers and even more clear there wouldn't be much trouble getting onto them. Considering agencies on a yearly basis gain access to underground ftp topsites where all the material is originating from in the first place, all that kind of goes without saying, you know?

The obvious challenge of deep packet inspection on millions of customers is quite clear. However, wouldn't it make sense to not monitor everyone? Also, I think it would make sense to focus in on higher traffic users. I mean, withe 95% of a provider's BW being used by 1% of users, it's safe to say they get the most bang for their buck by not wasting time and resources on each and every single occurrence. Or, at the very least initially starting from the top and working down, letting the buzz and publicity lower usage by consumers organically...

We would both probably be mistaken to just assume that packets can only be monitored based on unintelligent keywords that don't lend any valuable information on their own. DPI isn't exactly a google search for packets. Would it be a mistake to suggest that ISPs can easily identify what type of files are being downloaded? jpg, gif, png, xml, exe, msi, etc, and of course .torrent. I should think so.

I truly don't know if the ISPs are simply a facilitator of communication, but I think many would actually prefer the limited scale you reference where it's contracted companies tracking down IP addresses and just reporting them.

Do you by chance know of any materials online that actually directly discuss how torrent users are being identified?



S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

Actually, I wonder if this article is referencing the 'agents' that are manually going out and finding users and reporting the IP addresses to the ISPs.

»www.techdirt.com/articles/201210···aa.shtml

Here's a reference of some tool called 'MarkMonitor' which seems to possibly be what's used to collect the data?

»www.extremetech.com/internet/140···-to-know



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

1 edit

said by S1R1US:

Actually, I wonder if this article is referencing the 'agents' that are manually going out and finding users and reporting the IP addresses to the ISPs.

Based on reports by users in a couple of the DSLR forums, the infringement letters sent by the ISPs are "DMCA Takedown Notices", meaning somebody sent a letter of complaint to the ISP, who then forwarded the complaint to the putative infringer. A club member brought such to a meeting once, to get our opinion. It was clear that the letter resulted from a third party complaint. The ISP would not have said, "It has been brought to our attention by {%Name/Address_of_Complaining_Party%}" if they had detected the infringing activity by in-house traffic monitoring.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


S1R1US

join:2002-08-25
Clearwater, FL

Makes sense. Good to know.