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trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

1 recommendation

[WIN7] No Service Pack 2

Microsoft won't release Service Pack 2 for Windows 7

quote:
The engineering team responsible for building and releasing service packs has reportedly been told there won’t be another service pack for Windows 7. It marks the first time in multiple releases that Microsoft won’t be issuing a second major update.
»www.techspot.com/news/50599-micr···s-7.html


My opinion is that this is a bad decision. Sounds like a blatant attempt to push people to the train wreck of an OS called Windows 8.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

If anything, having SP2 released would allow less monthly updates to be installed when you first install Windows 7 onto a system. As an example, I rebuilt my system back on Oct 17th with SP1 built-in to the install media. Still, I had over 100 updates to install from Windows update, that took about an hour to do.

Not to mention the size of these updates was around 400 or 500 MB. While that is not that bad, if you happen to have an ISP with a low monthly data cap, and build 4-5 systems a month, it could put you over the limit. So, maybe the ISP's are behind this? Why release a SP that you can download once and save, when you can install over a 100 updates on a rebuilt, using up 500 MB of your download cap each time you reinstall the OS? Sure, many people don't rebuild their systems every day, but I hope everyone gets the idea that I'm going for here.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to trparky

I find it hard to believe... If support extends all the way till 2020, surely there will be service pack 2 sometime in the next 8 years....



BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:3
reply to trparky

I suppose a Vista SP3 is totally out of the question.


Kerodo

join:2004-05-08

Yeah, that's a lot less likely....


lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to trparky

said by trparky:

My opinion is that this is a bad decision. Sounds like a blatant attempt to push people to the train wreck of an OS called Windows 8.

+1

It's Windows Me/Vista all over again. Oh how quickly MS forgets...


rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
reply to Kerodo

Maybe they think the world will end before 2020, so there's no reason to offer SP2 for Win 7.
--
It is easier for a camel to put on a bikini than an old man to thread a needle.



Maven
Premium
join:2002-03-12
Canada
reply to trparky

Is there anything particularly wrong with Windows 7? It's been rock solid for me.

Sure, a roll-up of updates would be nice, but I don't think this is some mass conspiracy to push Win8. A lot of corporate users are just now moving towards Win7, Microsoft has every reason to fix whatever's wrong with Win7.

said by lorennerol See Profile
It's Windows Me/Vista all over again. Oh how quickly MS forgets...

:

Well XP SP3 came out after Vista, so I'm not sure what you're on about here. Also, there was nothing inherently wrong with Me or Vista aside from shoddy drivers.



Wily_One
Premium
join:2002-11-24
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

If anything, having SP2 released would allow less monthly updates to be installed when you first install Windows 7 onto a system.

^ This. It also ties into the notion that it's is an attempt to push people to Win8, by making dealing with Win7 more painful as time goes on.


Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA
reply to Maven

said by Maven:

Is there anything particularly wrong with Windows 7? It's been rock solid for me.

Same here...I am extremely happy with windows 7. Stable as can be for me.
--
Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to trparky

This article has a reasonable guess at an explanation.

»news.softpedia.com/news/Microsof···19.shtml

"Changing the delivery model" sounds more likely than some of the half-baked conspiracy theories that are around.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to trparky

I guess it really comes down to the question "What is in a Service Pack?"

I see that question having at least two answers

1) New features that were not present in the given OS at time of release

2) A roll-up of all prior Updates (Security and Non-Security) from a given point in time backwards to when the OS (or prior SP) was released.

From what I can tell, there is nothing "wrong" with Windows 7. As many have said, Windows 7 is a rock-solid OS, that really does not need to have "new features" added at this time. So, answer #1 above does not apply.

However, Answer #2 would apply. SP1 for Windows 7 came out in February of 2011. Since then, there has been 20 months of updates (March of 2011 through October of 2012). If we assume an average of 8 updates a month, that would be 160 updates that all could apply to Windows 7.

Now, I know some don't apply directly to Windows 7 (some are office, some are SQL Server, some only apply to the Server side of things, etc), but the point is, there has been a LOT of updates. For someone that does re-install their OS on their own this is a lot of extra work that has to be done.

But, if you look at the enterprise side of things, a re-image of a workstation could happen more often. Having your image contain the latest security updates is an on-going process. However, if there was a way to just install one update (SP2) that would be easier to manage then trying to install 100+ Updates.

So, do I feel we need SP2 to add features to Windows 7? No I don't. However, having SP2 so that those of us (home and corporate) that do re-install Windows 7 don't have to wait hours to download and install 100's of updates each time would be a good thing.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail



RazzyW8

@rr.com
reply to lorennerol

said by lorennerol:

said by trparky:

My opinion is that this is a bad decision. Sounds like a blatant attempt to push people to the train wreck of an OS called Windows 8.

+1

It's Windows Me/Vista all over again. Oh how quickly MS forgets...

They didn't forget anything. They are quite aware of "metro h8".


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Maven

said by Maven:

Is there anything particularly wrong with Windows 7? It's been rock solid for me.

Sure, a roll-up of updates would be nice, but I don't think this is some mass conspiracy to push Win8. A lot of corporate users are just now moving towards Win7, Microsoft has every reason to fix whatever's wrong with Win7.

said by lorennerol See Profile
It's Windows Me/Vista all over again. Oh how quickly MS forgets...

:

Well XP SP3 came out after Vista, so I'm not sure what you're on about here. Also, there was nothing inherently wrong with Me or Vista aside from shoddy drivers.

Agreed.

I have been running Win8 for over a month now for work and I am seriously considering going back to Windows 7.

I am still running Win7 at home but could easily switch to 8 if I wanted. But, that is looking less likely every day.

I even use Start8 to bring back the start menu so 8 for me is essentially 7 for my needs.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.


RazzyW8

@rr.com

said by workablob:

said by Maven:

Is there anything particularly wrong with Windows 7? It's been rock solid for me.

Sure, a roll-up of updates would be nice, but I don't think this is some mass conspiracy to push Win8. A lot of corporate users are just now moving towards Win7, Microsoft has every reason to fix whatever's wrong with Win7.

said by lorennerol See Profile
It's Windows Me/Vista all over again. Oh how quickly MS forgets...

:

Well XP SP3 came out after Vista, so I'm not sure what you're on about here. Also, there was nothing inherently wrong with Me or Vista aside from shoddy drivers.

Agreed.

I have been running Win8 for over a month now for work and I am seriously considering going back to Windows 7.

I am still running Win7 at home but could easily switch to 8 if I wanted. But, that is looking less likely every day.

I even use Start8 to bring back the start menu so 8 for me is essentially 7 for my needs.

Dave

You haven't even used Windows 8 though..... You're using a modified Windows 8 that acts/works like the slower Windows 7. Get rid of Start8 junk - its useless in Windows 8.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

I guess it really comes down to the question "What is in a Service Pack?"

I see that question having at least two answers

1) New features that were not present in the given OS at time of release

How many OS service packs include new "features" ? That's not typical, I don't believe. XP SP2 did, but they were much-needed security enhancements, as I recall.

On the other hand, how one defines "feature" could be debatable. For instance, with Autodesk and their 3D-modeling software, a service pack would never impact the "UI", meaning it wouldn't be a change/update that the user sees. Those only occurred with full-blown releases.


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

Now, if they're planning on using "update rollups" similar to how they release them for Internet Explorer, then maybe they might be onto something there.

I installed Windows 7 64-bit just the other day because I had to build a new machine and there were a ton of updates, not just for Windows but there was Microsoft .NET Framework updates as well and those often numbered in the 50 to 100 MB zone. Easily 2 GBs of downloads there!

And don't get me started on the Office 2010 updates. I had to install several updates for Office before it even offered Service Pack 1 to be downloaded and then on top of that even more updates after Office 2010 SP1 was installed.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to Hall

I agree Hall See Profile. Most OS SP's don't include new features. As you said, XP did, but I think that is the only exception. My reason for that as a potential "answer" to my "What is a Service Pack" question was just that: A potential answer. Microsoft could include new features of the OS in a SP, but they have not done so (except as noted in XP).

Which is why they are good as a "one stop install of security updates" which in my mind boils down to installing one big patch instead of 100's of little ones.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC

Maybe they are planning on selling SP2. Does anyone remember when they did that before? It was called Win98 SE...


Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC
reply to plencnerb

I'm trying to recall if Win95 with USB support was a service pack or an upgrade that was purchased...



Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2

Only Win95 OEM versions supported USB. I could have sworn there was a work-around or hack that enabled it on non-OEM versions though.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to trparky

Click for full size
I rebuilt my system back on Oct 17th. I have SP1 built-into my install media for Windows. I also have SP1 for Office 2010 built-in as well.

However, I still had to install 141 updates! The picture may be hard to see everything installed, but that is all the updates I had on my system for Office 2010 after SP1 and Windows 7 after SP1.

The breakdown for me for each group is below

• CAPICOM: 1
• McAfee VirusScan Enterprise: 1 (Patch 2 for VSE 8.8)
• .NET 4 Client: 8
• Office 2010: 39
• Silverlight: 1
• Windows: 91

This is why a "update rollup" would be nice.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to trparky

For the SMB sector that doesn't buy PCs in bulk and/or doesn't use images, the issue here is the time/cost associated with patching up 'new' PCs. With the service packs, the OEMs roll them into the builds and that saves a bunch of time for the end user.


talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH
reply to trparky

I don't see a problem with them eventually releasing an update rollup without calling it SP2



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

said by talz13:

I don't see a problem with them eventually releasing an update rollup without calling it SP2

That would work to. It does not have to be called SP2. Call it "Security Roll-up for Windows 7".

Wasn't there one of those for Windows 2000?

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC
reply to talz13

I think that the discussion is moot. MS has got their poker face on. If business decides to bypass Win8 then MS will recant and extend support for Win7 (meaning service packs) just like they did with XP.



BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Hall

said by Hall:

How many OS service packs include new "features" ? That's not typical, I don't believe. XP SP2 did, but they were much-needed security enhancements, as I recall.

Right off the top of my head, Vista SP1 added SSTP VPN capability to the OS. Sure, I agree that XP SP2 was a special case (in fact some argue it could have been billed a new OS, and they may be right), but other SP's have included new functionality in the past as well.
--
Ron Paul 2012 »www.ronpaul2012.com
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. (((XM)))

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to lorennerol

said by lorennerol:

For the SMB sector that doesn't buy PCs in bulk and/or doesn't use images, the issue here is the time/cost associated with patching up 'new' PCs. With the service packs, the OEMs roll them into the builds and that saves a bunch of time for the end user.

Good point. Think about millions and millions of computer hours they could save, if they provide service pack, that consolidates all of those updates.

And here is one more thing that should be mentioned here. From my experience when I install new OS from the scratch, there is a big difference between computer, that was updated using those multiple updates one-by-one and computer, which has installed OS with already integrated service pack. That's why I always made (or looking for) installation media with integrated service packs. It was easy to do with WXP (slipstreaming, remember?). And I think it would benefit greatly everyone, if with W7 they did the same...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

jcondon

join:2000-05-27
Fishkill, NY
reply to lorennerol

MS WSUS 3.0 can help speed up windows updates. It downloads them from the Internet and then pushes them out to the PCs.

It is free and can run on a PC if need be (vs server).



Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2

There's many tools out there in addition to WSUS that do this as well. Granted, most cost money, but given the MS option that is free, it doesn't have to be as big of a deal as people may try and make it.