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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to Glen T

Re: [WIN7] No Service Pack 2

Only Win95 OEM versions supported USB. I could have sworn there was a work-around or hack that enabled it on non-OEM versions though.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to trparky

Click for full size
I rebuilt my system back on Oct 17th. I have SP1 built-into my install media for Windows. I also have SP1 for Office 2010 built-in as well.

However, I still had to install 141 updates! The picture may be hard to see everything installed, but that is all the updates I had on my system for Office 2010 after SP1 and Windows 7 after SP1.

The breakdown for me for each group is below

• CAPICOM: 1
• McAfee VirusScan Enterprise: 1 (Patch 2 for VSE 8.8)
• .NET 4 Client: 8
• Office 2010: 39
• Silverlight: 1
• Windows: 91

This is why a "update rollup" would be nice.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to trparky

For the SMB sector that doesn't buy PCs in bulk and/or doesn't use images, the issue here is the time/cost associated with patching up 'new' PCs. With the service packs, the OEMs roll them into the builds and that saves a bunch of time for the end user.


talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH
reply to trparky

I don't see a problem with them eventually releasing an update rollup without calling it SP2



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

said by talz13:

I don't see a problem with them eventually releasing an update rollup without calling it SP2

That would work to. It does not have to be called SP2. Call it "Security Roll-up for Windows 7".

Wasn't there one of those for Windows 2000?

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC
reply to talz13

I think that the discussion is moot. MS has got their poker face on. If business decides to bypass Win8 then MS will recant and extend support for Win7 (meaning service packs) just like they did with XP.



BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Hall

said by Hall:

How many OS service packs include new "features" ? That's not typical, I don't believe. XP SP2 did, but they were much-needed security enhancements, as I recall.

Right off the top of my head, Vista SP1 added SSTP VPN capability to the OS. Sure, I agree that XP SP2 was a special case (in fact some argue it could have been billed a new OS, and they may be right), but other SP's have included new functionality in the past as well.
--
Ron Paul 2012 »www.ronpaul2012.com
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. (((XM)))

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to lorennerol

said by lorennerol:

For the SMB sector that doesn't buy PCs in bulk and/or doesn't use images, the issue here is the time/cost associated with patching up 'new' PCs. With the service packs, the OEMs roll them into the builds and that saves a bunch of time for the end user.

Good point. Think about millions and millions of computer hours they could save, if they provide service pack, that consolidates all of those updates.

And here is one more thing that should be mentioned here. From my experience when I install new OS from the scratch, there is a big difference between computer, that was updated using those multiple updates one-by-one and computer, which has installed OS with already integrated service pack. That's why I always made (or looking for) installation media with integrated service packs. It was easy to do with WXP (slipstreaming, remember?). And I think it would benefit greatly everyone, if with W7 they did the same...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

jcondon

join:2000-05-27
Fishkill, NY
reply to lorennerol

MS WSUS 3.0 can help speed up windows updates. It downloads them from the Internet and then pushes them out to the PCs.

It is free and can run on a PC if need be (vs server).



Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2

There's many tools out there in addition to WSUS that do this as well. Granted, most cost money, but given the MS option that is free, it doesn't have to be as big of a deal as people may try and make it.



Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto
reply to trparky

Conspiracy or no, I agree with others that Microsoft is pushing for Win8 (whether you like or not). And I also agree Win8 is like WinVista/Me all over again. I'd say let them hang themselves and when they see Windows 8 is not being adopted, especially in the enterprise environment.
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben


andyross
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-04
Schaumburg, IL
reply to trparky

Why is anyone surprised:
NT 4 = 6
Win2K = 4
XP = 3
Vista = 2
7 = 1
8 = 0

(Not certain about NT 3)



Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to trparky

That's cause Windows 7 is good enough. Failed attempt at making me upgrade?/downgrade to Windows 8.



Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to Boricua

said by Boricua:

...and when they see Windows 8 is not being adopted, especially in the enterprise environment.

Most "enterprises" never run the latest MS operating system. Where I used to work, a large, multi-billion, international company, XP was still being imaged on brand new machines as of 2009-2010.

sludgehound

join:2007-03-12
New York, NY
reply to trparky

Staying Win 7 x64 Ultimate. Reviews of RT say can't run Win 7 apps. Win 8 Pro maybe but why have dual methods of Metro & desktop. Surface tab said to have slow cameras, chicklet kb (IBM Jr anyone). Etc. Not for me.


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by sludgehound:

Reviews of RT say can't run Win 7 apps.

Well, it's a different instruction set for a start. So even if it could run 'traditional Windows desktop apps' (and I assume it cannot, but don't know that), either the app vendor would have to sell an ARM version, or else there would need to be a software-emulated virtual x86 running on the ARM, which seems kind of ridiculous since x86 is the high end and ARM is the low end.

lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to sludgehound

said by sludgehound:

Reviews of RT say can't run Win 7 apps.

Correct. I suspect a lot of people will be in for a rude surprise when they discover that Windows won't run Windows programs. They should have called it something else, like Apple did with OS X and iOS.


Blogger
Jedi Poster
Premium
join:2012-10-18
Reviews:
·Champion Broadba..

1 recommendation

reply to trparky

It seems to this simple old man and intermediate home computer user that if you run Windows 7 64 bit that the only sane way to consider running Windows 8 unless you are cash strapped is to have two computers. One that is your day to day working computer in every way and a second computer to "play" and experiment with. It would be on that second computer you would install Windows 8 and play with it to see it is a keeper or not.

I have a PC and a Mac. I think Windows 7 is simply by far the best OS MS has ever produced as opposed to some others not so great like 95, 98, Me, and for different reasons Vista. I've used every MS Windows OS ever made.

Listening to all the feedback for those that have used or played with any version of Windows 8 available I've heard a variety of opinions. However, the evidence seems clear and convincing as of today that Windows 8 is not worth the money and effort to upgrade to and use. It doesn't even sound close to being worth it for the average user.

Just my two-cents.


ctggzg
Premium
join:2005-02-11
USA
kudos:2
reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

... using up 500 MB of your download cap each time you reinstall the OS?

Maybe that's the problem. There's very rarely a valid reason to reinstall the OS.


David
I start new work on
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:101
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
reply to trparky

personally myself, autopatcher is the only service pack I really need. Sure I can install sp1 as soon as the O/S is on but I hit it with autopatcher afterword and installpad to install some basic apps. I spend less time reloading a machine and I make a restoral image.

Much easier to maintain, and far less hassle.



Boricua
Premium
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto
reply to Hall

said by Hall:

said by Boricua:

...and when they see Windows 8 is not being adopted, especially in the enterprise environment.

Most "enterprises" never run the latest MS operating system. Where I used to work, a large, multi-billion, international company, XP was still being imaged on brand new machines as of 2009-2010.

At my job, we are almost complete in moving to Win7 x64 Enterprise. I believe we'll be done by the end of the year.
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to ctggzg

said by ctggzg:

said by plencnerb:

... using up 500 MB of your download cap each time you reinstall the OS?

Maybe that's the problem. There's very rarely a valid reason to reinstall the OS.

In my case, I re-install my OS every few months. I do it because I don't like to do a lot of updates over updates over updates for different software. Take Firefox or Thunderbird for example. There has been a new version of both of those about once a month.

Adobe Flash and Reader is another example.

I'm also someone who will install things to test something out, fix an issue, or try out a new piece of software. Along the way, I may "hose" my system. I don't like a lot of "extra" applications installed. However, I may have to install "extra" things depending on what I'm working on.

I'm also don't believe that an uninstall fully removes everything that it installed. There is always some registry key, or file/folder left behind.

So, to clean things up, I re-install the OS from scratch.

Sure, I could use something like Ghost or other image program, but I just choose not to. Maybe I'm a bit OCD when it comes to my computer. I like to know what is installed, in the right order, and that everything is as it should be.

That is why I re-install my OS as much as I do.

On a side note, look at it from the corporate world. The last company I worked for, it was actually faster for them to re-image a system rather then track down and remove a virus or malware infection. So, the image that was being used always had to be up to date with all of the security patches. With each month, more updates from Microsoft would come out, and need to be installed at the time of the OS deployment. Sure for those already up and running, adding 6 or 7 more updates is not that big of a deal. But, if you look at the time it took for the image to be installed when SP1 first came out, and compare it to now, it will be a lot longer as you have to install all those updates before giving the system to the end user.

Actually, total virus or malware removal is best done, IMHO, as a full format and re-install of the OS, and all applications. It just helps to guarantee that the infection is really gone. If you have a good backup of your data, and the ability to install all your applications, why take the time to try to "fix" it, when a re-install will fix the problem just the same? Sure it may be more work, but in the end, you will end up with a nice clean system!

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


izy
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
endless loop
kudos:2

Looks like you need a lesson in virtualization. There is no need to "reinstall" your main system if something get's hosed up.

VMware workstation is what I use. I have XP, Win7 and Win8 desktops which I use for testing. Something buggers up a simple rollback is all that's required to take the system back to the fresh install state.
--
"Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them." Einstein



izy
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
endless loop
kudos:2
reply to sludgehound

said by sludgehound:

Staying Win 7 x64 Ultimate. Reviews of RT say can't run Win 7 apps. Win 8 Pro maybe but why have dual methods of Metro & desktop. Surface tab said to have slow cameras, chicklet kb (IBM Jr anyone). Etc. Not for me.

Your getting the Windows 8 confused with RT. RT is the OS which runs on the Surface tablet and yes, you cannot run legacy desktop apps on it. Windows RT also cannot be installed on a desktop and only runs on ARM based devices... i.e. tablets. If you want a Surface tablet and the ability to run legacy desktop apps wait for the Surface Pro which will run the full Windows 8 OS and will be out sometime in January.
--
"Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them." Einstein