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daveinpoway
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Key parts of Ubuntu Linux 13.04 to be developed under wraps

"Invitations will be extended to developers 'who trust us and in whom we have reason to trust,' says Canonical founder Mark Shuttleworth":

»www.infoworld.com/d/open-source-···s-205285


El Quintron
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said by daveinpoway:

"Invitations will be extended to developers 'who trust us and in whom we have reason to trust,' says Canonical founder Mark Shuttleworth":

»www.infoworld.com/d/open-source-···s-205285

Hmmm Ubuntu has been getting a lot of heat lately, but I'm a little surprised that he would go this far.

I'm wondering if Ubuntu is intending to become a standalone distribution based on Linux rather than a Linux distribution.
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Maxo
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reply to daveinpoway
This is just more muck raking. Just like in any project, ideas sit around as personal projects that get poked, prodded, and usually discarded. Other times the ideas seem to have merit and are then announced publicly as part of the direction the project is taken. Ubuntu has been doing this since day. Who knows how many ideas that didn't pan out where never announced?
What is happening here is that the playground stage of development is being opened up to a limited audience of developers to help get feedback from the community faster.
So what we are seeing here is that the development process is more open than it used to be, not less open. You could reasonably argue that the development cycle was not open enough, and it still needs to be more open, but it is illogical to argue that this move makes it less open. It does make great headlines though.
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TuxRaiderPen

join:2009-09-19
reply to daveinpoway
said by daveinpoway:
"Invitations will be extended to developers 'who trust us and in whom we have reason to trust,' says Canonical founder Mark Shuttleworth":
Translation... if your not onboard with THE UBUNTU WAY you will NOT BE invited.. so if you were critical of the crapunity etc.. you need not apply and/or won't be invited... the harder you squeeze.....

Doesn't surprise me much...Explains alot about their no longer funding Kubuntu too....

Lots of pluses in what they have done to make Linux as whole more useable from desktop to server, but some things, like this is just absurd. Thankfully I've never used their main branch as it was always based on a X DE I despise. Will be interested to see what effects their nonsense has on other branches out side the main ie: [K|X]ubuntu etc..
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Maxo
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2 edits
said by TuxRaiderPen:

Translation... if your not onboard with THE UBUNTU WAY you will NOT BE invited.. so if you were critical of the crapunity etc.. you need not apply and/or won't be invited... the harder you squeeze.....

You have to really be wanting to not like Ubuntu to see it this way.
Nothing has been closed. What used to be closed is now open to a limited audience. This is by definition more open, not less.
You may have the opinion that the beginning stages of development of experimental ideas (most of which never go anywhere) should also be done in the wide open. That is in fact my opinion.
But you cannot argue that giving a limited audience outside of Canonical a peak into this process is less open.
The reason people do this part of development in secret is because of news articles like this one that will twist anything and everything they can into garbage so they can sell hyperbole to people who do not take the time out to critically analyze what they read. Often when developing software we come up with some really stupid ideas. When we try to play them out we realize how stupid they are we drop them. What we wouldn't want is some news site like infoworld creating sensational headlines about each thing we thought might have been a good idea.

Edit: Spelling
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reply to Maxo
said by Maxo:

So what we are seeing here is that the development process is more open than it used to be, not less open. You could reasonably argue that the development cycle was not open enough, and it still needs to be more open, but it is illogical to argue that this move makes it less open. It does make great headlines though.

Interesting take on it.
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TuxRaiderPen

join:2009-09-19
reply to Maxo
said by Maxo:
You have to really be wanting to not like Ubuntu to see it this way.
Nothing has been closed. What used to be closed is now open to a limited audience. This is by definition more open, not less.
I don't dislike the base *buntu, I DESPISE Ubuntu and its crap interface gnome and unity... I only use KDE based and Debian derivatives on servers I have immediate control over. And if what ever issue would be resolved with CPanel that it would run on Debian based distros v. centOS I would move off site servers to it as well.

But in regards to this...

Past experience and history has taught me and others what this move is all about. Your welcome to disagree, but I am pretty sure time and history will show this is correct..

Its getting the negative press that it deserves.. The whole developer community in *buntu land is just one massive cliche worse than those I deal[t] with in HS and at work now... this is just more of the cliche closing ranks...

Squeeze harder mark!
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Maxo
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said by TuxRaiderPen:

Past experience and history has taught me and others what this move is all about. Your welcome to disagree, but I am pretty sure time and history will show this is correct..

I'm not offering an opinion. I'm sticking to the facts. How is opening up a previously closed process to a few contributors an example of Ubuntu development becoming more closed? That's a very square peg you have to round there.
You offer accusations, you cast a wide net, but you don't offering any counter argument to mine, nor do you offer any support for infoworld's illogical claim. You just say you don't like Ubuntu and you think those who support it are a cliche. Even if it is true that Ubuntu is a poorly designed Linux distribution and that its developers fit whatever negative words you have to call them, that doesn't do anything to support the idea that by opening up the early development process to a select few is in fact closing the development process.
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said by Maxo:

Even if it is true that Ubuntu is a poorly designed Linux distribution and that its developers fit whatever negative words you have to call them, that doesn't do anything to support the idea that by opening up the early development process to a select few is in fact closing the development process.

Ubuntu isn't a poorly designed Linux at all, it just isn't very responsive to feedback (eg: Mark's statement to users who wanted the buttons back on the right »www.webupd8.org/2010/03/ubuntu-i···tic.html )

Back to the topic:

The linked article implied they were tightening the dev process, not loosening it, and previous behaviour by Ubuntu would support that hypothesis.
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vue666
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I like the Zorin version of Ubuntu...

»zorin-os.com/

TuxRaiderPen

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reply to Maxo
said by Maxo:
I'm not offering an opinion. I'm sticking to the facts. How is opening up a previously closed process to a few contributors an example of Ubuntu development becoming more closed? That's a very square peg you have to round there.
You offer accusations, you cast a wide net, but you don't offering any counter argument to mine, nor do you offer any support for infoworld's illogical claim.
Linux Format last year, if I can find the issue post it, did a real good, in my term, expose, of how cliche and snobbish ubuntu development it is.

That doesn't mesh well with the whole open idea... Like it or not Janey User may have a solution to a problem, but it will never get there because Janey is not part of the coder cliche/Coderati...

All you need to do is look at Launchpad at any bug where the maintainer doesn't like it and theres your proof. Dismissal of the idea and/or solutions.

Its not only Canoncial (ubuntu), KDE has the same issue.

If some had their way I am sure there would be NO PUBLIC bug reporting, so they don't have to deal with it. Yes some users can not report a bug or problem to save their live, nor can they make suggestions... welcome to open coding. I made lots of stupid changes to apease Janey User that I thought and still think are exactly that stupid, it doesn't matter, Janey User is the one using it mostly. Some times they have a better perspective on it and the improvement is welcome or you don't use something and they find it or use it in a way unexpected and it solves a problem...

Past experience in non computer areas shows me exactly what this move is, as it will any history scholar. It looks good.. its a scam. They are just bringing in the next group of Coderati... not very open.

OPEN != invitation only.

Invitation only is asking for the secret password and handshake at the door.. BZZT!

said by Maxo:
You just say you don't like Ubuntu and you think those who support it are a cliche. Even if it is true that Ubuntu is a poorly designed Linux distribution
Read carefully I said I don't like Ubuntu in re the gnome/unity garbage distro verision. Canoncial (Ubuntu) I have issues with on several fronts this is just one of them. Blowing off RasPi, although at this point I don't care any more as better boards are/or have come along.

Ubuntu distro is a crap has been since it started specifically because it used/uses gnome and/or unity, SPIT SPIT SPIT.

Base *buntu till they fubar it with gnome/unity is a great refinement of Debian and their fubard DFSG which hampers many programs..

Ubuntu gnome/unity version is is a poor excuse for a distro, simply for its X DE. Period.

said by Maxo:
and that its developers fit whatever negative words you have to call them, that doesn't do anything to support the idea that by opening up the early development process to a select few is in fact closing the development process.
Its not really opening it up... it gives the illusion of opening.. sort of like peeking behind the curtain till some one closes it again.

Some times you need some one or more than one who has never seen that code or worked on it or any project to review and see flaws you can't see by being part of the development. (Forest for the trees.)

Your either open or closed. All comers or your select few. This is just smoke and mirrors to make you think its more open.. Its by invitation only... BZZTT! Not more open.
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El Quintron
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reply to vue666
said by vue666:

I like the Zorin version of Ubuntu...

»zorin-os.com/

You may also like Mepis

»www.mepis.org/

It's very friendly but KDE/Debian based.
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vue666
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I've used Mepis at one time. I used to have an user account on their forum... SimplyMepis believe was the forum...


Maxo
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reply to daveinpoway
More information on how Canonical is now bringing some outside developers into a previously closed part of the development process, including why they are opening this up and how one can become involved, can be found at my friend Michael Hall's blog at »mhall119.com/2012/11/welcome-to-···k-works/