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15444104
Premium
join:2012-06-11
reply to whoaru99

Re: Lifeline Internet Service

said by whoaru99:

Interesting, albeit not totally unexpected and completely false, attempt to demonize me as part of the industry because I don't agree with your sense of entitlement.


So did I have a sense of entitlement when I had the Charter Internet Lite service (3/1) at $19.99/mo that was offered without gov't regulation for years?


I wasn't getting "something for nothing" ,the company would not have offered that tier unless they were making a profit on it. The speeds were very modest and so was the price, a nice fit for those that do not want or need fancy, expensive service.

Keep angling that PR. Maybe a few will swallow it.

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17
I remember when gas was under $1 a gallon and old timers tell me you used to be able to buy a glass of beer for a nickel...

15444104
Premium
join:2012-06-11
I had that service for the past couple of years. Very recent. The rate of inflation for internet service is probably less than most other services and goods.

Not to mention that a smart company would rather retain a long term reliable (pay bills on time all the time) customer than lose them completely even if the profit is small. Some extra profit is better than no profit at all.

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17
reply to EHamilton1
said by EHamilton1 :

I've already heard that many Christian social service agencies & veterans organizations met with the FCC to encourage the move to assist the truly needy with Internet access. As a representative for the U.S. Social Security Administration, I talk with many senior citizens & disabled Americans about how our current economic crisis can be eased in some way. Many have expressed frustration over missed opportunities because of the cost of Internet access. Several public & religious social service agencies are aware of the FCC's new LIFELINE INTERNET program and are awaiting further word on when it will be implemented so they can provide some assistance to the needy in their areas.

Unfortunately, I have read some public comments on the Internet from the "more fortunate" who do not want the FCC's Lifeline Internet to help low-income Americans with this program. It's a sad commentary on how the present well-to-do (or the ignorant)in our society have sunk into moral decay. Moral values of past generations have little interest to these immorals. Their comments show no real knowledge or understanding of the social problems of our needy fellow Americans! I believe that the FCC's Lifeline INTERNET program will be a worthwhile venture for truly qualified low-income Americans.

The more times I read this the further off base I think it is in regard to morals. The older generations I know seemed to believe, in simplest terms, that if you couldn't afford something you just did without it until you could. They didn't expect a government bailout, so to speak.


Meathax
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reply to TheTechGuru
If you were truly so needy how could you even afford a computer to make use of the internet??


TheTechGuru

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said by Meathax:

If you were truly so needy how could you even afford a computer to make use of the internet??

Ok, lets have a math lesson.

It's a lot easier to afford a on time payment of $150 -$250 for 2+ years of computer use. Usually by use of income tax return earned income credit refund.

$198 laptop: »www.walmart.com/ip/Asus- ··· 21189172

$228 laptop: »www.walmart.com/ip/Acer- ··· 19714372

or one could even buy this desktop for $98 then go to a pawn shop and pick of a small 4:3 LCD for $20-$25 : »www.walmart.com/ip/HP-DC ··· 19394721

Compare that to Charter internet at $49/mo x 12 months = $588 a year x 2 years (typical lifetime of the $150-$250 computer) = $1,176

In reality the service is much more expensive than the equipment to access it is.

With $9.99/mo 1mbps Lifeline internet one would be looking at $119.88 a year. At that price one might just pre pay the year with their tax return after buying the cheap computer. Most low income americans with kids get $2000 or more in EIC refunds.

P.S. Connect 2 Compete has a program to get a computer for $150

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DaSneaky1D
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reply to whoaru99
The older generations also took family responsibilities much differently. To that end, they also defined families much differently. A wife could be a foundation within a home while one income could support the house, transportation, food & clothing and healthcare...plus the occasional entertainment evening.

Nowadays, that single income (all too often) accompanies a single parent. That single parent may or may not be able to provide the foundations needed to raise a child to be independent (of support from others), but there are programs available help give that child a chance...even if the single parent doesn't set a positive example.

I wholeheartedly agree that personal responsibility towards means/ends is sorely lacking these days...especially in the US, but "lines" have been drawn across many aspects of life that greatly differ these days from those of yesterday's generation. An eye on the realities of today will see that "government assistance" can't always be lumped into "bailouts" (so to speak). Sometime, they really could be an opportunity.


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reply to whoaru99
said by whoaru99:

The more times I read this the further off base I think it is in regard to morals. The older generations I know seemed to believe, in simplest terms, that if you couldn't afford something you just did without it until you could. They didn't expect a government bailout, so to speak.

But in this day in age you never will be able to afford it without it.

Examples,

Need a job to get internet but need internet to apply for jobs in 2012+.

Need a job to get a car but need a car to get to a job if you don't live in a big city with mass transit.

Family member nice enough to hand you a car to get a job? Well it still takes gas to get to work until your first paycheck in three weeks.

It all boils down to IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY and since so many irresponsible people keep reproducing at a astounding rate without being able to properly support their offspring and get them started post highschool/college the government is having to step in to help them get started.

I know two 22 yr olds. Both have two happily married parents.

Person A's parents are both uneducated living on social security after wearing their body's out doing min wage labor work all their lives.

Person B's parents own their own successful business.

Person A is still living at home unable to get a job in the small town they live in thus also unable to get a car to drive to a bigger town to find work.

Person B is currently making $3,600 a month after his parents bought him a car in cash as a HS graduation present, paid for one semester of technical college post high school, then co-signed a apartment in a big city and paid for 6 months of rent and living expenses so he could work the good job he found after his semester of technical college.

My point is, if one can not afford to be like person B's parents, they should not be reproducing. This is what is wrong with the world!
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1 recommendation

reply to DaSneaky1D
said by DaSneaky1D:

The older generations also took family responsibilities much differently. To that end, they also defined families much differently. A wife could be a foundation within a home while one income could support the house, transportation, food & clothing and healthcare...plus the occasional entertainment evening.

Nowadays, that single income (all too often) accompanies a single parent. That single parent may or may not be able to provide the foundations needed to raise a child to be independent (of support from others), but there are programs available help give that child a chance...even if the single parent doesn't set a positive example.

I wholeheartedly agree that personal responsibility towards means/ends is sorely lacking these days...especially in the US, but "lines" have been drawn across many aspects of life that greatly differ these days from those of yesterday's generation. An eye on the realities of today will see that "government assistance" can't always be lumped into "bailouts" (so to speak). Sometime, they really could be an opportunity.

Heh, you're kind of saying what I'm saying a little but in a more polite manor.

There are a few "ethically good" poor that "do everything their supposed to do" but can't get anywhere or get anything because they have no foundation to start from which should have been the parents responsibility. They eventually get bored in the rut and reproduce starting the cycle all over again.

I would like to see a govt program that catches these few before that happens, offering huge incentive grants to get started for those from poor families that have been responsible by not reproducing and stop creating programs like Welfare that reward people for being irresponsible.

Currently there are no programs that I am aware of to help someone from a poor family right out of high school to get started with their own home and own vehicle. Oh, but if they go reproduce right out of high school they can get Welfare!!! THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED!

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cork1958
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reply to whoaru99
said by whoaru99:

I remember when gas was under $1 a gallon and old timers tell me you used to be able to buy a glass of beer for a nickel...

You must be a real youngster, if that's the cheapest you remember gas?

When I got my very first car, at age 16, gas was 32 cents a gallon!

Some how I think this topic is getting way off track?!

As far as todays generation vs. my generation, the kids are so used to handouts, they don't have a clue what to do after school, which is half the reason the we are so messed up in this country.
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TheTechGuru

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1 edit
said by cork1958:

said by whoaru99:

I remember when gas was under $1 a gallon and old timers tell me you used to be able to buy a glass of beer for a nickel...

You must be a real youngster, if that's the cheapest you remember gas?

When I got my very first car, at age 16, gas was 32 cents a gallon!

Some how I think this topic is getting way off track?!

As far as todays generation vs. my generation, the kids are so used to handouts, they don't have a clue what to do after school, which is half the reason the we are so messed up in this country.

They were given "hand outs" back then too, it just was not realized because it was a lot more integrated into the family values and way of life.

Somehow in the 60's parents of 16yr olds still managed to help their kids get vehicles and somewhere to live to get started.

Also, there were more housewives back then, so if they couldn't help their kids get one, mom was around to drive them to a job or college.

I don't know why you call it a "hand out", I call it a "start". IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY.

Oh by the way, it also takes credit to get credit. Even if a 18yr old landed a nice job out of HS, they would not be able to find anything decent to live in without a co-signer.

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whoaru99

join:2003-12-17
reply to cork1958
Youngster? Well, perhaps. I guess that's relative.

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17

4 edits
reply to TheTechGuru
My parent were not what I'd consider well to do. My dad was a truck driver, my mom was a stay at home mom, myself and two younger brothers. Parents didn't have the money to buy me or my brothers cars, they didn't have the money to put us through college.

I didn't stay at home living in the basement, I went into the military. Granted, I only stayed in 4 years but it got me grounded and got me started. My middle brother worked, lots, to put himself through Vo-Tech school. My youngest brother, bless his heart, doesn't do much which we don't really understand because he is pretty tech savvy and smart. Two out of three are doing well, what accounts for the other? I can tell you it was choices and decisions he made, not that he got any better or worse start than us or has some sort of disability.

I got a good chuckle out of the "can't afford a car to get to the job across town" line because I've heard that from my youngest bro a number of times. At one time I even offered to give him one of my older cars instead of selling it, but he didn't want it. Too expensive for gas and insurance, yet, he seems to have money to afford a big screen TV, fast Internet connection, etc., etc.

When I got out I got a job and have done fairly well. Certainly not rich, but I do OK. Point being, I think in most cases there are ways to get started even if one's parents or whatever can't do it. If that can happen, great, more power to ya, but it doesn't have to happen to make life work.


vaxvms
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reply to whoaru99
said by whoaru99:

Guess that's the way most things work though...ketchup costs more per ounce in a small bottle too.

Total price paid for a big bottle is more than a small bottle. If you're not going to use that extra ketchup why pay for it?
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whoaru99

join:2003-12-17
Sure, I get that, but that wasn't the point of that statement.


cork1958
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reply to whoaru99
said by whoaru99:

My parent were not what I'd consider well to do. My dad was a truck driver, my mom was a stay at home mom, myself and two younger brothers. Parents didn't have the money to buy me or my brothers cars, they didn't have the money to put us through college.

I didn't stay at home living in the basement, I went into the military. Granted, I only stayed in 4 years but it got me grounded and got me started. My middle brother worked, lots, to put himself through Vo-Tech school. My youngest brother, bless his heart, doesn't do much which we don't really understand because he is pretty tech savvy and smart. Two out of three are doing well, what accounts for the other? I can tell you it was choices and decisions he made, not that he got any better or worse start than us or has some sort of disability.

I got a good chuckle out of the "can't afford a car to get to the job across town" line because I've heard that from my youngest bro a number of times. At one time I even offered to give him one of my older cars instead of selling it, but he didn't want it. Too expensive for gas and insurance, yet, he seems to have money to afford a big screen TV, fast Internet connection, etc., etc.

When I got out I got a job and have done fairly well. Certainly not rich, but I do OK. Point being, I think in most cases there are ways to get started even if one's parents or whatever can't do it. If that can happen, great, more power to ya, but it doesn't have to happen to make life work.

+1

Exact same way I grew up and got started, except I only stayed in the service for 3 years. Never had my parents buy me a car, or even a peddle bike, for that matter.

A good example of how lazy people (kids) are now a days is the fact that no one goes from building to building looking for work. Everybody hires through temp agencies now, so kids don't have a clue how to land a job, let alone the incentive to look.

Could go on and on, but this could start sounding like flame bait!!
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
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Tulsa, OK
reply to TheTechGuru
Ah the next big thing of fraud and abuse with the Lifeline program: Free or very low cost Broadband internet.

If this is as heavily abused and defrauded as the Lifeline Cell Phone program is, again everyone else's bills will be soaring to cover the freeloading.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
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reply to TheTechGuru
Gotta save the money for beer and cigarettes, man!


KrK
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reply to EHamilton1
I guess you don't comprehend the sheer depth of fraud and waste the lifeline program has become.

I'm not one of the "More fortunate." It's called I get out and work for what I want, and as it is get squeezed on every side. The massive fraud and waste in the Lifeline program already costs every working american in the terms of line items and fees on their bills--- and it keeps going up as the Free Cell phones are handed out like Halloween candy.... so pardon me for not being so excited to hear that the next new giveaway that I'll be paying for is now free or extremely low cost broadband.

The fiscal cliff is coming, and it's not going to be pretty watching the nation implode from within.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


KrK
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reply to Meathax
2/3rds of Americans below the Poverty line have Cable or Satellite TV service. The average home has 3 or more TV's and more then half have video game consoles like Xbox 360 or PS3.

It's just a question of priorities and morals.... or the lack of them.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

15444104
Premium
join:2012-06-11
said by KrK:

2/3rds of Americans below the Poverty line have Cable or Satellite TV service. The average home has 3 or more TV's and more then half have video game consoles like Xbox 360 or PS3.

It's just a question of priorities and morals.... or the lack of them.

You could say the same for businesses as well.

Part of the reason why Charter and other companies initially offered a lite service is that they realized that there is a fairly large market for modest inexpensive internet service, and although the profit per sub they would make would be low, they would still make something and also serve the community as well. The subscriber was paying his way of course, but only received the service level he was actually paying for. A great concept.

Now we have these companies trying to soak those that support themselves and pay their way in a responsible manner. Sure there are also folks that want and can afford expensive high speed services but there are many more that need something more reasonable and only expect to receive the level of service they are actually paying for.


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reply to KrK
said by KrK:

Ah the next big thing of fraud and abuse with the Lifeline program: Free or very low cost Broadband internet.

The FCC defines broadband as at least 4mbps down and 1mbps up. The proposed 1mbps is not broadband, more like basic internet access that is too slow for streaming netflix, vudu, etc but perfect for surfing job sites, doing those long survey's on employment applications, and streaming SD videos on some employer websites.
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to cork1958
"with a fixed income"

Ohh how I hate that term..... I too am on a "Fixed Income", my pay check is the same exact amount on the 1st and 15th of each month so I too am on a "Fixed Income".
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said by battleop:

"with a fixed income"

Ohh how I hate that term..... I too am on a "Fixed Income", my pay check is the same exact amount on the 1st and 15th of each month so I too am on a "Fixed Income".

Ya, actually most of the "fixed income" people are the higher paid more educated on a "salary".

The working poor that work for a "hourly wage" have a variable income because each pay check can differ due to missed days, being late, overextended lunches.

Football player's million dollar contracts are a "fixed" income amount.
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
Maybe screwing off in school didn't turn out to be such a good idea after all.


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said by battleop:

Maybe screwing off in school didn't turn out to be such a good idea after all.

Who was that in reply to? or are you talking about yourself?

You replied that post to me, certainly that was not your intention as I have a A.S. in Computer Network Administration.
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
"The working poor that work for a "hourly wage" have a variable income because each pay check can differ due to missed days, being late, overextended lunches."

I am referring to that statement. Many (not all) of these people choose to screw off in school or dropped out. There are a lot of higher paying jobs that do not require college degrees but the do require a high school education.
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NormanS
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reply to whoaru99
said by whoaru99:

Lucky? I dunno...if you look at cost per Mbps it's actually more than Charter. Guess that's the way most things work though...ketchup costs more per ounce in a small bottle too.

Which ISP sells Internet service "by the Byte"? I've had AT&T and Sonic.net; both charge a flat monthly fee. So do Charter and Comcast, and all of the rest that I know of. Until ISPs start charging "by the Byte", cost per Mbps comparisons are pointless.
--
Norman
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whoaru99

join:2003-12-17

1 edit
All my ketchup gets used so why would I pay more per serving by buying it in small bottles, so to speak?

It may not matter to you and it may not be the point if you can't afford the big bottle, but to say it's pointless is untrue.


TheTechGuru

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said by whoaru99:

In your opinion, of course.

All my ketchup gets used so why would I pay more per serving by buying it in small bottles, so to speak?

Simple math.

Say a 12 oz bottle is $1.99 and a 32 oz is $3.49

The 12 oz is 16.5 cents per oz and the 32 oz is 10.9 cents per oz.

Save money by buying in bulk.

I'm always using the calculator in my phone to save money when grocery shopping. Sometimes the smaller package of something will be on sale while the larger one is not and the smaller package winds up costing less per oz with the sale price so I buy two of the smaller instead of one of the larger.
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