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15444104
Premium
join:2012-06-11
reply to KrK

Re: Lifeline Internet Service

said by KrK:

2/3rds of Americans below the Poverty line have Cable or Satellite TV service. The average home has 3 or more TV's and more then half have video game consoles like Xbox 360 or PS3.

It's just a question of priorities and morals.... or the lack of them.

You could say the same for businesses as well.

Part of the reason why Charter and other companies initially offered a lite service is that they realized that there is a fairly large market for modest inexpensive internet service, and although the profit per sub they would make would be low, they would still make something and also serve the community as well. The subscriber was paying his way of course, but only received the service level he was actually paying for. A great concept.

Now we have these companies trying to soak those that support themselves and pay their way in a responsible manner. Sure there are also folks that want and can afford expensive high speed services but there are many more that need something more reasonable and only expect to receive the level of service they are actually paying for.


TheTechGuru

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reply to KrK
said by KrK:

Ah the next big thing of fraud and abuse with the Lifeline program: Free or very low cost Broadband internet.

The FCC defines broadband as at least 4mbps down and 1mbps up. The proposed 1mbps is not broadband, more like basic internet access that is too slow for streaming netflix, vudu, etc but perfect for surfing job sites, doing those long survey's on employment applications, and streaming SD videos on some employer websites.
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to cork1958
"with a fixed income"

Ohh how I hate that term..... I too am on a "Fixed Income", my pay check is the same exact amount on the 1st and 15th of each month so I too am on a "Fixed Income".
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


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said by battleop:

"with a fixed income"

Ohh how I hate that term..... I too am on a "Fixed Income", my pay check is the same exact amount on the 1st and 15th of each month so I too am on a "Fixed Income".

Ya, actually most of the "fixed income" people are the higher paid more educated on a "salary".

The working poor that work for a "hourly wage" have a variable income because each pay check can differ due to missed days, being late, overextended lunches.

Football player's million dollar contracts are a "fixed" income amount.
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
Maybe screwing off in school didn't turn out to be such a good idea after all.


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said by battleop:

Maybe screwing off in school didn't turn out to be such a good idea after all.

Who was that in reply to? or are you talking about yourself?

You replied that post to me, certainly that was not your intention as I have a A.S. in Computer Network Administration.
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
"The working poor that work for a "hourly wage" have a variable income because each pay check can differ due to missed days, being late, overextended lunches."

I am referring to that statement. Many (not all) of these people choose to screw off in school or dropped out. There are a lot of higher paying jobs that do not require college degrees but the do require a high school education.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


NormanS
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reply to whoaru99
said by whoaru99:

Lucky? I dunno...if you look at cost per Mbps it's actually more than Charter. Guess that's the way most things work though...ketchup costs more per ounce in a small bottle too.

Which ISP sells Internet service "by the Byte"? I've had AT&T and Sonic.net; both charge a flat monthly fee. So do Charter and Comcast, and all of the rest that I know of. Until ISPs start charging "by the Byte", cost per Mbps comparisons are pointless.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17

1 edit
All my ketchup gets used so why would I pay more per serving by buying it in small bottles, so to speak?

It may not matter to you and it may not be the point if you can't afford the big bottle, but to say it's pointless is untrue.


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said by whoaru99:

In your opinion, of course.

All my ketchup gets used so why would I pay more per serving by buying it in small bottles, so to speak?

Simple math.

Say a 12 oz bottle is $1.99 and a 32 oz is $3.49

The 12 oz is 16.5 cents per oz and the 32 oz is 10.9 cents per oz.

Save money by buying in bulk.

I'm always using the calculator in my phone to save money when grocery shopping. Sometimes the smaller package of something will be on sale while the larger one is not and the smaller package winds up costing less per oz with the sale price so I buy two of the smaller instead of one of the larger.
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whoaru99

join:2003-12-17

1 edit

Sometimes the smaller package of something will be on sale while the larger one is not and the smaller package winds up costing less per oz with the sale price so I buy two of the smaller instead of one of the larger.

Of course. I just yesterday did that on a couple jars of peanut butter. In the example I used DSL was even more expensive "per ounce" on their promo than is Charter on their new standard pricing.

Comes down to price vs. cost. I understand that price may be the limiting factor in some cases, but cost is a consideration.


NormanS
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reply to 15444104
said by 15444104:

Part of the reason why Charter and other companies initially offered a lite service is that they realized that there is a fairly large market for modest inexpensive internet service, and although the profit per sub they would make would be low, they would still make something and also serve the community as well. The subscriber was paying his way of course, but only received the service level he was actually paying for. A great concept.

Here is a contrasting viewpoint from the CEO of a local DSL service provider which does not tier their native service ("Fusion"):

»Re: I feel like I'm subsidizing other customers

If he is right, and speed is costless, a slower cable speed tier should cost the same as a higher speed tier.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


NormanS
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reply to battleop
said by battleop:

"The working poor that work for a "hourly wage" have a variable income because each pay check can differ due to missed days, being late, overextended lunches."

I am referring to that statement. Many (not all) of these people choose to screw off in school or dropped out. There are a lot of higher paying jobs that do not require college degrees but the do require a high school education.

In this economy, many of the "working poor" don't have fixed hours, beyond about 20-30 per week, because the employer saves a bundle in HR expenses per "part time" employee.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


NormanS
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reply to whoaru99
said by whoaru99:

All my ketchup gets used so why would I pay more per serving by buying it in small bottles, so to speak?

It may not matter to you and it may not be the point if you can't afford the big bottle, but to say it's pointless is untrue.

That is true for merchandise sold in incremental quantities. May I remind you that Internet is not sold that way? It does not matter if I use 10GB per month, or 100GB per month. It does not matter if my tier is 3Mbs or 30Mbs. My fee is a fixed amount per month, and the data used does not affect my bill. Until "Cap-and-overage" becomes the norm, anyway.

Therefore, since there is currently no model for "bulk data" for consumer Internet, comparison to products amenable to bulk sales is pointless.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


TheTechGuru

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reply to TheTechGuru
I've never understood why ISP's don't just run every connection "wide open" and just use some load balancing / bandwidth management tools.

While this would be great on cable, DSL it would not be quite as fair for everyone as someone getting 768kbps at the far end of the coverage area would be paying the same price as someone getting 6mbps near the switch.
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NormanS
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Yet the Sonic.net, LLC CEO, Dane Jasper, claims that speed is "costless", while infrastructure costs are the same to each premises passed. So my mother pays $19.98 per month for 4.8Mbs Internet and I pay $19.98 per month for 15Mbs Internet.

I suspect the ISPs set our expectations by creating tiered services; with the tiers geared for greater profit at higher speeds.

Anybody who thinks the prices of all services and products sold in this country reflect some semblance of the actual cost need to re-examine their assumptions.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


TheTechGuru

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1 edit
I think we need caps on profit margins but that's a discussion for a political thread.

Just today I saw a item that costs less than $50 to make being sold for $750 just because of a "name" on it.

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whoaru99

join:2003-12-17
Wow. That's scary. Seriously.


NormanS
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reply to TheTechGuru
said by TheTechGuru:

I think we need caps on profit margins but that's a discussion for a political thread.

Just today I saw a item that costs less than $50 to make being sold for $750 just because of a "name" on it.

Yep. I became aware in the late 90s. I saw the markups on name brands of distilled spirits; some as much as 150%! And there was no cost justification for subtitled anime VHS tapes to cost $6 more than the English voice overdubs, considering that the voice actors represented an extra cost over translators and editors used in both.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17
It's really, really simple without a bunch more regulations and mandating. If you don't like the price don't buy the product. It takes care of itself that way.


vaxvms
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reply to TheTechGuru
said by TheTechGuru:

Simple math.

Say a 12 oz bottle is $1.99 and a 32 oz is $3.49

The 12 oz is 16.5 cents per oz and the 32 oz is 10.9 cents per oz.

Save money by buying in bulk.

I'm always using the calculator in my phone to save money when grocery shopping. Sometimes the smaller package of something will be on sale while the larger one is not and the smaller package winds up costing less per oz with the sale price so I buy two of the smaller instead of one of the larger.

But I can't use up 32 oz before it goes rancid. All I am able to use is 12 oz. I throw out 20 oz of bulk priced rancid ketchup. That means I paid $3.49 for 12 oz of ketchup. If I'm not going to use all that ketchup (or bandwidth) buying the 12 oz bottle takes less money out of my wallet.
Ketchup isn't a good example. Substitute something more perishable.


DrDrew
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1 edit
reply to TheTechGuru
said by TheTechGuru:

I think we need caps on profit margins but that's a discussion for a political thread.

Just today I saw a item that costs less than $50 to make being sold for $750 just because of a "name" on it.

Does that "make" cost take into account R&D, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, retail costs, demand, etc. or is it just straight component cost?

A "Name" can be a valuable asset that can take years for a company or product to develop. Trouble free operation, good return policy, ease of use, etc are all associated with particular brands or names that can make them more valuable.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

15444104
Premium
join:2012-06-11
reply to vaxvms

But I can't use up 32 oz before it goes rancid. All I am able to use is 12 oz. I throw out 20 oz of bulk priced rancid ketchup. That means I paid $3.49 for 12 oz of ketchup. If I'm not going to use all that ketchup (or bandwidth) buying the 12 oz bottle takes less money out of my wallet.
Ketchup isn't a good example. Substitute something more perishable.

Yep. Exactly.

Notice how the faulty "talking point" the PR people are desperate to use doesn't make logical sense, IF you are a typical consumer living in the "real economy". But see the top execs at most companies do not and have NO clue about family budgets. Their resources are limitless. MBAs & brass tack co. are completely out of touch.


NormanS
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1 edit
reply to DrDrew
said by DrDrew:

Does that "make" cost take into account R&D, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, retail costs, demand, etc. or is it just straight component cost?

Marketing drives price, not cost. If Vachel Carling can convince the people that they must have a Rubilator, despite that it will cost them $1,500, he will get very rich on the $1.50 worth of parts, and $15 of R&D which went into creating his Rubilator.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPTh_VIQ···ts_video

A "Name" can be a valuable asset that can take years for a company or product to develop. Trouble free operation, good return policy, ease of use, etc are all associated with particular brands or names that can make them more valuable.

Or you could just pay a famous person a wad of money to slap their name on your otherwise pedestrian product.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


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reply to DrDrew
said by DrDrew:

Does that "make" cost take into account R&D, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, retail costs, demand, etc. or is it just straight component cost?

I define "profit" as what is left over after ANY and ALL expenses of making a product.

A great example of too high of profit margins is in the oil/gas industry. They're stock piling millions of dollars for their greedy @sses
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whoaru99

join:2003-12-17

4 edits
reply to NormanS
So what if someone wants to pay $1500 for the product that costs only $1.50 to make? What business is that of yours?

It's not up to you how other people spend their money. You don't have to buy it if you don't want to.

15444104
Premium
join:2012-06-11
said by whoaru99:

So what if someone wants to pay $1500 for the product that costs only $1.50 to make? What business is that of yours?

It's not up to you how other people spend their money. You don't have to buy it if you don't want to.

Sounding just a LITTLE defensive here, guess other posters are hitting a nerve. It's their right on this board to post opinions whether you personally like them or not. Don't get upset, it's something you agreed to when you signed up here on BBR. LOL
If you don't like that fact you can stop subscribing to the forums.


NormanS
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reply to whoaru99
I tried composing a reply; twice in the editor, and once as a mental exercise while the downtown San José, California nightlife. I can't do it without discussing corporatism, and its basic inhumane impact on our society. Suffice it to say, when marketing drives demand, people will let the electric bill slide for the sake of a $750 pair of sneakers.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17

1 edit
reply to 15444104
Nice try at deflection/redirection, but it won't work.

I believe people are smart enough to buy what they feel is worth it and to not buy what they feel isn't, without need of a nanny.

What I am though is concerned about the opinions expressed otherwise. As I said before, that's just downright scary.

whoaru99

join:2003-12-17

2 edits
reply to NormanS
Someone buys a pair of shoes instead of paying the light bill.

I don't doubt for a minute scenarios similar to that play out many times every day, but the company's fault for personal irresponsibility? Surely you jest?

You had me there for a minute until I realized you were just playing it. LOL, good one.