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george357
Premium Member
join:2009-09-18
Marshall, NC

george357

Premium Member

The best way to purchase parts over an extended time period?

I am planning on going back to a desktop form factor after 7+ years of using a laptop. I am not able to purchase all the necessary parts at once so I will have to buy them a few each month. I want to build a high-end machine with something like an I-7 most likely, lots of RAM, large HDD and SSD, higher end video card(s), couple of optical drives (Blu-Ray) etc. I will use this build for everything including light gaming, video processing, crunching with BOINC, Home theater, etc. My primary thought is what parts to buy first and which to purchase last. My monthly budget will be around $150-200, anyone care to list which parts you would by first and store them until you had everything needed to build?

Freddy
Premium Member
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA

Freddy

Premium Member

george357,

I only have one observation, to help you save some money, if you're only going to do light gaming, you don't need a high-end video card. Something along the lines of a Radeon HD-7750 would be more than sufficient to accomplish everything you listed.

Do you want a large tower case or something along the lines of a low profile case? A small case is nice for home theater, but such can have less room for other hardware. Cases come in all sizes. Something to think about.

Freddy

mattrixx
join:2004-02-18
Orland Park, IL

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I have always purchased the CPU first, whichever way (Intel / AMD) you decide to go, as this component is generally the most reliable of all, and has a good enough replacement warranty to insure that it will work whenever you do ultimately put together your rig.

On the other hand, I will purchase the Motherboard last, as there maybe a change of mind, or a better model available come the day you are "ready" to put it all together. If you do get a lemon, you will have the warranty time to RMA it. Waiting till last also gives you more feedback and reviews as to which MB might be the best overall choice.

Just some thoughts to consider.
JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL

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For light gaming I agree you generally do not need a high end GPU but you mention TD crunching, are you running the HCC project? If so, that can take advantage of a GPU now to REALLY churn out some work units. Any GPU will be better than a CPU but there's a list I put together of optimal GPUs for the task in terms of processing power per dollar: »Re: HCC GPU app close to going live IT HAS LAUNCHED

In short, the 6870 is currently one of the best you can get for crunching if you want to buy new. If you want to buy used or the cards on my matrix are too expensive for you, then search ebay for the 6770. I've seen them for under $100 and the 6870's for around $130-150.

For video processing (video editing I assume and not just watching videos?), a GPU can help to accelerate that too. Beyond that the main difference between an i7 and an i5 is generally the inclusion of hyperthreading. Chances are you don't need the i7 but depending on the motherboard you get you could run either of them.

Sadly, right now is a bad time to buy piece components for a later build. Intel's 1155 socket is about to be replaced by the 1150. Likewise, AMD is coming out with the 8000 series graphics cards which if the details and expected pricing of the upcoming GPUs are correct they will be a better choice than most out on the market right now.

Can you stuff the money in a savings account or something until you get up enough money to buy everything at once? If not here is what I would do. Buy the memory first (get DDR 3 1600 or 1866) as it's unlikely any upcoming board will use DDR4 if it's even out soon. Buy the SSD when you see a GOOD deal. Newegg has had 256GB ones for as low as $130 if you can catch a good sale. Hard drives are still kinda dropping in price I think, maybe get that next (buy the best cost per GB you can get, usually this is a 3TB drive right now). Next get the case and PSU (hell, you could get those first if you want while you wait on deals to show up) as those won't really change any.

Basically your goal is to get the motherboard, CPU and GPU last so you can see what new technology comes out around the beginning of 2013. This way you could wind up with one of two deals. Either you will get a screaming deal on 1155 stuff as retailers try to push out old stock to make room for 1150 stuff or you will just get a normal deal on current gen 1150 stuff. Either way it should be a win for you.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

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If you can't afford to buy all of the parts right now, don't bother buying any of them. Every component you are looking at will be cheaper 3 months from now. Its one thing to see CPU prices drop $30 the day after you get your new rig running, but do you really want to see that kind of drop the day after you buy, and still have to wait several months to even use it?

Stick your $200 a month in a sock drawer, and when you have enough, buy everything at once.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell

Premium Member

said by Camelot One:

...Stick your $200 a month in a sock drawer, and when you have enough, buy everything at once.

Definitely the way to do it! This way you will have the most up to date components in the best possible price when you buy them. You also will be second guessing yourself seeing a lower price on something you've already purchased when you get around to using it. The only possible exception could be the purchase of software (especially OS) if you seen an especially good deal on what you want.

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
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join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

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said by Camelot One:

If you can't afford to buy all of the parts right now, don't bother buying any of them. Every component you are looking at will be cheaper 3 months from now. Its one thing to see CPU prices drop $30 the day after you get your new rig running, but do you really want to see that kind of drop the day after you buy, and still have to wait several months to even use it?

Stick your $200 a month in a sock drawer, and when you have enough, buy everything at once.

Do this. Don't buy things as you can afford them--just save up and buy all at once, that ensures you can get the latest stuff.

halfband
Premium Member
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL

halfband

Premium Member

One exception to the sock drawer idea above: keep you eye out for really good deals. The case an power supply are unlikely to drop in price like other components and you can save a considerable amount when catching the right sale. Some other odds and ends like the DVD drive, a card reader etc fall into the same category. The release of win8 may create some opportunities on OS front as well. Watch memory for a trend up or down, memory has been pretty cheap while the hard drives were very expensive. That cycle may be once again changing. Put off a SSD as long as possible, they are in a downtrend. Cpus and motherboards are always in a downtrend. Watch pricing closely and pick up items that are great deals, not 10% but truly great deals.

norwegian
Premium Member
join:2005-02-15
Outback

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Half way between every one else's reply....

If you can't afford parts you have 2 options, wait till you have it all at once and maybe a little more costly than required, or,

Look at all the add-on parts first, card reader, hdd, psu, case, etc. The motherboard, cpu and graphics cards last preferably unless you are happy with latest gen cpus - however choosing right now can put a rush on the costs for a motherboard to suit.

Think wisely, motherboards can some times get a firmware upgrade for next gen cpus, but a pin change means the recent stocks will drop and really quick, $100 at a time if you watch. Be wise. Just put it away and make sure you look for specials and sudden hardware changes, you just never know when something spot on your needs suddenly turns up for $500 less simply because of a socket change, graphic update etc and then you see the cpu/motherboard type deals that come up to clear stock for updated hardware.

I'd like to see the last of the i7 cpus and price when the newer socket comes out!

george357
Premium Member
join:2009-09-18
Marshall, NC

george357

Premium Member

Thanks for the replies everyone! I am going to try and comment on the different points brought up here and go from there.

First there were statements concerning video cards, JoelC707 was correct in that I want the higher end card(s) because of the crunching potential. The "power" of this build is based on three factors, crunching is my primary desire, then the conversion/encoding of video (I have a need for different encoding based on video use so I do convert/transcode/encode quite often), last of course is the light gaming. I currently do not game that often but I am prone to do so at a whim sometimes and when I do the games will be played across my Plasma TV and home theater receiver at the highest settings possible. My typical games are usually lower demand hunting games such as Cableas Big Game Hunter so the major factor is more the display than the game itself. Of course the playback of HD-Bluray type videos would also benefit from the better cards.

As far as the CPU, I am really leaning toward the high-end I-7's, while I am unlikely to "need" this currently, I typically get several years out of a computer so I figure that these CPU's would remain pertinent longer.

Freddy also commented on the case size, I am looking at the Full or Super ATX cases so that I have as much room as possible inside the case.

It appears that the overall consensus is to squirrel the monthly budget and make a one-time purchase which works except in the case of extremely good deals such as the upcoming black Friday stuff and in the case of peripherals which do not change much in price or technology. Maybe as norwegian said it would work best to combine three methods and get stuff like the case, card readers and other peripherals as I can and save to purchase the major components at once, all the while keeping an eye out for any especially good deals.

If it will help I will look at newegg and make a shopping list of what I would like to build right now if I had the cash on hand and see if that changes opinions on any of these methods.
HarryH3
Premium Member
join:2005-02-21

HarryH3

Premium Member

I didn't see anyone mention warranty. It starts on the date of purchase, not when you finally get around to trying the part. Many sellers will do a 30-day DOA swap for you, but after that you have to deal direct with the manufacturer. DOA parts are rare, but having to hassle with an RMA process when you really want to be playing with your new toy is no fun.
JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL

JoelC707

Premium Member

said by HarryH3:

I didn't see anyone mention warranty. It starts on the date of purchase, not when you finally get around to trying the part. Many sellers will do a 30-day DOA swap for you, but after that you have to deal direct with the manufacturer. DOA parts are rare, but having to hassle with an RMA process when you really want to be playing with your new toy is no fun.

I thought I saw someone mention it but now I can't find it after a quick scan. Regardless, you're right. Even if it isn't DOA, I'd keep anything you buy "for later" in secured anti-static bags to protect them.
JoelC707

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said by george357:

First there were statements concerning video cards, JoelC707 was correct in that I want the higher end card(s) because of the crunching potential.

As far as the CPU, I am really leaning toward the high-end I-7's, while I am unlikely to "need" this currently, I typically get several years out of a computer so I figure that these CPU's would remain pertinent longer.

In this case, I would definitely suggest looking at my matrix of cards in that link. If you want a decent card I would suggest the 6870 but more to the point I would suggest waiting for the 8000 series that might be out as early as January.

It appears that the overall consensus is to squirrel the monthly budget and make a one-time purchase which works except in the case of extremely good deals such as the upcoming black Friday stuff and in the case of peripherals which do not change much in price or technology. Maybe as norwegian said it would work best to combine three methods and get stuff like the case, card readers and other peripherals as I can and save to purchase the major components at once, all the while keeping an eye out for any especially good deals.

If it will help I will look at newegg and make a shopping list of what I would like to build right now if I had the cash on hand and see if that changes opinions on any of these methods.

Yes, if you want to get something in stages, get the items you know aren't likely to change format or price. Well, there's not much you can do about the price but a case and PSU aren't likely to be obsolete like most other things are. Memory is DIRT cheap right now so even if it's DOA or you have to change it out for some reason when the time comes that shouldn't be too big of a deal.

Basically make sure that you buy the motherboard/CPU and GPU last so you an either take advantage of new releases in the near future or get a screaming deal on last-gen stuff (that will still serve your needs for many years). Otherwise I suggest banking the money somewhere (you may want to do this anyway to get a higher end item above your 150-200 per month range). If you post a wishlist, also make sure to give us a maximum budget (just because you stopped at say $1300 doesn't mean you might not be willing to go to $1500 for example).

Raible
join:2008-01-23
Plainfield, IN

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You can buy some parts as you go as long as you buy the crap that won't ever change first. Keyboard, mouse, monitor, PSU, RAM, Optical Drive, Harddrive. Yeah, those things change a little bit and very well may be cheaper in the future, but if you're completely locked into the "buy as you go" way, then those are what I would get first. I would put the motherboard in the middle and the CPU and GPU as the last items.

My two cents. Saving it all up and doing it all at once is still the way to go though unless you're afraid of a wife finding your stash. Then the buy as you go route is completely understandable.

george357
Premium Member
join:2009-09-18
Marshall, NC

george357

Premium Member

Click for full size
Ok Here is what I would build right now if I had the cash on hand to do so, at close to 4 grand it is a little on the expensive side but this is what I have in mind. I am willing to change stuff around as those with more knowledge sees fit but I do want the maximum I can get "power" wise if for nothing else other than the crunching which I have running 24/7.

If it helps to cap the budget lets say $4000 or less.
JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL

JoelC707

Premium Member



You went for broke didn't you? Yeah, that's going to take a LONG time to do at 150-200 a month. Maybe put it away and buy in spurts when you can catch a GOOD sale is the best bet. Why stop with 1TB drives? Why not go up to 3TB? You went top of the line it looks like on everything else. I'd suggest a different SSD personally though there is likely nothing really wrong per-se with that choice.

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

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I'd buy the case first.

its unlikely to go out of date.

george357
Premium Member
join:2009-09-18
Marshall, NC

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said by JoelC707:



You went for broke didn't you? Yeah, that's going to take a LONG time to do at 150-200 a month. Maybe put it away and buy in spurts when you can catch a GOOD sale is the best bet. Why stop with 1TB drives? Why not go up to 3TB? You went top of the line it looks like on everything else. I'd suggest a different SSD personally though there is likely nothing really wrong per-se with that choice.

Just a bit! The 150-200 covers average and not unexpected funds or awesome deals. The 1TB drives are just for the computer for now, eventually want a NAS, I figured 2TB would carry me for now.

Which SSD do you recommend over that one?

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
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join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

Krisnatharok

Premium Member

$200/mo means you can build that in 20 months. I think your wants are a little excessive for your budget at hand.

It doesn't seem like HDD space is going to be a limiting factor, since you are doing light gaming (old hunting games) and watching movies/folding. So I would suggest you stick with a single 2TB HDD and go for dual 256 GB SSDs in RAID 0 (back it up!).

I would also spend a little bit more money in the GPU realm and go with 2x 6GB 7970s since you are running 3240x1920 or 5760x1080. Being bottlenecked by your GPU sucks, royally.

Couple questions:
• Do you need 64 GB of ram? Is your folding program capable of using it?
• All things being equal, are you just looking for more cores for folding? How do AMD processors stack up against Intel when folding? if the difference is small, consider dropping down to the four-core/eight thread LGA 1155 Core i7 CPU. It will save you $200-300.

All-in-all, it's a gorgeous build, and I'm jealous.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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What are you planning on doing?

1.) Do you just want to buy some parts, put them on the shelf, and when you have all the parts, put them together?

2.) Buy a couple good parts and put a system together with the rest being obsolete, but very cheap parts, and keep replacing old/obsolete parts until you have the system you want?

I can tell you right now if you do 1., by the time you have all the parts, the parts you bought first may be 10% - 50% cheaper, so it's not a particularly smart way to build a system.

It's not going to be cheaper if you do 2., but you'll get some usage during the time while you're still building/upgrading the system.

george357
Premium Member
join:2009-09-18
Marshall, NC

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said by Krisnatharok:

$200/mo means you can build that in 20 months. I think your wants are a little excessive for your budget at hand.

The $150-200 a month is what I am comfortable committing to the build every month and does not take into account extra funds that are likely, but not guaranteed, to become available.
said by Krisnatharok:

It doesn't seem like HDD space is going to be a limiting factor, since you are doing light gaming (old hunting games) and watching movies/folding. So I would suggest you stick with a single 2TB HDD and go for dual 256 GB SSDs in RAID 0 (back it up!).

The 2TB would be good for awhile but it does not seem to take long to fill a TB when dealing with HD movies and TV series. The primary use for the late NAS is for media storage.
said by Krisnatharok:

I would also spend a little bit more money in the GPU realm and go with 2x 6GB 7970s since you are running 3240x1920 or 5760x1080. Being bottlenecked by your GPU sucks, royally.

Since this is an ultimate build for me that is not a bad idea, not only would it reduce the likelihood of the bottleneck but would also add to the crunching effort.
said by Krisnatharok:

Couple questions:
• Do you need 64 GB of ram? Is your folding program capable of using it?
• All things being equal, are you just looking for more cores for folding? How do AMD processors stack up against Intel when folding? if the difference is small, consider dropping down to the four-core/eight thread LGA 1155 Core i7 CPU. It will save you $200-300.

All-in-all, it's a gorgeous build, and I'm jealous.

I am not sure if the folding program uses that much RAM or not, the primary reason for that much was because the board would handle it and RAM is one of the cheapest aspects so I figured why not get it.
said by aurgathor:

What are you planning on doing?

1.) Do you just want to buy some parts, put them on the shelf, and when you have all the parts, put them together?

2.) Buy a couple good parts and put a system together with the rest being obsolete, but very cheap parts, and keep replacing old/obsolete parts until you have the system you want?

I can tell you right now if you do 1., by the time you have all the parts, the parts you bought first may be 10% - 50% cheaper, so it's not a particularly smart way to build a system.

It's not going to be cheaper if you do 2., but you'll get some usage during the time while you're still building/upgrading the system.

Aurgathor, looks like I will be saving the most of the money for a one shot purchase, the only caveat to that would be parts that aren't likely to change in price or performance over an extended time period.

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
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join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

Krisnatharok

Premium Member

Thanks for the get-backs.

Are you planning on buying overclocked ram? If you are, I'd suggest sticking to four dimms (still 32GB is a massive amount and you'll likely rarely--if ever--use more than 25% of that) and getting faster clocks/timings on the ram. It will cost more, and the difference may only be 1-3% in terms of performance.

george357
Premium Member
join:2009-09-18
Marshall, NC

george357

Premium Member

said by Krisnatharok:

Thanks for the get-backs.

Are you planning on buying overclocked ram? If you are, I'd suggest sticking to four dimms (still 32GB is a massive amount and you'll likely rarely--if ever--use more than 25% of that) and getting faster clocks/timings on the ram. It will cost more, and the difference may only be 1-3% in terms of performance.

Actually I haven't give it a thought. As far as use currently I have 12GB in my laptop (not overclocked) and use about 25% of that on average with an occasional spike up to 33% +/-

Krisnatharok
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join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit

Krisnatharok

Premium Member

said by george357:

Actually I haven't give it a thought. As far as use currently I have 12GB in my laptop (not overclocked) and use about 25% of that on average with an occasional spike up to 33% +/-

That's 3-4GB.

I have 24GB installed in my i7-920/x58 LGA 1366 rig and only use 33-50% max with a ton of stuff open (multi-tasking!), which is about 8-12 GB tops. You'll be fine with 32 GB. If cost is no issue, I'd go for faster ram, like G.SKILL Trident X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 with 9-11-11-31 timings for $280 or G.SKILL Trident X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 with 10-12-12-31 timings for $280.

Again, the difference may be small (1-3%), but it will add up if you are going to be frequently executing long processes (compiling large video or distributed computing/F@H).

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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said by george357:

[Aurgathor, looks like I will be saving the most of the money for a one shot purchase, the only caveat to that would be parts that aren't likely to change in price or performance over an extended time period.

With the exception of cases, all major computer components are always subject to significant changes in price, performance, and quick obsolescence.

And with the notable exception of memory, and with a lesser exception of HDs, price changes are almost always downward, though even with memory, the long term trend is also downward, and the HD price spike was partly a consequence of a very rare event.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

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Except for the box and PSU, I'd just save up. As other mentioned, prices continue to drop, so 5 months from now, everything will be cheaper and faster. The box and power supply unit won't have much price changing. Although you could also buy cooling units and fans and lights (if that is you're thing) and upgraded cables. Quite often these electronic outlets have specials when you buy the motherboard and CPU and memory (which you can get more of). That then leaves you needing a hard drive. You then upgrade the video card, buy SSD later on for your OS (transferred from HDD) then go for the optical drives.

I built a box about 4 years ago..then never really used it. I still have it, but never use it. The box itself is from 2002, so it still has a floppy drive...
scajjr
join:2005-03-01
Kingston, NH

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Samsung 830 series and Crucial M4 series are 2 of the most reliable, trouble free SSD lines. Any brand using Sandforce SF2281 series controllers have had ongoing issues that firmware updates haven't totally solved. Samsung 830's and Crucial M4's do not use SF controllers.

Sam