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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to dirtyjeffer

Re: HMS Bounty (replica) has sunk....

said by dirtyjeffer:

come on now...i'm no sea captain, and i can tell you that sailing a ship through the middle of a hurricane was a stupid idea...period.

Oh I see, the Thrill is gone....


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

1 edit
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

come on now...i'm no sea captain, and i can tell you that sailing a ship through the middle of a hurricane was a stupid idea...period.

I don't think they were sailing through it. They were trying to skirt around it (and end up south of it). Likely the decision was made because they felt the boat wasn't safe in port. If the electrical hadn't failed the story might be quite different.

I would suspect it wasn't a single person decision to take the boat out. It's easy for people after the fact to pass judgement. If the vessel had been destroyed in the port we'd likely be reading all sorts of stories about how it would have been safer out at sea. Really a no win situation for those who make those decisions.

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

1 edit
reply to Sukunai
said by Sukunai:

Sorry Gimli, I don't do google tag, the link was a matter of convenience, the knowledge of the event comes from my rather large not on google library and concerns the event mentioned from 1944 which I happen to be an expert on.

As near as I can tell the quote is from a 1953 Hanson Baldwin. New York Times, editorial on the 1944 event and the war in general. Hanson was a journalist and his bio makes no mention of being a mariner. He was doing what all journalists do, selling papers.
Keep in mind that you don't get to be captain of a ship by spouting cocksure hindsight.
If you get a moment, read the bio of the deceased man you are trashing. Robin Walbridge, RIP
»www.tallshipbounty.org/the-ship/···idge.php


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to A Lurker
said by A Lurker:
I don't think they were sailing through it. They were trying to skirt around it (and end up south of it). Likely the decision was made because they felt the boat wasn't safe in port. If the electrical hadn't failed the story might be quite different.
they were sailing from Connecticut to Florida...essentially, right through the same path the storm took...while they may have missed the "eye" of the storm, the storm itself was 1500 kms wide, so they weren't skirting around it.

quote:
I would suspect it wasn't a single person decision to take the boat out. It's easy for people after the fact to pass judgement. If the vessel had been destroyed in the port we'd likely be reading all sorts of stories about how it would have been safer out at sea. Really a no win situation for those who make those decisions.

it's a boat...if it got destroyed in the port, so what...instead, it still got destroyed and one person is dead, the captain is still missing (likely dead as well), and they are very lucky anyone managed to get rescued...that stupid move put the whole team in jeopardy...you don't need to be a captain of a sailing vessel to have some common sense.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
said by dirtyjeffer:

you don't need to be a captain of a sailing vessel to have some common sense.

No, you don't. But it sure does come in handy if you want to make intelligent comment about the actions and decisions of a captain.

Real easy to Monday-morning quarterback from dry land on a computer in a basement, without any nautical understanding.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to dirtyjeffer
Sailing vessels of that size and design don't move very fast, nor do they handle well in heavy winds/seas.

Without knowing all the details, it's possible that she ship left port BEFORE the weather forecast for SANDY indicated that it would turn into what it ultimately became, and was far enough into its voyage that it reached in essence what was a point-of-no-return when the scale of SANDY was known - too far to make shore, too dangerous to make shore, too slow to outrun/out-maneuver the storm in the time remaining.

This time of year is typically the end of hurricane season - and historically generally ends a bit earlier for all practical purposes. Taking a sailboat south from Toronto to Florida, one would typically depart around this time of year - demast, motor over Lake Ontario to the Erie Canal and down to the Hudson River, step the mast, head down to NYC and then out into the Atlantic, or use the intercoastal waterway for smaller yachts. Many yachts can't use the intercoastal - too deep a draft much of the way and too tall a mast for some bridges. Even in a place like Vancouver, a boat I sail on can't make it under the Burrard St. bridge because the mast is too tall even @ low tide.

dragonfly5

join:2012-09-04
Just curious, why go to all the trouble of demasting? If we had to motor even for a few days, we'd always just pull down the mainsail, never take the whole mast off. The windage can't be that bad? Or are you talking about a large yacht?

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
A 70' mast won't fit under bridges over the Erie Canal, and sailing out the St. Lawrence and down the coast takes too long. It's a relatively small window of time from the 'end' of hurricane season until you transition into 'ordinary' winter storms on the Atlantic coast. Hence the Eric Canal transit late October through til they close the canal for the winter.

The Toronto/NYC trip via Erie Canal can be done in a week of daylight-only motoring, except for the Toronto-Oswego run which is partially done at night. The middle of Lake Ontario is a cold lonely place in the middle of the night in November - you need full immersion survival gear for that trip too - same as on the ocean.

Depending on winds, it can take 2 days to get to Oswego from Toronto, but motoring takes about 18 hours @ 8 knots. As a general guide, Albany (Hudson River) to Oswego, NY will require about 3 days depending on your speed. The tack on time going down the Hudson to NYC.

The speed limits for the Erie Canal:

Between Lock #E-2 and lock #E-6 - 4.3 knots (5 mph).
Between Lock #E-6 and lock #E-12 - 39.1 knots (45 mph).
Between Lock #E-12 and lock #E-16 - 26.0 knots (30 mph).
Between Lock #E-16 and lock #E-17 - 8.7 knots (10 mph).
Between Locks #E-17 and Guard Gate #4 - 4.3 knots (5 mph).
Between Guard Gate #4 and lock #E-21 - 8.7 knots (10 mph).
Between Lock #E21 and the Sylvan Beach Breakwater - 4.3 knots (5 mph).
Oneida Lake - Unrestricted.
Between Brewerton Pier and Three Rvers Junction - 8.7 knots (10 mph).
Between Three Rivers Junction and State Ditch - 26 knots (30 mph).
State Ditch - 8.7 knots (10 mph).
Between State Ditch and lock #E-26 - 26.0 knots (30 mph).
Between Lock #E-26 and lock #E-32 - 8.7 knots (10 mph).
Between lock #E-32 and lock #E-33 - 4.3 knots (5 mph).
Between lock #E33 and Three Mile Island - 8.7 knots (10 mph).
Between Three Mile Island and the Niagra River - 4.3 knots (5 mph).

These speed limits are valid except in the vicinity of the locks and unless otherwise posted. The standard caveat also applies - "you are responsible for your wake!"


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to NCRGuy
said by NCRGuy:

No, you don't. But it sure does come in handy if you want to make intelligent comment about the actions and decisions of a captain.

Real easy to Monday-morning quarterback from dry land on a computer in a basement, without any nautical understanding.

i'm not Monday morning quarterbacking, nor do you need "nautical understanding" to know that sailing through one of the largest hurricanes ever to hit the USA was a bad move...i would have told you that before they set sail, or if it was even asked about.

i heard that the woman who died even called her parents prior to leaving and said something along the lines of "If I don't make it back, please know I died doing what I love"...if that wasn't a tell tale sign of the stupid move it was, i don't know what is.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to NCRGuy
In the swells of this sad loss, many of us are left searching for answers. The towering question on everyone's mind is why the Bounty found itself at sea at all -- given the fact hurricane Sandy came with plenty of warning.

Evidently, Capt. Walbridge thought the ship could skirt the storm on its way to Florida -- a risk which fellow tall ship captain Dan Moreland of the Picton Castle said he could not fathom. Nor can anyone else.


»www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinio···251.html

as i said earlier, stupid move.

--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to vue666

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlc1slA8PA

From Bowditch: "The passage of a tropical cyclone at sea is an experience not soon to be forgotten."