Topic 'Re: 470Ft Cable Run' in forum 'Charter Internet/TV' - dslreports.com

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 08:41:29 EDT

nunya posted : Wow. A lot of silly and wasteful advice in this thread.
OP, the best this you can do is get a decent sized PVC conduit from the house to the outbuilding.

Don't forget, the cable needs to be grounded per NEC requirements at the outbuilding (a single ground rod IS NOT acceptable).
I suggested coax betwixt because you can easily send video and data passively with no conversion (E.G., locate your equipment at the house instead of an outbuilding).
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 23:56:39 EDT

TheTechGuru posted :

said by uniden9:

The media convertors are a tad on the pricey side, but it will keep lightning out of the system and your house.

That depends on which plan he plans to get. 30/4 a 100 base-fx pair would be fine which can be had for a fairly low price (starting around $30 each). BUT if he gets the 100/5 plan he will need a gigabit connection which costs a lot more ($55+ each)

NewEgg is probably the best place to get a pair.

»www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi···eSize=20
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CompTIA Network+ Certified

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 22:35:07 EDT

uniden9 posted : I would have to agree with tech guru. Burying ethernet cable, or any copper cable is not wise. You can buy preterminated fiber optic cabling relatively cheap, and a pair of media convertors. The media convertors are a tad on the pricey side, but it will keep lightning out of the system and your house.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:48:24 EDT

TheTechGuru posted :

said by whoaru99:

Maybe it's the plan, but perhaps not a bad idea to lay in a double or triple run of Cat6 in the trench while you're at it, just in case.

I suggested getting some bridge media converters and running fiber.
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CompTIA Network+ Certified

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 29 Oct 2012 19:07:26 EDT

whoaru99 posted : Maybe it's the plan, but perhaps not a bad idea to lay in a double or triple run of Cat6 in the trench while you're at it, just in case.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 29 Oct 2012 18:56:01 EDT

TheTechGuru posted :

said by mmainprize:

Litzner
Don't forget to throw some coax in there with that Cat6.

Good point, you still need Coax to the house if you want TV in the House.

AFAIK the OP does not plan on video services from Charter.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:28:34 EDT

mmainprize posted :

Litzner
Don't forget to throw some coax in there with that Cat6.

Good point, you still need Coax to the house if you want TV in the House.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:18:02 EDT

nunya posted : Don't forget to throw some coax in there with that Cat6.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:40:56 EDT

whoaru99 posted : Good for you. Sounds like that should work.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:31:48 EDT

Litzner posted : Ok, I just talked to Charter, they are going to run RG .500 from the pole, to the stables (370'), where the cable modem will be located. I need to put in a ground rod there for the installation.

Then from there I am going to put in CAT6 from the stables to the house (100'-150'), where I will put my networking equipment.

They are going to put this in and bury it for free. Apparently if you go over 400' is it not free anymore. If you keep it under 400' they can do it for free.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 28 Oct 2012 19:20:13 EDT

mmainprize posted : You need to get a full install final price. Like everyone else said, $1800 is not bad, but is that just for the surveyor ?, find out who is the main Charter guy in charge and deal with him.

You have bough the house and you need the connection, so they have you by the short hairs now. You should try and get some deal at this point. Some times they will give you credit for the $1800 and your monthly bill will be reduced until you have recovered $1800 .

Good Luck

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:27:46 EDT

whoaru99 posted : If it's not in writing you don't have it.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:16:34 EDT

sittin_tech posted : $1800 really isn't that bad when you consider the cost of your house. Think of it as a house maintenance item.

Also since you're willing to bury the cable yourself, maybe they will supply some. .625 for cost and let you bury it. That should save you some money.

Or better yet. Bury 3 inch conduit from the ped to the d-mark at your house. They can just feed the cable through the conduit. They might even eat the cost of the cable, but make sure Charter's on board before you spend any time or money on this.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 28 Oct 2012 10:12:41 EDT

bdnhsv posted : Charter probably won't agree for you to run your own cable because then they'd end up having to troubleshoot it any time you had speed or noise issues, and that would be an extra hassle for them.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 28 Oct 2012 09:53:33 EDT

nunya posted : Very true. I had it in my mind that the OP was in the St. Louis area, but it looks like he's somewhere in Mississippi.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sun, 28 Oct 2012 06:05:04 EDT

motorola870 posted :

said by nunya:

Probably not, although I'm not sure I understand your plan. Do you mean (") inches, or (') feet?

The acceptable length of cable varies by how "hot" the signal is at the tap or splitter on the pole. Higher frequencies attenuate faster than low frequencies. An example of this can be seen on analog systems where the high channels go grainy, while the lower channels are just fine.

The problem with putting an amplifier at the end of a long run is that you are amplifying crap. The amplifier needs to be inserted before the signal turns to crap.

Here's the attenuation for some nice RG11 direct burial (Commscope): »www.commscope.com/catalog/unipri···id=34377

If internet is your main goal, you'll be most concerned with 567-585 MHz area.

"Back in the day" when I was working for the cable company 150' was pretty much the limit on RG6. They didn't like RG11 going beyond 250'.

If you insist on trying it yourself, Here's what I would do:

I'd run 200' of RG11 from the pole to a pedestal:»www.telephonecentral.com/Product···203.aspx
(you could probably just use a 12 X 12 PVC box on strut)

I'd place this amplifier in the pedestal:
»www.dropamp.com/shop/product_inf···ts_id=28
The amp will be LINE POWERED from the house (this means the coax will also carry the power). You'll need the matching power supply and power inserter: »www.dropamp.com/shop/product_inf···ts_id=40

Then bury the next 200' of RG11 to the house.

Of course, you would need to discuss this plan with Charter, as they normally own, and are responsible for, the outside drop.
Before attempting any of that, I would attempt to negotiate a lower installation price with Charter and put the onus of installation on them. Maybe remind them about your initial conversation and offer to sign a 2 year deal.

By the time you are done with all the rigmarole of a DIY long distance drop, it may be cheaper to have Charter do it. With the cost of wire, fittings, amps, enclosures, and most importantly - your time; is it really worth it?

please realize that charter does not have a standardized frequency plan for internet across all systems and it varies by market as I know for a fact the fort worth system in Texas uses 777MHz-795MHz for DOCSIS.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sat, 27 Oct 2012 14:03:59 EDT

nunya posted : Probably not, although I'm not sure I understand your plan. Do you mean (") inches, or (') feet?

The acceptable length of cable varies by how "hot" the signal is at the tap or splitter on the pole. Higher frequencies attenuate faster than low frequencies. An example of this can be seen on analog systems where the high channels go grainy, while the lower channels are just fine.

The problem with putting an amplifier at the end of a long run is that you are amplifying crap. The amplifier needs to be inserted before the signal turns to crap.

Here's the attenuation for some nice RG11 direct burial (Commscope): »www.commscope.com/catalog/unipri···id=34377

If internet is your main goal, you'll be most concerned with 567-585 MHz area.

"Back in the day" when I was working for the cable company 150' was pretty much the limit on RG6. They didn't like RG11 going beyond 250'.

If you insist on trying it yourself, Here's what I would do:

I'd run 200' of RG11 from the pole to a pedestal:»www.telephonecentral.com/Product···203.aspx
(you could probably just use a 12 X 12 PVC box on strut)

I'd place this amplifier in the pedestal:
»www.dropamp.com/shop/product_inf···ts_id=28
The amp will be LINE POWERED from the house (this means the coax will also carry the power). You'll need the matching power supply and power inserter: »www.dropamp.com/shop/product_inf···ts_id=40

Then bury the next 200' of RG11 to the house.

Of course, you would need to discuss this plan with Charter, as they normally own, and are responsible for, the outside drop.
Before attempting any of that, I would attempt to negotiate a lower installation price with Charter and put the onus of installation on them. Maybe remind them about your initial conversation and offer to sign a 2 year deal.

By the time you are done with all the rigmarole of a DIY long distance drop, it may be cheaper to have Charter do it. With the cost of wire, fittings, amps, enclosures, and most importantly - your time; is it really worth it?
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:05:46 EDT

Litzner posted : So I walked off the other run, it would use about 380ft of cable. Would RG11 suffice there?

So I would be going

Pole
360" RG11
Ground Block
10" RG6
Active Return Signal Booster
6" RG6
Cable Modem
Then a couple hundred feet of CAT6 to the house, if that

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sat, 27 Oct 2012 07:09:50 EDT

cork1958 posted :

said by Oedipus:

Only $1800? I'm sorry, OP, but that is peanuts compared to some of the other quotes I have seen for situations similar to yours.

Same thing I thought, chump change, compared to others I've seen also.

For some one working in IT and probably being some what literate/savvy on the net, you should've known better than to just take someone's word over the phone that the distance wouldn't be an issue. Especially since you're dealing with Charter! :p

Good luck :)
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Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sat, 27 Oct 2012 02:04:23 EDT

Couch Potato posted : Wow. When I was installing cable if it was possible, it was done. A spool of RG11 is 1,000ft. As long as from tap to housebox was 1,000ft or less, we did it, no questions asked and no additional cost to the customer. There also had to be enough signal coming out of the tap to span that size of a drop. If there wasn't, then the hardline would have to be extended and probably an amp on that hardline, which would cost the customer. 470ft was nothing, I've ran RG6 lines that far (as long as there was a strong signal at the tap). Of course it was not Charter that I worked for.
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My posts are of my own opinion, not my employer's.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sat, 27 Oct 2012 00:13:23 EDT

Litzner posted : There is a ground transformer near the house, the CAT6 wouldn't be going near the 328ft limit.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Sat, 27 Oct 2012 00:08:18 EDT

TheTechGuru posted :

said by Litzner:

I have a out building that is not heated, but has power, that is a bit closer to the road. I could then run a CAT6 cable from there to the house, but I don't think it will be close enough still, may shave 50-100ft off the run, I would have to walk it out.

I would not run CAT over the 328ft limit, if you need to run it further I would suggest getting two media converters and using fiber.

Is there a reason is has to be burred? Are there no poles? How is your power burred that far without a voltage drop or is there a 10kv line buried and a ground transformer near the house?
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Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Fri, 26 Oct 2012 23:41:00 EDT

Litzner posted : I have a out building that is not heated, but has power, that is a bit closer to the road. I could then run a CAT6 cable from there to the house, but I don't think it will be close enough still, may shave 50-100ft off the run, I would have to walk it out.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Fri, 26 Oct 2012 23:32:30 EDT

TheTechGuru posted : If you don't want video services you could install get them to install a modem inside a weatherproof box you provide at the nearest point they will run it to. You'd be responsible for getting power to it.

You'll need a wireless bridge set like this:

Here is a Bridge kit: »www.ccrane.com/antennas/wifi-ant···kit.aspx

and you'll need two of these antennas for it:

»www.ccrane.com/antennas/wifi-ant···nna.aspx
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Fri, 26 Oct 2012 23:29:14 EDT

Oedipus posted : Only $1800? I'm sorry, OP, but that is peanuts compared to some of the other quotes I have seen for situations similar to yours.

Re: 470Ft Cable Run

Fri, 26 Oct 2012 23:20:19 EDT

nunya posted : I hate to say this, but $1,800.00 is a pretty fair price.

The RG11 will not work. You are too far. I'm not familiar with the term "flex-5", but it could be a regional thing, or a brand name. There is a flexible .500 cable available, I wonder if that's what they meant. Normally hardline .500 is standard operating procedure.

Anyway, I don't think lawyering up will do anything but waste more of your money and time.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

470Ft Cable Run

Fri, 26 Oct 2012 22:36:23 EDT

Litzner posted : So I just bought a house. Before buying this house, I called and explained to a Charter rep my situation.

I told them, before I bought the house...

The house is over 300FT away from the road, there is cable at the pole. (I walked it out last night, and the whole system will use about 470ft of cable from pole to modem)

It will have to be buried. The power is buried, and the front of the property is heavily wooded.

If this is going to cost me a lot of money to do, or if it can't be done, I WILL NOT BUY THE HOUSE. I require a reliable high speed internet connection, as I am a IT professional.

They said it won't be a problem, if there is cable at the road, they will hook it up.

So, I buy the house, the installers come out, and say the run is to far for them, they will need to get a burial crew out, and bring out a FLEX-5 cable for the installation. I ask them again, will this cost me anything, they say no...

So MISSDIG comes out, paints the telephone, then apparently a surveyor comes out, and they tell me it is going to cost $1800 to complete my installation... Needless to say I was a little irritated. They told me to take it up with my local Charter office. So toady I did, but nobody that could make a decision on this was available, so they are supposed to call me.

I am going to assume they are going to tell me "Sucks to be you", and I am going to have to have my lawyer talk to Charter in my stead.

But I was wondering if this would work to remedy my situation.

Can I run that 470ft in RG11 Flooded Quad, and install a Active Return Signal Booster and expect respectable performance from my system. I used to lay line for Dish, and I am experiences in installing cable for Satelitte TV and Internet systems, but I have never messed with Cable Modems.

There will be no other breaks in the line, Pole to RG11 (440"), to Ground Block, to RG11 (20"), to Active Return Signal Booster, to RG6 (6") to Cable modem.