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armed

join:2000-10-20
Reviews:
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1 recommendation

reply to StuartMW

Re: San Fransisco police getting drones

said by StuartMW:

said by OZO:

That's why people should always remember what was mentioned in this post.

BTW, quotes like those are useful (and remembered) by people because they summarize in a sentence a huge volume of information. To those that understand-- this particular one reminds them of what freedom is, what is required to maintain it, the history of societies that lost their freedom etc. In short they're not just pithy quotes thrown out by tinfoil hat types.

Quotes like that may serve to cheer lead the mindless but serve little purpose in thoughtful discussions of issues.

It appears to me you are suggesting that a saying from 238 years ago overpowers all when discussing the issue of LEGAL use of drones. Worse it appears that if I don't agree with your thoughts on drones then it must be because I'm too dense to understand its great deep meaning.

My equally insulting reply is that blind allegiance to trite sayings leads to intellectual blindness.

I agree in the saying... I don't believe its completely applicable to the LEGAL use of drones in LE.

I'll say it for the last time.

IT IS NOT THE TOOLS USED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT THE ABUSE BY THOSE WHO USE THEM AND THE INCORRECT APPLICATION OF THE LAWS GOVERNING THEIR USE THAT IS THE THREAT.

To believe otherwise is to believe that all tools used in LE must be banned because they have all been used illegally at one time or another and thus must come under purview of the quote.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
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said by armed:

Quotes like that may serve to cheer lead the mindless but serve little purpose in thoughtful discussions of issues.

Not sure if it was intentional or not but that was funny
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Blackbird
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Fort Wayne, IN
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reply to armed

said by armed:

...
IT IS NOT THE TOOLS USED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT THE ABUSE BY THOSE WHO USE THEM AND THE INCORRECT APPLICATION OF THE LAWS GOVERNING THEIR USE THAT IS THE THREAT.
...

And maybe that's where the crux of the matter really lies. Some folks might argue that if law enforcement is denied certain tools, then there will be less (or no) chance of incorrectly applying the laws governing their use. Put another way, the power of certain tools when abused may threaten to be so great that it arguably isn't worth the risk to society and personal freedom for them to be applied domestically in the first place. A number of issues fall into this category, ranging from national ID cards all the way to domestic LE use of drones... and a reasonable debate can certainly be framed by both sides on that kind of basis.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


Snowy
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join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
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said by Blackbird:

said by armed:

...
IT IS NOT THE TOOLS USED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT THE ABUSE BY THOSE WHO USE THEM AND THE INCORRECT APPLICATION OF THE LAWS GOVERNING THEIR USE THAT IS THE THREAT.
...

And maybe that's where the crux of the matter really lies. Some folks might argue that if law enforcement is denied certain tools, then there will be less (or no) chance of incorrectly applying the laws governing their use. Put another way, the power of certain tools when abused may threaten to be so great that it arguably isn't worth the risk to society and personal freedom for them to be applied domestically in the first place. A number of issues fall into this category, ranging from national ID cards all the way to domestic LE use of drones... and a reasonable debate can certainly be framed by both sides on that kind of basis.

Considering the amount of respect I have for both of you, it's unsettling to have to disagree with both of you.
The issue is not about abuse or even potential for abuse.
Abuse of power, which is what seems to have taken center stage, has been around since the first laws were put in place.
Those are situational items that will happen as a matter of course.

It's about the law itself which is the final arbiter of what is acceptable use vs what is unacceptable use.

"How far can the legal, lawful use of technology go" before it becomes oppressive to the average citizen?
That's the issue, IMO

armed

join:2000-10-20
Reviews:
·Charter

said by Snowy:

said by Blackbird:

said by armed:

...
IT IS NOT THE TOOLS USED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT THE ABUSE BY THOSE WHO USE THEM AND THE INCORRECT APPLICATION OF THE LAWS GOVERNING THEIR USE THAT IS THE THREAT.
...

And maybe that's where the crux of the matter really lies. Some folks might argue that if law enforcement is denied certain tools, then there will be less (or no) chance of incorrectly applying the laws governing their use. Put another way, the power of certain tools when abused may threaten to be so great that it arguably isn't worth the risk to society and personal freedom for them to be applied domestically in the first place. A number of issues fall into this category, ranging from national ID cards all the way to domestic LE use of drones... and a reasonable debate can certainly be framed by both sides on that kind of basis.

Considering the amount of respect I have for both of you, it's unsettling to have to disagree with both of you.
The issue is not about abuse or even potential for abuse.
Abuse of power, which is what seems to have taken center stage, has been around since the first laws were put in place.
Those are situational items that will happen as a matter of course.

It's about the law itself which is the final arbiter of what is acceptable use vs what is unacceptable use.

"How far can the legal, lawful use of technology go" before it becomes oppressive to the average citizen?
That's the issue, IMO

Well...you're right. That is concise and good writing and you have asked the one question that cuts to the issue.

I will leave it at that.
Expand your moderator at work