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Shootist
Premium
join:2003-02-10
Decatur, GA
kudos:3
reply to mozerd

Re: [WIN8] Biggest reinvention ever?

I am seriously thinking about a Surface Pro with Win 8 Pro (NOT the current Surface model with Win RT. Just to limited) and will find Win 8 acceptable on that platform. No need or want for Win Phone, have Android, and no need or want thatOS on my desktop/notebook computers (No touch screens on those).

It is the Biggest Mistake Ever for the desktop computer. Fine for other devices but not for the computers we now have.
--
Shooter Ready--Stand By BEEP ********

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

Maybe, but perhaps the desktop computer is dying and Microsoft is positioning itself for future viability?

I heard the desktop-is-over view being mentioned on NPR this morning, as a teaser for an upcoming program, so it appears to be a view that has entered popular culture. (Didn't [yet] hear the actual radio program, nor even know what it was).

I'm expressing no opinion on this, though I recognize that I'm a dinosaur by preferring desktop machines. mrs. (acting) dave has recently expressed a desire that her next machine be powerful and portable, replacing her current desktop + netbook combo, and she's not a particularly bleeding-edge computer user.

It took me many years to notice that minicomputers were over, too. Who needed a PC when they could have a VAX?


vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Charter
"But the changes to the UI will take a long time for consumers and businesses to adapt to"
A longer time for those who refuse to make an effort to accept change.

said by dave:

Who needed a PC when they could have a VAX?

+1
--
It's not really power unless you abuse it.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to dave
said by dave:

Maybe, but perhaps the desktop computer is dying and Microsoft is positioning itself for future viability?

May be it is ... but only in the eyes of the beholder (MS in this case). Do you think a tablet with tiles and apps, occupying whole screen, is better to do your job (programming) than current multi-windows environment, where you can change size and positions of all windows on the screen(s) to organize your work, type your input with good ol' keyboard and point precisely on a position in the screen without using your fingers? Make me laugh and tell me that you think so

And there is a lot of other uses of desktops in business (and home) environments that need that old UI. Moving desktop OS to a tablet paradigm is not revolutionary in any way. It's rather a step back, it's an oversimplification of UI, tossing away best ideas and approaches in UI, that were accumulated during the past decade (or even more). The classic windows UI does the job and does it efficiently (if it's not, usually it's because you don't know how to make so with the offered toolkit)... The new push is to move that environment back into oversimplified paradigm.

To me it looks like MS voluntarily wants to yield its dominance on desktop software market to other OS's. Fortunately we have other (and multiple) choices now...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


RazzyW8

@rr.com
said by OZO:

said by dave:

Maybe, but perhaps the desktop computer is dying and Microsoft is positioning itself for future viability?

May be it is ... but only in the eyes of the beholder (MS in this case). Do you think a tablet with tiles and apps, occupying whole screen, is better to do your job (programming) than current multi-windows environment, where you can change size and positions of all windows on the screen(s) to organize your work, type your input with good ol' keyboard and point precisely on a position in the screen without using your fingers? Make me laugh and tell me that you think so

And there is a lot of other uses of desktops in business (and home) environments that need that old UI. Moving desktop OS to a tablet paradigm is not revolutionary in any way. It's rather a step back, it's an oversimplification of UI, tossing away best ideas and approaches in UI, that were accumulated during the past decade (or even more). The classic windows UI does the job and does it efficiently (if it's not, usually it's because you don't know how to make so with the offered toolkit)... The new push is to move that environment back into oversimplified paradigm.

To me it looks like MS voluntarily wants to yield its dominance on desktop software market to other OS's. Fortunately we have other (and multiple) choices now...

Guess what dude? You can still have your multi windows on Windows 8 =) You got best of both world in Windows 8. Not sure why people keep harping and harping about "non existence multi Windows desktop" on Windows 8. It's there and it's better than Windows 7 on desktop. Seriously.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to OZO
I'm not the bulk of the market.

The market has shown a strong tendency to move from 'desktop' to 'notebook'.

The market has already decided, for example, that it definitely prefers 'tablet' to 'netbook'.

I think the better way to look at it is that the vast majority of users (the civilians, not us programmers) didn't really want a computer, they wanted a communications device. Accidentally, the communication mechanisms were part of a thing called a 'computer', so that's what they bought. But it's not what they really wanted, it's what they got sold.

I'm not yet sure where this leaves office applications. It seems to me that actual keyboards are essential, mouse not so much.

Ever noticed how naive users tend to like to open up windows full-screen? Maybe they like a one-thing-at-a-time model even if I don't.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to RazzyW8
Not to mention the New Windows UI (AKA Metro) is actually one of the few interfaces that will run on tablet devices that actually has a multitask (more then one app on the screen at a time) option. So for example, iOS doesn’t have anything like “snap”,….......yet.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to dave
It does seems many non-computer literate users tend to maximize instead of resizing windows, and as I've stated before Microsoft could have too easily allowed metro applications to run windowed, however didn't. Even Windows media center can run windowed in previous versions, but when you have large high resolution monitors running them fullscreen for something simple like a media application is just ludicrous.

They clearly are pandering to the crowd who want a devices to tweet, and facebook with. The people saying the desktop is dead never consider business, and those who need more than end consumer devices, the kind of people who think they can do everything they need to do on that expensive smartphone in their pocket which actually cost around $600 retail where the costs got buried into their rate plans, however the sucker didn't realize they buried $400 of that into the cost of their rate plan. Then they replace it every two years. The kind of people who whine saying paying $400 for a computer is too much, but are too ignorant to realize they are paying $600 every two years for a smartphone, and this is besides the overpriced, along with low capped wireless carrier data plans.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent out necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
I'm not convinced that selling what the market apparently prefers to buy counts as "pandering".

Even if I'm on the wrong side of the deal.
Expand your moderator at work

SD178780872

join:2011-05-12

1 recommendation

reply to OZO

Re: [WIN8] Biggest reinvention ever?

Very well said, it truly opens doors for alternate OS options (Linux). They are really creating an impassable abyss between power / computer pro's and the unwashed masses.. We are outnumbered and have been flushed down the proverbial toilet by Redmond / Ballmer..

SD

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 edit
reply to RazzyW8
Yeah, I don't get these clueless comments either. People opining on things of which they have no idea.

My wife use W8 with no problem and she's been exposed to it for only a day.

This may be difficult for OZO to understand, but I'm going to lay out the highly complex steps my wife takes to use Win8 for her internet browsing from when the screen is blanked.

1. Hit ESC to show the login screen and type in password
2. Click on the Dektop box (if it wasn't already in Desktop).
3. Proceed as normal.

It's a tough procedure for which there will likely be endless tech support and calls required, since only one or two are so incredibly sophisticated enough to understand the complexity of Win 8. No doubt this is a calamity in the works. But I'm sure in the end that we'll all pull through just fine.

That being said, it gets really tough when she needs to use Word. I'll continue the tutorial from where I left off.

1. Hit the Windows button to bring up the Start page.
2. Click on the Word tile.
3. Proceed as normal.

Mind boggling stuff.
--
I guess we'll have to sue Mother Nature now for voter suppression. Vote Romney/Ryan 2012 and end the stupidity.

SD178780872

join:2011-05-12
It kind of proves a point when you say your wife can do this and you're speaking on her behalf. That is exactly the point being made here by some. Everything about W8 user-interface is over-simplified.

My opinion comes from running RC on a primary partition for two months.

SD

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
said by SD178780872:

It kind of proves a point when you say your wife can do this and you're speaking on her behalf. That is exactly the point being made here by some. Everything about W8 user-interface is over-simplified.

My opinion comes from running RC on a primary partition for two months.

SD

I don't understand the problem with simplifying for the user. Power users can still get in there and do what they need. Coming up with a single simple UI over all their devices is a great idea. If that requires simplification for the user, then I see no harm.

Simplification has worked for Apple brilliantly. Morons can and do use Apple devices. It caters to the lowest IQ. Simple business logic.
--
I guess we'll have to sue Mother Nature now for voter suppression. Vote Romney/Ryan 2012 and end the stupidity.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
I find it ironic that all these people complaining about dumbed-down user interfaces are pointing to the Windows user interface as an example of a not-dumbed-down user interface.

Here is a user interface that does not insult your intelligence.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
reply to OZO
said by OZO:

The classic windows UI does the job and does it efficiently (if it's not, usually it's because you don't know how to make so with the offered toolkit)...

Sounds you are unwilling to use all the tools available with the offered toolkit of Win8. Once you autored that sentence, your arguement became invalid and just another QQ post.
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SD178780872

join:2011-05-12
reply to Badonkadonk
said by Badonkadonk:

said by SD178780872:

It kind of proves a point when you say your wife can do this and you're speaking on her behalf. That is exactly the point being made here by some. Everything about W8 user-interface is over-simplified.

My opinion comes from running RC on a primary partition for two months.

SD

I don't understand the problem with simplifying for the user. Power users can still get in there and do what they need. Coming up with a single simple UI over all their devices is a great idea. If that requires simplification for the user, then I see no harm.

Simplification has worked for Apple brilliantly. Morons can and do use Apple devices. It caters to the lowest IQ. Simple business logic.

It's a UI designed for a touch interface, why isolate a big portion of your user base. Good luck on getting corporate and IT pro's to see the logic here.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

We don't have a single touch device in the house (other than for non-Windows tabs). No one seems to have much of an issue at home with Windows 8 and keyboard and mouse control. The problem really only lies with all the IT experts around here. The normal user will get used to it with no problem--at least my user base ranging in age from 10 to 43 has and it's only been a few days.

Personally, all this angst seems manufactured to me. I perceive it more as a "Crap, I'm not the expert with Win 8. Whoa is me if I can't puff my chest out anymore as the Windows maven." All the self-called IT experts are the ones that fear change and forward movement. It's like the heavy-glassed nerds are losing control. Regular users struggle a bit, learn what they need and then move on with their lives. It happens all the time. Bitching and moaning by the "experts" while the regular users just march on.
--
I guess we'll have to sue Mother Nature now for voter suppression. Vote Romney/Ryan 2012 and end the stupidity.