dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
15

Immer
Gentleman
Premium Member
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA

Immer to Jobbie

Premium Member

to Jobbie

Re: [Raiding] Good bye World of Warcraft

said by Jobbie:

LFD and Dual Spec killed the MS>OS theory

For some, not all. That is both the beginning and the end of this 'argument'. Some still think its better to assume MS>OS and negotiate for OS rolls than to assume that blizz allowing me to roll Need means everyone should be okay with it.

Again, not saying you are wrong... but we are not wrong, either. Just 2 different ways of looking at the social aspect of the game.

bTU
join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO

bTU

Member

No matter what, not everyone is going to be OK with it. I know with what I did some will say it was revenge on the healer to take the healer weapon when he took the agility piece, and others would say two wrongs don't make a right. We're all humans and at our core we have selfish impulses that extend (especially) into WoW. My pixels are more important than your pixels damnit! And with the police (Blizz) not intervening to rectify what some feel are injustices towards them you get to see human nature at its worst. Like someone making a level one toon to harrass you on your home server, over something in a video game.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie to Immer

Premium Member

to Immer
I am not saying you are wrong, I am just giving you the points of the reasoning for MS=OS. It is your choice to kick a player for following the loot rules blizzard has established.

I am going to leave this here:
said by Blizzard CM Bashiok :

Thanks! I was getting ready to link that in that other thread, but it capped before I could.

I think it's important to note that our support policies match what's reasonably enforceable, and this really can't be a conversation about our support team making the right or wrong decisions, or helping or not helping. It's unreasonable for them to act as arbiters for every piece of loot that drops in every dungeon for every player. I hope that's something we can all agree with.

What can and should be discussed, and something we've been discussing a bit more internally, is the loot rules themselves to potentially prevent the issue in the first place. Clearly the current dungeon loot rules are fairly lax to allow for people to gear up in different ways. We (at least currently) want people to be able to gear up to tank by DPSing, or being able to help out others by healing when they really just want to DPS in their weekly raid. We want to allow them to run dungeons over and over to make up for bad luck in their drops. Just with those two things combined there will be people in your groups rolling on items you believe to be better for you.

One side issue that's made this all seem much worse is that with the launch of Mists a lot of items were tagged incorrectly, leading to people being able to roll on items they just have no business being able to roll on regardless of specs available to them. That makes the system just seem broken, when it's only a couple items that are essentially 'bugged'. We of course want to get to those bugs as quickly as possible.

There are clear benefits to allowing people to roll on off-spec items, or run dungeons over and over to try to get an item (or even just because they enjoy dungeons!). There are also clear issues it can cause when the factor of who 'deserves an item more' comes into it. Being matched with strangers you can never truly know someone else's intentions, and conclusions are easy to jump to. The converse though, where you can only roll on your current spec, is a system where you're locked into gearing up a specific way, and discourages (or maybe completely blocks) changing roles or even gearing up an off-spec - even if no one else wants an item.

There are many considerations to be made, but the discussion of LFD vs LFR loot systems is a larger one than even just this issue, and the devs seem intent on discussing it more and more as this expansion rolls on.

Until then, if you want to ensure you get the drop you want, I really recommend forming a group with trusted friends and guild mates if at all possible. Plus you can talk trash on them the whole time, which makes everything with friends more fun!

»us.battle.net/wow/en/for ··· age=3#47

Nick D
Premium Member
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

Nick D

Premium Member

I read that. My interpretation had an implied "with 5 people, you have a much higher chance that someone WON'T need an OS piece main spec, so you can get gear that way", and that's how I roll.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

Premium Member

said by Nick D:

I read that. My interpretation had an implied "with 5 people, you have a much higher chance that someone WON'T need an OS piece main spec, so you can get gear that way", and that's how I roll.

"We (at least currently) want people to be able to gear up to tank by DPSing, or being able to help out others by healing when they really just want to DPS in their weekly raid."

Nick D
Premium Member
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

Nick D

Premium Member

Rephrased: "You can actually GET OS gear in a 5 man because we don't lock you in auto-rolls based on spec like we do in LFR."

Says nothing about etiquette in MS/OS considerations.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

Premium Member

said by Nick D:

Rephrased: "You can actually GET OS gear in a 5 man because we don't lock you in auto-rolls based on spec like we do in LFR."

Says nothing about etiquette in MS/OS considerations.

Read again:

"We (at least currently) want people to be able to gear up to tank by DPSing, or being able to help out others by healing when they really just want to DPS in their weekly raid."

They want people to roll for the stuff they need for their class to fulfill any role they want, that is the purpose of LFD, this is why MS>OS doesn't work.

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix to Nick D

Premium Member

to Nick D
And if you got a barely geared tank that cheezed ilvl with pvp gear you'd kick him right?

yep, I don't know about you but I'd want a gearing tank to do a less critical role till they have zero pvp gear and have good enough gear that gear won't be a problem.

only issue then is when geared they'll ether be annoyed that the one item won't drop or not need anything from heroics.
DarkLogix

DarkLogix

Premium Member

I'd be more happy to carry a DPS'ing tank roller than to have a wipefest while they get gear.

LFR is easy enough that you can have half the group derping and still kill the boss normally, but if you picked to play as tank then you must tank there are only 2 of them and most fights are 2 tank fights.

Feralmordius
join:2011-01-18

Feralmordius

Member

said by DarkLogix:

I'd be more happy to carry a DPS'ing tank roller than to have a wipefest while they get gear.

So says the mage....

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix

Premium Member

said by Feralmordius:

said by DarkLogix:

I'd be more happy to carry a DPS'ing tank roller than to have a wipefest while they get gear.

So says the mage....

The mage that was there for the healerless 2man kill of the last boss of SSB thanks to an awesome tank.

Nick D
Premium Member
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

Nick D to Jobbie

Premium Member

to Jobbie
I gear up to DPS by tanking no problem. I roll need on DPS gear that no plate DPS need MS. I'm happy because I got gear. That ret pally is happy because I didn't take his weapon that he will use a lot more than I do. And that other warrior is happy because I don't need that tank back anymore, so he gears up his tank set in *gasp* a 5man!

Your interpretation also makes sense. But don't consider it a Blizzard endorsement.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium Member
join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

Premium Member

All good, I agree to disagree.