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SinkOrSwim

@anonymouse.org
reply to Iscream

Re: Back to worst-case-scenario to start with!

said by Iscream:

Callcentric is 100% redundant locally... but is NOT multi-site'd - it doesn't have geographical redundancy.

It's NOT clear [to me] that "there are hardly any plans.." - this is incorrect to say the least....

So you do not have anything against keeping redundant servers geogrphically remote from the main ones, and there may be plans to do that, but it isn't yet in the budget.

So why should someone, especially a business, keep DIDs with Callcentric, which has a second-rate disaster recovery setup, and doesn't have the budget to improve it, when they can get a first-rate setup with people like Anveo and Voip.ms?


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits
reply to rblizz
said by rblizz:

Unfortunately it doesn't appear that a generator was an option in this building.

But, maybe now, CallCentric can use this event as leverage with their landlords and get permission to install a generator.

 
Yes, and I would be more than willing to put my name on a petition to help them make that happen, whether or not I am still a customer at the time.

tr0910

join:2006-01-03
MI/USA
said by Davesnothere:

Yes, and I would be more than willing to put my name on a petition to help them make that happen, whether or not I am still a customer at the time.

They were just down again briefly. Line went dead, and website went dead.

I blame myself for trusting them, but it was based on recommendations from you all here. However I only trusted them with 1/2 our lines, so we were not completely shut down. Still, I think a healthy discussion is warranted, and they need to have a asterisk next to their name until they can prove they really have a disaster recovery plan, and have tested it out.

Does anybody have a fly swatter handy? We need to get rid of that that (buzz, buzz, buzz) that keeps flying around our ears....

royrogers

join:2012-10-17
reply to Davesnothere
So the NYSE is still running on generators, and has no connectivity on the floor. That was just reported on Squawk on the Street as I type this.

Where is the juice for Callcentric coming from?

My theory is this: Callcentric is located in a building full of ISP's. ConEd and NYSE and everyone else recognized that the first priority is getting power to that building, even before the NYSE.

Iscream, how far off am I?


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
said by royrogers:

So the NYSE is still running on battery backup, and has no connectivity on the floor. That was just reported on Squawk on the Street as I type this.

Where is the juice for Callcentric coming from?

 
One Word :

RATS

They have them running on wheels to operate power generators.

Letterman told me so.

NYC bylaws say nothing against doing THAT !


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to SinkOrSwim
 
You are asking :
said by SinkOrSwim :

....So why should someone, especially a business, keep DIDs with Callcentric, which has a second-rate disaster recovery setup, and doesn't have the budget to improve it, when they can get a first-rate setup with people like Anveo and Voip.ms?

 
Good Question.


fukitol
Solon for President
Premium
join:2001-06-11
PonziWorld
Good question indeed, SinkOrSwim, and one that I would love to see Iscream See Profile answer.


airwavz
Always the green wire

join:2011-09-11
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to verix
said by verix:

I'm happy they restored service. I'm not happy this occurred in the first place. Happy?

I just HAVE to respond here - I'm pretty sure the 'so-far' verified 75+ people who have died as a result of this storm aren't "happy" either.... I'm pretty sure the millions still without power aren't "happy" that this storm "occurred in the first place".... I'd bet that the thousands who have lost everything they owned aren't "happy" about that either....

If you expect 100% uptime on your VOIP service, and you didn't have a backup provider and plan already in place, then kick your OWN butt for being at LEAST as poorly prepared as CC, and quit whining about your budget phone service failing. 100% uptime IS available; just whip out that check book and start writing!

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

 
You are asking :

said by SinkOrSwim :

....So why should someone, especially a business, keep DIDs with Callcentric, which has a second-rate disaster recovery setup, and doesn't have the budget to improve it, when they can get a first-rate setup with people like Anveo and Voip.ms?

 
Good Question.

Their setup may be closer to a telco setup. Redundancy by geographic location may require a more expensive setup than say their competitors because of this?

madjeff

join:2005-04-30
united state
kudos:1

1 edit

5 recommendations

reply to rblizz
said by rblizz:

You know, I really don't give a flying fuck about what you don't give a flying fuck about. The narrow-minded, self contentedness here is beginning to piss me off. CallCentric never claimed to have geographic redundancy. Not once. Not ever.

You know, it's great that you are a die-hard CC fan. I get it. Good for you, I've been one as well. If you are happy with them, no one is forcing you to change.

However, there are those of us that use CC for more than a 1-line hobby for their home phone. Some of us also recommend it to clients that need their phones to conduct business. We have reputations to keep with clients. Luckily in my case most of my clients have backup POTS or redundant VOIP providers, because that's the way I set them up if they cannot afford to have downtime. Some don't need the redundancy, so while this outage was irritating, it was not something that was going to put them out of business.

No one (at least not me) is saying that what happened with Sandy was not a huge uncontrollable issue. Most disasters are. That's why companies have disaster recovery plans in the first place, to mitigate the impact of these sort of uncontrollable events. Is it my fault I didn't dig further on the claims of redundancy? Absolutely, and I take full responsibility of that. I (and others) have learned that Callcentric has a different definition of redundant than a lot of us. I know for me that is a lesson learned, and in the future I will be a lot more skeptical of the claim of redundancy in the future.

I'm not going to sit here and debate with the die-hard apologists any more, it's a moot point. Nothing I or anyone else says is going to change your point of view, and that's fine. The only people I really want to hear from is Callcentric. Once things calm down and they've had a chance to take a deep breath, as a paying customer and someone that has recommended their service to many others in my line of work I want some explanations if I am going to continue to be a customer. Ignoring the dead horse issue that is the redundancy, I want to hear more on the following:

- Why was there little notice that service was going down? A simple email to all customers prior to the server shutdowns explaining that power was lost and service would be disrupted? Luckily I have systems in place to monitor up/down status, otherwise my only notification would have been clients calling about not having phones.

- Why no continuing updates? A twitter post from anyone sitting in a starbucks outside the affected area would have been helpful. No updates to customers for 10-12 hours at a time really left us in the dark. No pun intended. A simple website thrown up anywhere with a simple status update page would have taken less than an hour to setup. The lack of communications was extremely disappointing.

I have a feeling the next few days are really going to make or break Callcentric. I can only speak for me, but the way they communicate to their customers over the next few days is going to decide if they are a company I trust, use and recommend in the future.

royrogers

join:2012-10-17
reply to SinkOrSwim
said by SinkOrSwim :

So why should someone, especially a business, keep DIDs with Callcentric, which has a second-rate disaster recovery setup, and doesn't have the budget to improve it, when they can get a first-rate setup with people like Anveo and Voip.ms?

Are you asking a question, or grandstanding?

Let's see, Anveo and Voip.ms (which one do you work for, BTW?).

»VOIP.ms vs Anveo

Look around. Lots of people with voip.ms with "mostly good" call quality. And they haven't even had their mettle tested with a good DDoS attack.

Anveo has been around since 2006. They're pretty young. Also quoting this: "People that I called sounded 'distant'. Also, the audio quality was not as good (The difference was like going from a good voip line to a cell phone). I also experienced a call disconnect. When I tried to call the number back, it would not go through (I finally had to call back on my cell phone)."

You want to jump ship, don't let us stop you. Just stop wizzing all over the deck on your way overboard.


fukitol
Solon for President
Premium
join:2001-06-11
PonziWorld
reply to madjeff
Hear hear, madjeff See Profile.

royrogers

join:2012-10-17
reply to airwavz
said by airwavz:

I just HAVE to respond here - I'm pretty sure the 'so-far' verified 75+ people who have died as a result of this storm aren't "happy" either.... I'm pretty sure the millions still without power aren't "happy" that this storm "occurred in the first place".... I'd bet that the thousands who have lost everything they owned aren't "happy" about that either....

If you expect 100% uptime on your VOIP service, and you didn't have a backup provider and plan already in place, then kick your OWN butt for being at LEAST as poorly prepared as CC, and quit whining about your budget phone service failing. 100% uptime IS available; just whip out that check book and start writing!

BINGO!

ThomasFox
Premium
join:2007-03-28
Monroe, MI
reply to nonymous
Ok, now that CallCentric is back up, I'm wondering about next steps for my business. I have our primary business telephone number with Callcentric (we like the call treatment feature that lets us block inbound calls with a wildcard - all 800 numbers, for example, really cuts down the telemarketing calls.

We have multiple ways to make outbound calls (PRI and a POTS line), and multiple inbound numbers, so we we were able to notify clients to reach us on an alternate number, but I'm sure we missed some calls.

I believe our company is as redundant as is possible (multiple inbound and outbound channels across three providers, spare phone system control box in the closet, etc.) but I can't figure out how to make a single number redundant across providers?

Which leaves me in a "better the devil you know than the devil you don't " scenario. We've been happily using Callcentric since 2008 or 2009, and the denial of service issue was the first real problem we had, which seemed to be resolved by just forwarding our main office number to one of the DIDs hosted on our PRI. Then of course, this issue, where the forwarding didn't work.

Is there a way to make a number redundant across two providers? If not, what's the best way to ensure our primary number always is available? Port it to a multiple-channel RCF with AT&T and then point it where ever we need to?

Thanks for any thoughts you have!

skytom

join:2012-10-18
Northampton, MA

1 recommendation

reply to madjeff
Spot on madjeff. Wished what Iscream recently posted to this board, was posted on Twitter and their non-functioning website. Callcentric must provide a comprehensive plan. We are still awaiting an email with regard to the DDoS attacks; fluid posts on their website's dashboard fails to provide the same. They promised greater transparency, but have yet to act on it.

This is not budget-constrained, but ideology-based.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
reply to ThomasFox
said by ThomasFox:

Is there a way to make a number redundant across two providers? If not, what's the best way to ensure our primary number always is available? Port it to a multiple-channel RCF with AT&T and then point it where ever we need to?

No, this is not possible unless the two providers have an agreement and the carrier supports this - but I doubt any providers will be willing to do this. The closest you could get is a single provider with multiple geo locations and a disaster recovery plan to fail over your phone number to another geo location if the first one dies.

madjeff

join:2005-04-30
united state
kudos:1
said by nitzan:

said by ThomasFox:

Is there a way to make a number redundant across two providers? If not, what's the best way to ensure our primary number always is available? Port it to a multiple-channel RCF with AT&T and then point it where ever we need to?

No, this is not possible unless the two providers have an agreement and the carrier supports this - but I doubt any providers will be willing to do this. The closest you could get is a single provider with multiple geo locations and a disaster recovery plan to fail over your phone number to another geo location if the first one dies.

Thank you for bringing that up Nitzan! It's not about having other Voip providers as backups, but the DID issue that causes problems. It's next to impossible to make DID's redundant in this case.


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
reply to royrogers
Hmm... well I was hoping that by Morning everything would be gold... but not quite. it could be much worse however.

Neither of my DID's worked by midnight last night. one did by 9:30 AM, and both did by 10:30 AM EST.... my 3CX box isn't registering with CC just yet, however the forward to another DID when not registered rule works... so calls arrive at my phone system again.

If you're not up totally yet, I suggest posting a ticket for help, but it's coming up a little at a time. I've been following this for several clients. It's MOSTLY up.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
reply to madjeff
said by madjeff:

Thank you for bringing that up Nitzan! It's not about having other Voip providers as backups, but the DID issue that causes problems. It's next to impossible to make DID's redundant in this case.

Best advice I can give here is:
1) Get two DIDs from separate providers so if one goes down clients can still reach you on the other. Just print both on your business card/website/etc.
2) Make sure your providers have adequate disaster recovery plans in place.


lowdough

@att.net
reply to Iscream
said by Iscream:

- speaking of MAJOR national and world-wide carriers, about those who were and still are down - here is not compete list:

Belgacom, Telia, KPN (including former iBasis), TATA (not just BIG - this is THE LARGEST CARRIER in the world, no one is LARGER - TATA has TWO POPs in NY State - both were down), Verizon - still down, no even sign of life, ATT, T-Mobile

====================end of quote ==========

Those are all good points, Iscream.

I'm gonna have to call just the teeniest little bit of BS in your claim that ATT and T-Mobile "were and still are down," though. I use both of those services daily and both continued to work flawlessly all week.

I think nobody expects much to work in the area that's under water. I think we all understand that things are really tough where the hurricane hit and I don't hear anybody diminishing any of that one bit.

The problem is that we didn't realize that a hit to one spot (even a REALLY BIG hit to one spot - on an island) would bring down all of your service everywhere in the world.

Sure, we may have lacked due diligence in determining that you have all your eggs (and our phone service) in one geographic basket. True enough.

But implying that your customers are to blame for our failure to see through some somewhat ambiguous, obscure, technical, jargon-filled sales puffery to determine your geographical vulnerability, while it may be true, is unlikely to engender any customer loyalty.

You were able, in this case, through no small measure of heroic efforts on the part of Callcentric employees, to get the ship righted in a few days. GREAT JOB ON THE RECOVERY.

But what if the office burned, instead of experiencing a (brief?) power outage? Or if the fire triggered the sprinklers in the "server room"? Or what if someone physically stole some (or all!) of the critical pieces of equipment? Those are just risks that, now that they're exposed, some of us are no longer willing to accept.

Sooo, great job on the heroic recovery. Please let us know in clear language when you have some meaningful geographical redundancy.

travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
reply to VexorgTR
said by VexorgTR:

It's MOSTLY up.

Unfortunately my DID 631 251 XXXX is still returning a "cannot complete" recording to callers. Ticket submitted several hours ago.

bigpapae35

join:2002-10-25
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Callcentric
said by travelguy:

said by VexorgTR:

It's MOSTLY up.

Unfortunately my DID 631 251 XXXX is still returning a "cannot complete" recording to callers. Ticket submitted several hours ago.

is that a free DID, because if it is, iscream already stated the free DID's are currently not working.

travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
said by bigpapae35:

is that a free DID, because if it is, iscream already stated the free DID's are currently not working.

Missed that. Also missed any tweet or web notice about that. All they tweeted was that service was restored and to submit a ticket if something isn't working. Did just find the iscream post - sounds like he is doing a fantastic job.

bigpapae35

join:2002-10-25
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Callcentric
said by travelguy:

said by bigpapae35:

is that a free DID, because if it is, iscream already stated the free DID's are currently not working.

Missed that. Also missed any tweet or web notice about that. All they tweeted was that service was restored and to submit a ticket if something isn't working. Did just find the iscream post - sounds like he is doing a fantastic job.

I see it listed in the bulletin when you sign in. But there is soo much content there now, its easy to miss.

this is what is shown in the bulletin:
"-Free NY DID Service Alert-

Engineers are aware of issues affecting Free NY DIDs, resulting from Hurricane Sandy flooding of portions of the NY/NJ PSTN infrastructure. "

Telco

join:2008-12-19
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to SinkOrSwim
said by SinkOrSwim :

So why should someone, especially a business, keep DIDs with Callcentric, which has a second-rate disaster recovery setup, and doesn't have the budget to improve it, when they can get a first-rate setup with people like Anveo and Voip.ms?

First rate... I don't think so. For starters, AnVeo's site and plans are confusing to the say the least.