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MrKingJames

join:2011-08-18
Brampton, ON
reply to WhyNoUpload

Re: New speeds Rogers cable - Teksavvy watch out

said by WhyNoUpload:

said by geokilla:

Lol uploading 4TB... That's a lot of porn.

lol. All I can say is it's not porn or movies.

you're one sketchy guy


WhyNoUpload

join:2013-01-15



creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to WhyNoUpload
said by WhyNoUpload:

For those that say we don't need the faster upload speeds...

[att=1]

Why you uploading 4TB bla bla bla. Who cares? I don't have to remind you all what happens when you saturate your cable upstream. It's been hell uploading these files, i need faster upload speeds so I can be done with this.

As another heavy CrashPlan user I can say bring on more upload!

Dammit it takes so long to do backups to the cloud. So painful.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to epsilon3
I can only imagine what the world would be like if engineers and designers just gave up and said to themselves no one needs the things I'm trying to design. Why should I ever bother, why try to push the boundaries of technology. You wouldn't have a broadband connection. You wouldn't be sitting at home using a computer. etc. etc.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
Decision is scheduled for next week sometime.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

stevey_frac

join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to 34764170
As an engineer, I call bullshit. Markets are analysed, focus groups are called, and product specifications are drafted before engineers and designers build things. No one is keeping you from your dream. You just want cheap premium service. If you guys REALLY need to upload 4 TB of data, get a 100 mbit synchronous fibre connection. It's available to you now. But don't claim that everyone needs it.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
said by stevey_frac:

As an engineer, I call bullshit. Markets are analysed, focus groups are called, and product specifications are drafted before engineers and designers build things. No one is keeping you from your dream. You just want cheap premium service. If you guys REALLY need to upload 4 TB of data, get a 100 mbit synchronous fibre connection. It's available to you now. But don't claim that everyone needs it.

Agreed completely.

I'd also like to mention, the cable network is still quite limited even with all the advances in DOCSIS and cable technology. Once GPON fibre goes everywhere in urban cities then the options for speed flexibility is there.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
The problem is that the monopoly situation in telecom does stifle innovation to some degree. Were we in a situation of real competition, I have no doubt speeds would be faster and prices lower.

That being said, super-high speeds for super-low prices or other such demands have no basis in fact. As stevey_frac mentions, engineers don't just design products for which there is no market. 100/100 would probably cost about $150/month at the very least, far more than the average consumer wants to pay. The up-front costs of installing fibre would be prohibitive in many places. The market for super-high upload speeds is still very small, though it will certainly grow.

If fibre were available everywhere, everyone in Ontario would have access to 250/250 for $226 a month. Even I wouldn't pay that, and I'm dying for higher upload speeds. I think we have to be realistic about what the market is really looking for, and accept that way out on the high end of the curve, prices are going to remain very high for a long time. A better focus might be on getting mainstream high-speed plans (45/4, 25/10, etc) into people's hands for more reasonable markups than the ones being enjoyed by the monopolist incumbents today. This is the role of TSI, Start, and the other TPIA providers. It's just unfortunate that they have to rely on the slow and often broken machinations of the CRTC to make it happen.

chrisl83

join:2011-06-21
Almonte, ON
July can't come fast enough for me.

»i.imgur.com/Dhrqdho.jpg

Ontario you wont be missed.. at all.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to stevey_frac
said by stevey_frac:

As an engineer, I call bullshit. Markets are analysed, focus groups are called, and product specifications are drafted before engineers and designers build things. No one is keeping you from your dream. You just want cheap premium service. If you guys REALLY need to upload 4 TB of data, get a 100 mbit synchronous fibre connection. It's available to you now. But don't claim that everyone needs it.

And yet there are things designed all the time that has no perceived market or real world use. This isn't premium service. No one has claimed that everyone needs it. Less than 1% of the customer base needs or even wants 150Mbps service yet it exists. There are a lot more people who need faster upload speeds than need the ridiculously high download speeds.

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to 34764170
said by 34764170:

I can only imagine what the world would be like if engineers and designers just gave up and said to themselves no one needs the things I'm trying to design. Why should I ever bother, why try to push the boundaries of technology. You wouldn't have a broadband connection. You wouldn't be sitting at home using a computer. etc. etc.

i mean why have cars , why have computers why have tools of any kind( looks at lion as he blows its headoff then goes to eat lion burgers while he finds bits a you in its gut....)
dummiest thing anyone could ever have said

LIKE why make h265 that could cut world wide bandwidth by a third or more WHY DO that ? h265 is here....and now those SD.X264 you see if they did with h265 well they'd be 90 megs for a tv ep and 200 for a movie
200 megabyte for a movie that is actually above ( by a factor of two or more regular non HD tvs )
ya why dont we see dvdrs ( dual layer is aobut 9gb with 30 movies ?)
ya god forbid tech actually did what the consumer wanted
instead a some gay stuffy lawyer thats got some actor or musician up his butt and a hooker and cocaine habit and yacht mortgage

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to The Mongoose
said by The Mongoose:

The problem is that the monopoly situation in telecom does stifle innovation to some degree. Were we in a situation of real competition, I have no doubt speeds would be faster and prices lower.

That being said, super-high speeds for super-low prices or other such demands have no basis in fact. As stevey_frac mentions, engineers don't just design products for which there is no market. 100/100 would probably cost about $150/month at the very least, far more than the average consumer wants to pay. The up-front costs of installing fibre would be prohibitive in many places. The market for super-high upload speeds is still very small, though it will certainly grow.

If fibre were available everywhere, everyone in Ontario would have access to 250/250 for $226 a month. Even I wouldn't pay that, and I'm dying for higher upload speeds. I think we have to be realistic about what the market is really looking for, and accept that way out on the high end of the curve, prices are going to remain very high for a long time. A better focus might be on getting mainstream high-speed plans (45/4, 25/10, etc) into people's hands for more reasonable markups than the ones being enjoyed by the monopolist incumbents today. This is the role of TSI, Start, and the other TPIA providers. It's just unfortunate that they have to rely on the slow and often broken machinations of the CRTC to make it happen.

the problem is look at ovh
you can see what a server dedicated costs and as little as what for a 100 megabit unlimited ( 32 tb/month )

stevey_frac

join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to 34764170
Except that's not at all what you were claiming earlier. Let's remind you, shall we?

said by brad :
100/100 should be the target that all ISPs are working towards as a minimum attainable speed for broadband.
There's a big difference between the statement that we need faster upload, and 100 mbit synchronous is the minimum target that all ISP's should be working towards. Internet use of consumers is asynchronous, and all the technologies of the near future involve more orders of magnitude more download than upload. Video streaming and the cloud are still primarily download based. Yes, you have to upload stuff too, but 10mbit would be enough to offer 2 HD video streams up the the cloud, and that's likely overkill.

Honestly, we all know the main use of synchronous packages is torrenting because you can keep your ratio up with your private torrent site. Everyone knows that's what you are really about here. Guess what? Video streaming will kill torrents within the decade. 20% of of North America already has Netflix. Once hulu and/or Netflix offers all of your video content on demand and in stunning HD quality, it won't be worth it to deal with the hassle of torrents, and having to download things in advance.


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to 34764170
said by 34764170:

And yet there are things designed all the time that has no perceived market or real world use. This isn't premium service. No one has claimed that everyone needs it. Less than 1% of the customer base needs or even wants 150Mbps service yet it exists. There are a lot more people who need faster upload speeds than need the ridiculously high download speeds.

This....It's not often I agree with brads black and white statement, but in this case, it's true Engineers aren't in the marketing business....They create things they are paid to create, and that money comes from companies looking to flip the service for a profit....It doesn't need to be adopted by 99% of the population for a profit, far from that in fact....If it will be beneficial for 25% of the population, it should be made available and it would be profitable to offer it. The other good point is, that 25% might not even currently realize it would be beneficial for them because they currently don't engage in any activities using upload at the moment because of the slow speeds but I'm sure as well they would if the speeds increased....
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting


Anaron

join:2005-01-28
North York, ON
reply to chrisl83
said by chrisl83:

July can't come fast enough for me.

»i.imgur.com/Dhrqdho.jpg

Ontario you wont be missed.. at all.

Shaw has a similar (or possibly even the same) business plan for $349.95/month. As much as I'd like faster upload speeds, I wouldn't resort to paying for a business line. If you're using that at work though, then enjoy it because we won't see home speeds that high for a long time.

stevey_frac

join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON
reply to d4m1r
25% of the community would be a MASSIVE seller, with a ridiculously HUGE market... The service he's talking about would sell to him, and that one guy from Anchorage.

chrisl83

join:2011-06-21
Almonte, ON

1 edit
reply to Anaron
It's Shaw home package.. $115 a month, which split between two people is what it costs at teksavvy.. so it's not bad at all.

They even have the same speed but with an unlimited package for $195 a month, but that's overkill in price and usage.. 1tb is plenty.

That was suppose to be to section, qreply didn't work YAY.

»www.shaw.ca/internet/broadband-250/

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to stevey_frac
said by stevey_frac:

25% of the community would be a MASSIVE seller, with a ridiculously HUGE market... The service he's talking about would sell to him, and that one guy from Anchorage.

That is complete nonsense.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to stevey_frac
said by stevey_frac:

Except that's not at all what you were claiming earlier. Let's remind you, shall we?

said by brad :
100/100 should be the target that all ISPs are working towards as a minimum attainable speed for broadband.
There's a big difference between the statement that we need faster upload, and 100 mbit synchronous is the minimum target that all ISP's should be working towards. Internet use of consumers is asynchronous, and all the technologies of the near future involve more orders of magnitude more download than upload. Video streaming and the cloud are still primarily download based. Yes, you have to upload stuff too, but 10mbit would be enough to offer 2 HD video streams up the the cloud, and that's likely overkill.

Honestly, we all know the main use of synchronous packages is torrenting because you can keep your ratio up with your private torrent site. Everyone knows that's what you are really about here. Guess what? Video streaming will kill torrents within the decade. 20% of of North America already has Netflix. Once hulu and/or Netflix offers all of your video content on demand and in stunning HD quality, it won't be worth it to deal with the hassle of torrents, and having to download things in advance.

This whole post is based on flawed assumptions.

sourtimes

join:2012-12-16
York, ON
reply to epsilon3
100/100 should be the minimum standard connection. It's sad to see that service referred to here as 'premium service'. You all have the internet available, take a look at European and Asian internet offerings, even offerings in large urban centres in the US as well. Canada is primitive in comparison.

It is settling for less that will get us nowhere. 100mbps/100mbps synchronous is at a minimum where we should be today, and even faster in the future. With the big move to cloud based systems this will become even more apparent as time moves on. It will happen, in many countries it's already there, we're still living in caves and hunting our data down with blunt clubs in Canada though. It's pathetic how regressed and weak our internet infrastructure is here.


davegravy

@teksavvy.com
reply to stevey_frac
said by stevey_frac:

As an engineer, I call bullshit.

As an engineer, I call bullshit on your bullshit.

said by stevey_frac:

Markets are analysed, focus groups are called, and product specifications are drafted before engineers and designers build things.

You forgot the part where business people intervene and point out that competition is unnecessary when their company has a monopoly.

said by stevey_frac:

No one is keeping you from your dream. You just want cheap premium service

Nope, just premium service that is sold with markups within the realm of reasonable.

said by stevey_frac:

Honestly, we all know the main use of synchronous packages is torrenting because you can keep your ratio up with your private torrent site. Everyone knows that's what you are really about here.

Honestly - what? I've already given an example of a possible (non-torrent) use for hi-speed upload. There are lots more, you just aren't taking off your blinders.

said by stevey_frac:

Guess what? Video streaming will kill torrents within the decade. 20% of of North America already has Netflix. Once hulu and/or Netflix offers all of your video content on demand and in stunning HD quality, it won't be worth it to deal with the hassle of torrents, and having to download things in advance.

Everyone is going to pay industry-set pricing for their media and be content being told when, where, in what format, on what devices, and how many times they can consume their media, right?
Yeah yeah yeah, that's cute, keep dreaming MIAA/RIAA shill.

Your point is moot, because torrenting is far from the only application for hi-speed upstream.


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to sourtimes
said by sourtimes:

100/100 should be the minimum standard connection. It's sad to see that service referred to here as 'premium service'. You all have the internet available, take a look at European and Asian internet offerings, even offerings in large urban centres in the US as well. Canada is primitive in comparison.

It is settling for less that will get us nowhere. 100mbps/100mbps synchronous is at a minimum where we should be today, and even faster in the future. With the big move to cloud based systems this will become even more apparent as time moves on. It will happen, in many countries it's already there, we're still living in caves and hunting our data down with blunt clubs in Canada though. It's pathetic how regressed and weak our internet infrastructure is here.

I still think 100mbps/50mbps would be more reasonable though.....Obviously we need a lot faster upload speeds, but in terms ratio to download, I think 2:1 would be sufficient for even cloud storage purposes for example. I base this view largely on usage....Think about how you use the internet...2:1 of the times you are downloading vs uploading (if not higher). Anyway, like I said, I'm sure there is a more scientific calculation to the most "efficient" upload speed that should be paired with a 100mbps download speed...
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
I thought maybe I'd share this:




This is why upload speeds are always a fraction of what the download speed is (to be clear, not why they are as low as 1Mbps, more is possible). Even 2:1 really isn't possible as long as copper coax is the physical medium the internet service is delivered on.

I don't have any statistics on how much it costs to lay fibre but I doubt it' cheap enough for the carriers to start ripping out the ground in every Ontario neighborhood.

Even Verizon in the the U.S. has slowed converting copper lines to fibre to snail's pace.

And before someone mentions Roger's profits, you have to remember a company of Roger's size has many, many departments. Cable internet is probably doesn't bring in the same margins as Digital TV or Wireless, let alone their business and enterprise operations. No company in their right mind is going subsidize the costs of one department with the profits of another. That's just unrealistic.

It'll take time to start getting fibre into a good majority of homes to offer some of the speeds offered in other parts of the world.


Anaron

join:2005-01-28
North York, ON
reply to chrisl83
said by chrisl83:

It's Shaw home package.. $115 a month, which split between two people is what it costs at teksavvy.. so it's not bad at all.

They even have the same speed but with an unlimited package for $195 a month, but that's overkill in price and usage.. 1tb is plenty.

That was suppose to be to section, qreply didn't work YAY.

»www.shaw.ca/internet/broadband-250/

250/15/1TB for $115/month is better than Rogers' 150/10/250GB for $123/month. If the cost is being split between 2 people, then it's $12 more expensive than TekSavvy's Cable 28 plan. It's still a better deal overall considering the speeds (125/7.5 vs. 28/1, assuming you'd pay for the Cable 28 plan by yourself). And it's certainly cheaper than Rogers' 45/4/150GB plan for $75/month.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to TypeS
Well, that picture isn't quite accurate either since the horizontal scale isn't linear.
Moreover, a large proportion of that spectrum marked as downstream is in fact occupied by Television channels. And there are 3 things occupying the upstream spectrum in the 5-42 MHz band ... there's upstream internet, upstream phone, and upstream cable boxes.

stevey_frac

join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to epsilon3
I love how i'm a MIAA / RIAA shill for pointing out that Netflix and Hulu are reducing piracy. Excellent.

Pointing out facts now a apparently gives you political motivations.

Anyways, moving on from that ridiculous argument, How long from the CNOC CRTC decision are we looking at until we can get upgraded to 45/4? Will Teksavvy even let us get upgraded, given the capacity concerns?


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by stevey_frac:

I love how i'm a MIAA / RIAA shill for pointing out that Netflix and Hulu are reducing piracy. Excellent.

Pointing out facts now a apparently gives you political motivations.

Anyways, moving on from that ridiculous argument, How long from the CNOC CRTC decision are we looking at until we can get upgraded to 45/4? Will Teksavvy even let us get upgraded, given the capacity concerns?



There's a thread discussing the CNOC decision here. Apparently it's scheduled for this week?

Also I believe its 35/3 is what 28/1 will get upgraded to.


ProdctionGuy

@teksavvy.com
reply to davegravy
To further Gravy's point, I work in the Film Industry and upload mostly from home back to our office. Increased uploads would GREATLY increase my workflow efficiencies. If anyone would like to investigate the file sizes generated by an ARRI ALEXA camera for 1 minute of footage at 24/fps with a colourspace 4:4:4:4 they would easily deduce that upload speed is where it is at for people to actually utilize the internet for work instead of porn and so on. Feel free to investigate the RAW files generated by the RED EPIC camera at 5K res for 1 minute of footage a 24/fps. Upload speeds need to be increased PERIOD! When I deal with production types such as myself in the U.S they are horrified by the speeds I xfer to them at. A lot of the time I have to XFER footage to an external and drive to the office to upload so I can take advantage of the outrageously priced fiber connection which has upload limits even though it costs 1300/month. Get off the torrent train, there are people here that need to upload to make themselves viable to employers, contractors and so on.

Grow UP STEVEY!

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to stevey_frac
said by stevey_frac:

Honestly, we all know the main use of synchronous packages is torrenting because you can keep your ratio up with your private torrent site. Everyone knows that's what you are really about here. Guess what? Video streaming will kill torrents within the decade. 20% of of North America already has Netflix. Once hulu and/or Netflix offers all of your video content on demand and in stunning HD quality, it won't be worth it to deal with the hassle of torrents, and having to download things in advance.

No, that is an idiotic assumption, you are wrong and you are deluded.

stevey_frac

join:2009-12-09
Cambridge, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to ProdctionGuy
So, not only is your workflow here incredibly atypical to that of the average consumer, I can just as easily argue that I need way faster downloads to do something equally work related. I need to download 500 GB VHD's full of code, and builds, but instead I end up taking home physical drives. But when I upload, I only upload tiny changesets. So your argument doesn't really hold any water. Just like that other guy who wants to upload 4 TB files to the cloud, coming up with a few examples of something that requires a lot of upload doesn't mean the average consumer wants or needs that upload. Plus people can trivially come up with special case scenarios where they need way more download. In the end, it's a wash.

But don't worry! Good News! Rogers and Bell both offer consumer fibre packages now! Both feature 100 mbit+ speeds that are syncronous. You just have to convince Rogers or Bell to run fibre to your home!