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BrianON

join:2011-09-30
Ottawa, ON
reply to TSI Martin

Re: New speeds Rogers cable - Teksavvy watch out

An upstream DOCSIS 2 or 3 channel is 30.72 Mbit/s (27 Mbit/s usable after overhead) so around 3 megabytes per second.

Not sure where these other figures are coming from.


ArthurWinslo

@rogers.com
reply to Teddy Boom
Teddy, your information is a little off. Docsis 2 is literally (not theoretically) able to pump out sustained upload speeds of almost 30mbit.

I can personally attest to this with the use of a Motorola Surfboard 5100 series modem on Comcast a few years back when I was down south. As for here in Ontario, I was maxing out at 3-4mbit on Rogers simply due to what our qam and symbol rate were at the time.

As of today, I connected one of our diagnostic docsis 2 modems and did a speedtest on speedtest.net and maxed out my upload at 5mbit.

Webslingerac

join:2004-05-01
canada

3 edits
reply to 34764170
said by 34764170:

I am and for the speed tier I want its 200GB. I'd easily go over that every single month.

The reasoning involved for a switch demands that Start offers a faster service than Teksavvy (which is what this thread concerns itself with--faster download and upload speeds) and that the user would want to switch for that reason. Otherwise, the conversation is pointless.

In other words, am I (and other users) willing to pay $13+tax more per month to get an extra 10/1 and an extra 100GB download cap (given that myself and others are on Teksavvy's 300 GB Cable 28 plan), which Teksavvy can't offer because it's not using aggregated pois? Probably

Teksavvy does do stop-sells when there are congestion issues and is generally responsive to network problems. I don't know whether the same can be said of Start. Consequently, I may not switch, but the lure of faster speeds is certainly compelling.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
What any TPIA can offer is dependent on the agreement with the incumbent and the rules laid down by the CRTC. The incumbents have historically tried to avoid offering service improvements in a timely manner to TPIAs when they don't have to, although they have been smart enough from time to time to pass on some performance upgrades so as to avoid trips to the CRTC.

It has nothing directly to do with whether it's an aggregated or non-aggregated POI system unless the links from the TPIA to the POI is close to its loading limit, although that will also apply to the aggregated (centralized) POI too ... but instead of a geographic region getting hit, the entire customer base will feel the pain if the pipes are full

The major difference with aggregated and non-aggregated is the access to the incumbent's entire footprint, vs limited geographic regions both have benefits and drawbacks. The existing TPIAs have been constrained somewhat from the aggregated POI in part because of investment by the incumbent in providing the hardware and networking required at the headends needed for the POI. Another reason is to give other TPIAs an opportunity to enter the cable market without the impetous gained by the existing TPIAs from overwhelming them at the same time.

Eventually the existing TPIAs will be allowed to go aggregated but by and large it's out of their hands.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
Unless I'm misreading from some of what you said, existing TPIAs can go on the aggregated network today by calling Rogers but TSI has chosen not to do currently.

In fact, Rogers is trying to speed up the switch as fast as possible.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
said by mlerner:

Unless I'm misreading from some of what you said, existing TPIAs can go on the aggregated network today by calling Rogers but TSI has chosen not to do currently.

In fact, Rogers is trying to speed up the switch as fast as possible.

Which is quite funny as they dragged their heels in setting it up in the first place.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
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No, it's not TSI from my understanding ... Rogers don't actually want the incumbents to go aggregated until they are ready! There's a lot invested in the non-aggregated and there are lease agreements for the links from the POIs back to TSI that have to be sorted out and so on. And they set up planned transitions with the CRTC.

Webslingerac

join:2004-05-01
canada

2 edits
reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:

It has nothing directly to do with whether it's an aggregated or non-aggregated POI system

Higher speed tiers being offered by Start has nothing to do with the fact its using aggregated POIs? Then why is Start offering Rogers Extreme Plus cable internet bandwidth speeds while Teksavvy isn't?

Or are you merely stating there's no technical reason why Teksavvy couldn't offer Extreme Plus speeds on its existing network? (If so, that's just a matter of semantics. The bottom line is that aggregated POIs do matter because the faster speeds can't be offered without them--just not for purely technical reasons.)


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
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I did say "directly" ... the non-aggregated POI model is potentially capable of the speeds, but requires higher bandwidht pipes to the POIs from TSI and bigger routers on Rogers end to sustain the customer base. Why invest in that from either side when in a comparatively short time they will join the aggregation.

Webslingerac

join:2004-05-01
canada
said by sbrook:

I did say "directly" ... the non-aggregated POI model is potentially capable of the speeds

Yeah, o.k., I took that as a given. The bottom line is without aggregated POIs, Teksavvy won't be able to offer higher speed tiers.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
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reply to TSI Martin
said by TSI Martin:

How fast does Docsis 2 allow for upstream? (single channel) I'm hoping that our express customers won't be affected when the speed changes start to apply.

At work I have Rogers Business 12/2 on an old Webstar Docsis 2.0 modem.



So Express customers can definitely handle it without changing from D2 modems.
--



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
reply to Webslingerac
They probably can offer some higher speeds like the 2Mbps up ... but higher speeds adds to the risk of congestion. Rogers has probably been quietly building up their backbone to handle this for their own.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to HiVolt
Retail residential customers will not get an increase for upstream speeds for D2, D3 modem will be required. They could barely handle the 1 meg up on D2 in the first place.

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

said by TSI Martin:

How fast does Docsis 2 allow for upstream? (single channel) I'm hoping that our express customers won't be affected when the speed changes start to apply.

At work I have Rogers Business 12/2 on an old Webstar Docsis 2.0 modem.



So Express customers can definitely handle it without changing from D2 modems.

Depends on the area... Some AREAS just can't handle D2's without seeing congestion. I've seen it over and over, especially in the GTA, or in school areas like WATERLOO


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
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reply to mlerner
said by mlerner:

Retail residential customers will not get an increase for upstream speeds for D2, D3 modem will be required. They could barely handle the 1 meg up on D2 in the first place.

Not sure what you mean, we've had the 2meg up on this D2 modem for a couple years now and never had an issue saturating the upload.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
You're in a business location, likely not many business customers. In residential areas, almost none of the locations can sustain that upstream given the number of residential subscribers. Either way, Rogers is not giving higher upstream speeds to residential subs unless they have a D3 modem.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
said by mlerner:

Either way, Rogers is not giving higher upstream speeds to residential subs unless they have a D3 modem.

Doesn't mean they won't give it to D2 users on TPIA. You can get 18/0.5 on D2 through TPIA, but not through Rogers.

It's entirely possible they'll require D3 for TPIA customers as well, but we've got no solid indication either way yet.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:

They probably can offer some higher speeds like the 2Mbps up ... but higher speeds adds to the risk of congestion. Rogers has probably been quietly building up their backbone to handle this for their own.

The backbone wouldn't be the congestion point.


tsicable

@teksavvy.com
reply to epsilon3
new link from Rogers forum to Rogers red board mentioned the upgrade is for D3 modems.

stormy13

join:2003-10-28
Etobicoke, ON
»redboard.rogers.com/2012/rogers-···to-date/

Starting November 7, 2012 Rogers will begin automatically upgrading Express, Extreme and Extreme Plus internet tiers for customers with DOCSIS 3.0 modems. If you have a DOCSIS 2.0 modem, head into your local Rogers retail location and upgrade to a DOCSIS 3.0 modem and service plan to take advantage of the new speeds.

What you can expect:

Extreme Plus: download speeds will increase from up to 32 Mbps to up to 45 Mbps
Extreme: download speeds will increase from up to 28 Mbps to up to 35 Mbps
Express: download speeds will increase from up to 18 Mbps to up to 25 Mbps


--
MS MVP Windows Expert-Consumer 2010-2012

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to tsicable
said by tsicable :

new link from Rogers forum to Rogers red board mentioned the upgrade is for D3 modems.

But TPIA users are able to use D2 modems for things that Rogers already requires D3 modems for.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
Except the higher speed tiers. Most likely existing TPIA tiers will be grandfathered and the new tier upgrades will be available with aggregated POI.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to bt
said by bt:

said by tsicable :

new link from Rogers forum to Rogers red board mentioned the upgrade is for D3 modems.

But TPIA users are able to use D2 modems for things that Rogers already requires D3 modems for.

and increasingly said users will not receive the appropriate speeds. But that's their own fault.


creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to mlerner
said by mlerner:

Except the higher speed tiers. Most likely existing TPIA tiers will be grandfathered and the new tier upgrades will be available with aggregated POI.

Are you suggesting therefore that TSI users will not see these new speeds due to the dis-aggregated POI?


Dones

join:2008-02-14
Toronto, ON
said by creed3020:

said by mlerner:

Except the higher speed tiers. Most likely existing TPIA tiers will be grandfathered and the new tier upgrades will be available with aggregated POI.

Are you suggesting therefore that TSI users will not see these new speeds due to the dis-aggregated POI?

Didn't they say that for the 15 -> 24 upgrade? And the 24 -> 28? How will this upgrade be different?

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
said by Dones:

Didn't they say that for the 15 -> 24 upgrade? And the 24 -> 28? How will this upgrade be different?

I don't remember that being the case but TPIA's also seemed to have a choice of whether their customers received the bump as Distributel did not take the 15 -> 24 jump until much later than TSI.

highwire2007

join:2008-05-17
Nepean, ON
reply to epsilon3
What does this mean for those of us who haven't seen our nodes upgraded yet (no upstream bonding)? My guess is we're screwed until Rogers decides to complete the upgrade, right? My area is still 4x1 (16QAM), and the Rogers throttle checker website still shows my node as having upstream p2p throttling active.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to 34764170
said by 34764170:

said by bt:

But TPIA users are able to use D2 modems for things that Rogers already requires D3 modems for.

and increasingly said users will not receive the appropriate speeds. But that's their own fault.

Entirely true, but it's possible it won't be on this speed upgrade. It's only TPIA users on 18/0.5 that this matters for right now, though. Rogers already required D3 modems for TPIA users on 28/1, and for their own retail customers for 18/0.5.

Until I know for sure I'll stick with my old D2, though. No point in replacing it until it is actually necessary.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to highwire2007
said by highwire2007:

What does this mean for those of us who haven't seen our nodes upgraded yet (no upstream bonding)?

The process requires Rogers to check out the cable plant in your area as being bonding capable. Although my area is now bonded 4 upstream, each of those channels is still 16QAM, presumably because the plant hasn't been certified to cope with higher QAM modulation techniques.

Rogers is certainly progressing and until they've got your segment and node certified as bondable, you could say you're screwed ... but I suspect there won't be too many in this situation. At least this is better than Rogers normal upgrade system of prepare everywhere and attempt the upgrade and have it fall in a million pieces.


TSI Martin
Premium
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:33
reply to stormy13
Thanks Stormy!