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borntochill

join:2003-02-09
united state
reply to MartinM

Re: CC Disaster

said by MartinM (replying to espaeth) :

Some customers will obviously compare how we managed in that crisis, but I don't think we deserve backlash just for the sake of defending a provider you prefer over us.

In a discussion that shines a bright light on CallCentric's potentially weak links, I think espaeth's remarks looking at Voip.ms's too are fair game. I don't think his measured remarks were backlash against you.

The more resilient all VSPs become...well, everybody wins.


dbmaven
There's no shortage
Premium,Mod
join:1999-10-26
Sty in Sky
kudos:3
reply to borntochill

(topic move) CC Disaster

Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 2 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »Current CallCentric Calling Issues


dutchtender

join:2010-11-21
New York, NY

2 recommendations

reply to borntochill

Re: CC Disaster

voip.ms is not the issue here. they aren't on trial. their strategy of using quality re-sellers was actually prescient as it survived the crises. their strategy survived a 100 year event in Manhattan. CC didn't. Cc apparently has a lot of fancy expensive equipment. give me cheap standards based equipment implemented intelligently any day. And it appears that cc may not have the capital plan in place to make many of the improvements the users seem to desire after this event.

CC's plan did not work. Who cares if they own fancy expensive equipment. Voip.ms plan did work, and apparently with cheaper standards based servers. They also get credit for great transparency and communication. This is another area where CC was found lacking. btw, the free DIDs of CC still don't work. That is being blamed on POTS. But my understanding is that a service provider can change the routing to make them work. That's at least what I learned yesterday.


rwizard
Premium
join:2004-04-20
Roswell, GA

1 recommendation

reply to Telco

Personally, I don't care what mistakes were/weren't made. Those of us who are professionals understand what was a simple miscalculation, and what fell short of basic "good practice". Besides, I had a backup VOIP provider, and they had some storm related issues as well, so my solutions were not perfect either.

At this point, what I care about is what CallCentric does going forward. When the dust settles, and they have made plans for the future, they need to communicate about them. For now, I am adding another backup option on my end, but I intend to give Callcentric adequate time to recover and respond before I make a decision about keeping them as part of my overall plan.

Besides, any company that can conjure up a hurricane in order to stop a DDOS attack has my full attention.



Davesnothere
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1 edit
reply to userofdsl

said by userofdsl:

I was told that voip.ms requires manual customer intervention for failover if the registered server goes down. Is this correct?

 
Last I heard, you are correct.

The settings are normally done some in their portal and some in your ATA unit, where you specify the desired server by its NAME.

But, the company can alternately force a manual reassignment of their DNS 'A' record for any server if needed, as they did during the Sandystorm for their NYC SIP POP and web site.

Anveo (I use their service too) is similar in regard to where you do the settings, except that their failover is advertised to be automatic.
--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
-
START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.



Davesnothere
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2 recommendations

reply to mr

said by mr :

I've been a longtime lurker but as a callcentric customer, wanted to put in my 2cents:

I was more than willing to wait out callcentric's DDOS issues and held them largely blameless for them because it could have happened to anyone, and there's no real way for *anyone* to protect themselves against sophisticated attacks. But the lack of geographic redundancy is troubling and something I'll have to consider going forward....

I would have clicked to 'approve' your post, but you are an 'anon' today.

Your detailed post (only partially quoted above) pretty much sums up in well-chosen and calm words : all of what has recently happened with CC, and what NEEDS to happen going forward.

A non-lurker agrees with you.

gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
kudos:3

2 recommendations

reply to mr

said by mr :

I've been a longtime lurker but as a callcentric customer, wanted to put in my 2cents:

I was more than willing to wait out callcentric's DDOS issues and held them largely blameless for them because it could have happened to anyone, and there's no real way for *anyone* to protect themselves against sophisticated attacks. But the lack of geographic redundancy is troubling and something I'll have to consider going forward. Why? Because planning for disasters in a single site *is* predictable and something plenty of companies do. Talking about how the NYSE was also down obscures the issue that Callcentric doesn't have to rely on a single location like the NYSE does.

Moreover, everyone talks about this hurricane as a once-in-a-lifetime occurrence. That may be true. But there are plenty of other disasters that can occur in a single site. What about a fire in their building? A utility worker who accidentally cuts a crucial line? A water line breaks and floods their floor? The possibilities are endless, and none of them are once-in-a-lifetime events.

It's a little ironic that everyone here advocates having multiple providers, redundant servers, etc. for end-users, some of whom are little more than households or small businesses (good advice, BTW), but somehow a VOIP provider gets a pass for not having thought out their disaster recovery plans, especially when other providers who aren't billion-dollar telcos either somehow managed to do it.

Secondly, for end-users like me, outbound service is easy to make redundant. But a DID *must* come from a single provider. That means I need to trust that provider for my own uptime and reliability. There's very little redundancy I can add. Also, part of the problem is that while customers currently are very understanding if you're a NY-based company and the phones aren't responding, they don't understand why your office is down if you're based in sunny california. Trying to explain that your phone service comes from a company that got hit by a hurricane 2 thousand miles away becomes quite difficult and engenders much less sympathy from your customers.

Anyway, I'm glad callcentric is back up, and I like their service a lot. I don't plan on leaving right now. But if callcentric (and other VOIP providers) doesn't address the reliability concerns going forward, the problem isn't that their customers might leave for other VOIP providers, it's that they abandon VOIP, go back to POTS, and never look at VOIP again. Shrinking the VOIP market is a bad thing for *all* VOIP providers here, so it's incumbent that everyone learn lessons from this past month and try to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

userofdsl

join:2000-07-31
Brighton, MA
reply to Davesnothere

Anveo on my devices is set to use DNS SRV with no ports specified, like the current recommended Callcentric settings. This works in normal operation, and based on a recent forum post by Anveo presumably would result in automatic failover.



Davesnothere
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reply to gweidenh

said by gweidenh:

said by mr :

I've been a longtime lurker but as a callcentric customer, wanted to put in my 2cents: ....

Couldn't have said it better myself!

 
I approve your approval.


Davesnothere
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reply to madjeff

said by madjeff:

said by borntochill:

What my small business clients DO expect me to compare is VoIP services. Within their budgets, they want maximum reliability and a feature set appropriate to their needs. They want me to recommend the provider or providers best able to deliver those things.

I have clients set up with both Voip.ms and CallCentric. Both are good companies....

Eloquently said and exactly the points we need to focus on.

 
Absolutely !

[Post was only partially quoted]

royrogers

join:2012-10-17
reply to Telco

How is it that Callcentric's power has been restored, but the news reports keep saying power for Manhattan will be restored Saturday?


rblizz

join:2001-12-16
North Richland Hills, TX
Reviews:
·Callcentric

said by royrogers:

How is it that Callcentric's power has been restored, but the news reports keep saying power for Manhattan will be restored Saturday?

Some of lower Manhattan has been restored, some hasn't. I think the report means that power will be completely restored by Saturday.


Davesnothere
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reply to royrogers

said by royrogers:

How is it that Callcentric's power has been restored, but the news reports keep saying power for Manhattan will be restored Saturday?

 
Caramilk secret.


Bluster

@conformal.com

Re: CC Disaster - they will be all right

With CC back I think their problems with losing subscribers will be minor; most people won't care that their DID is with a non-redundant service.

They will figure the odds are against another big outage like Sandy, and will simply enjoy CC's good sound and reliability.

Iscream has made one statement here, that setting up geographically separate servers is not necessarily not in the plans, but that they work within a budget, etc. That is probably enough; any more would just get the haters, aka critics, down on him.

Things are quiet, calls are going through. CC will soon be back at the top of the charts. One example of how this will happen is a recent review cautioning that a backup or two would not hurt, but giving them 95 percent. That is what I call customer loyalty!

The only thing missing is PX Eliezer. I hope he got through Sandy with no problems and will soon re-join us here to celebrate CC's resurrection.


Mango
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join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net
kudos:13

He's fine but still without electricity.


kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL

1 recommendation

said by Mango:

He's fine but still without electricity.

You mean he doesn't have distributed redundant backup power sources? j/k, glad to hear he's fine.

josephf

join:2009-04-26
reply to Mango

You know him?



Davesnothere
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reply to kaila

said by kaila:

said by Mango:

He's fine but still without electricity.

You mean he doesn't have distributed redundant backup power sources? j/k, glad to hear he's fine.

 
Yes, Good to hear !

= = = = = = =

On a related topic, then I expect that he's now forced to watch TV by Candlelight.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to Telco

Re: CC Disaster

Finally home to take some calls and quality seems fine. Maybe a tad better if that is possible.



Anon236

@comcast.net
reply to mr

said by mr :

Secondly, for end-users like me, outbound service is easy to make redundant. But a DID *must* come from a single provider. That means I need to trust that provider for my own uptime and reliability. There's very little redundancy I can add. Also, part of the problem is that while customers currently are very understanding if you're a NY-based company and the phones aren't responding, they don't understand why your office is down if you're based in sunny california. Trying to explain that your phone service comes from a company that got hit by a hurricane 2 thousand miles away becomes quite difficult and engenders much less sympathy from your customers.

From an end user standpoint it seems this is the bottom line and it's one aspect of VoIP that won't be changing anytime soon.

-DIDs are by definition subject to a single point of failure (this is not specific to VoIP)
-If a natural disaster hits your DID interconnection, your DIDs may fail (this is not specific to VoIP either - look at all the Verizon COs in Manhattan that are still out)
-Most people would assume your DID to be located where you are located, and if it's not, they're confused. E.g. disaster in NYC takes out your phone service in CA. (this is the only difference between VoIP and PSTN)

So what are viable solutions to this?
-Stick with POTS?
-Find a VoIP provider using a facilities based CLEC in your local area, so you are affected by the same natural disasters at the same time?
-Run all the DIDs through an area with extremely low incidence of natural disaster? I think I read once that Boise, ID had the lowest risk of natural disaster of any US city.

I don't really know, just musing.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

said by Anon236 :

DIDs are by definition subject to a single point of failure (this is not specific to VoIP)

I don't believe that is correct.

said by Anon236 :

-Stick with POTS?

This wouldn't help per se, you are more tied to a single point of failure with POTS than you are with VOIP. If the "central office" servicing your location goes down (for whatever reason), you loose all capability.


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
reply to Telco

I'm glad we are discussing the points of failure... but when it comes down to it.. NOTHING is invincible. Some are just stronger than others.



a0jslfdk

@snydernet.net
reply to Anon236

Get two or three DIDs for your business from different providers; print the numbers on your business cards and put them on your website.



espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
reply to AVonGauss

said by AVonGauss:

said by Anon236 :

DIDs are by definition subject to a single point of failure (this is not specific to VoIP)

I don't believe that is correct.

Single device failure? No.

Single entity / region failure? Yes.

xLEC failure or rate center call routing failure will take out DIDs.

travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
reply to Bluster

Re: CC Disaster - they will be all right

said by Bluster :

Things are quiet, calls are going through.

Things may be quiet, but they are not all back to normal. CC DIDs hosted in NYC are still out with no ETA.

I was fortunate enough to be using a Google Voice number as my public number, so it was easy enough for me to redirect calls to that number, but it is a bit of a pain.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

said by travelguy:

said by Bluster :

Things are quiet, calls are going through.

Things may be quiet, but they are not all back to normal. CC DIDs hosted in NYC are still out with no ETA.

I was fortunate enough to be using a Google Voice number as my public number, so it was easy enough for me to redirect calls to that number, but it is a bit of a pain.

To clarify, this is NOT CC's fault. The equipment this is provided through in NYC is still down. So this is beyond CC's control.

dutchtender

join:2010-11-21
New York, NY

said by ropeguru:

said by travelguy:

said by Bluster :

Things are quiet, calls are going through.

Things may be quiet, but they are not all back to normal. CC DIDs hosted in NYC are still out with no ETA.

I was fortunate enough to be using a Google Voice number as my public number, so it was easy enough for me to redirect calls to that number, but it is a bit of a pain.

To clarify, this is NOT CC's fault. The equipment this is provided through in NYC is still down. So this is beyond CC's control.

my DIDs are 914 upstate. any idea why they aren't working? they are not in NYC.

josephf

join:2009-04-26

914 is Westchester County, bordering NYC, which is also a declared Federal disaster area.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to dutchtender

said by dutchtender:

my DIDs are 914 upstate. any idea why they aren't working? they are not in NYC.

No I cannot. The DID's that travelguy See Profile was referring to and I clarified were New York City DID's.

Is yours a NY free DID? I remember something being mentioned about all the NY free DID's being down because of the way they get them from their carrier who is down and has an unknown ETA of being back up.


espaeth
Digital Plumber
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join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
reply to dutchtender

said by dutchtender:

my DIDs are 914 upstate. any idea why they aren't working? they are not in NYC.

The majority of the exchanges in area code 914 are LATA 132 (NYC Metro). Just because it's an "upstate number" doesn't mean the interconnect gear is physically located upstate; it can be located anywhere in the LATA network boundary which could include NYC proper.