 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC |
to robbin
Re: Generator doesn't work with Power Vent Hot Water Heatersaid by robbin:Yes, this is too much to ask in an emergency situation. Give safe advice or don't give any. Don't give unsafe advice and expect the forum regulars to bail you out or teach you why what you are recommending is dangerous. 1 - I gave a suggestion to a direct question, with WARNINGS. 2 - So because we're in emergency mode, the forum must stop educating? I say, if you can't explain the danger, then you don't understand it either. It's okay to warn people of the danger, go ahead. I will stand back and I won't disagree, better safe than sorry. BUT, you should know that you are appearing like you're just repeating what Nunya said, but don't actually understand. |
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 robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX |
robbin
Mod
2012-Nov-1 10:02 pm
said by alkizmo:I say, if you can't explain the danger, then you don't understand it either.
It's okay to warn people of the danger, go ahead. I will stand back and I won't disagree, better safe than sorry. BUT, you should know that you are appearing like you're just repeating what Nunya said, but don't actually understand.
I've explained the danger but you have ignored it. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC |
said by robbin:I've explained the danger but you have ignored it.
Quote those pertinent sections, I may have missed them, or thought you were wrong. |
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 garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI |
to robbin
said by robbin:said by alkizmo:I say, if you can't explain the danger, then you don't understand it either.
It's okay to warn people of the danger, go ahead. I will stand back and I won't disagree, better safe than sorry. BUT, you should know that you are appearing like you're just repeating what Nunya said, but don't actually understand.
I've explained the danger but you have ignored it. Then I've missed it, too. Let's say the neutral-ground connection cord was used at the generator, and the generator ground was connected to the house ground. Let's assume it's being used to power the WH with metallic piping. How is this more dangerous than using utility power? How is any danger made worse (compared to utility power) if the generator so configured is also powering other loads via extension cords? |
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robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
1 edit
1 recommendation |
robbin
Mod
2012-Nov-1 10:16 pm
Simple. There is no ground fault protection. So when the old extension cord powering the electric skillet has a nick on the hot and that brushes against the wife or baby who is also touching any grounded device, it could create a life threatening situation. Everything is more dangerous when people are using extension cords and at times like this people drag out every old cord they can find. You don't plan for the best scenario, you plan for the worst. Unfortunately, as often happens in emergencies such as this one, people will lose their lives, not from the storm, but from taking chances they would not normally take. |
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garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI |
garys_2k
Premium Member
2012-Nov-1 10:43 pm
So, the additional hazard you see is the lack of GFCIs. Granted, but for short term use this is not, IMHO, a significant issue.
GFCIs do save lives, mostly regarding use of appliances in wet areas, but the number of lives saved are significant when considered over a wide geographic area and over a long time. In essence, it's a statistical improvement.
The odds of being electrocuted with a source not protected via a GFCI are very small. Less with the protection, yes, but even without it's a very small increase in hazard. If the odds of being shocked went from 0.0001% to 0.00001% then sure, it's better, but was the danger really that high to begin with? |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC |
to robbin
said by robbin:Simple. There is no ground fault protection. So when the old extension cord powering the electric skillet has a nick on the hot and that brushes against the wife or baby who is also touching any grounded device, it could create a life threatening situation. Everything is more dangerous when people are using extension cords
said by robbin:Everything is more dangerous when people are using extension cords
Yes yes And a floating neutral sort of helps on protection. BUT someone getting in contact with a nicked extension cord connected to a N/G bonded generator will not get shocked any more than if it was connected to a house receptacle on utility power (unless it was a GFCI receptacle). So instead, you should have said (And I am going to say it now): Frink, if you go to home depot, buy an extension cord with GFCI protection and run things through it. They will protect you, even if there is no ground. Also, frink, copper rod = useless, if you do use one, you'd have to bond it with your house's grounding electrode (probably cold water entry). Instead, buy copper wire #6 gauge long enough to connect your generator's chassis to the grounding conductor of your electrical panel (probably another #6 bare copper wire going to your cold water entry pipe). |
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GenNewbie to robbin
Anon
2012-Nov-2 9:37 am
to robbin
So I see for about $30-35 I can buy a 2 foot extension cord that appears to have a GFCI protected triplex plug. In other words, if I plug that into the generator and then the extension cord I want to run into that, does this solve many of the safety issues that is causing the stir?
I hope so as it would be a quick, convenient and easy fix and provide a great piece of mind. Thank you. |
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 sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD |
sk1939
Premium Member
2012-Nov-2 9:42 am
That would work so long as you are not connecting it to your house wiring. |
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GenNewbie
Anon
2012-Nov-2 10:22 am
By that you mean back feeding the panel? I am not doing that.
I am currently running 1 new 10 gauge outdoor type extension cord. I would plan to use this new short GFCI cord between that cord and the generator to "protect" the connection. If that works, it would seem like $30 very well spent. |
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garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI |
garys_2k
Premium Member
2012-Nov-2 10:46 am
said by GenNewbie :By that you mean back feeding the panel? I am not doing that.
I am currently running 1 new 10 gauge outdoor type extension cord. I would plan to use this new short GFCI cord between that cord and the generator to "protect" the connection. If that works, it would seem like $30 very well spent.
You'll be fine. The GFCI does add some peace of mind and protection, good idea. The N-G bond "jumper cord" enables it to work with your WH, that's fine, too. Good luck on your outage! |
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GenNewbie
Anon
2012-Nov-2 11:36 am
Thanks very much. It will be great to have hot water and know that we are (mostly) safe. As always, I will be as safe as I can, use decent materials and try to be smart about things. I just never thought about the GFCI being in line in an extension cord. Genius!
I really appreciate the help! |
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