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real_goose

join:2001-04-13
Apollo Beach, FL
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reply to Davesnothere

Re: Where are the SERVERS ? - Summary

Localphone: Amsterdam NL Automatic failover DNS SRV

Since there is no mention of server locations on the Localphone website, I asked and received the response: "Currently our servers are located in Amsterdam in the Netherlands, I understand there are plans to also open servers in Virginia in the near future. The AMS servers handle all the failover as there are duplicate servers for all systems." The device guides for some devices show turning on DNS SRV.


Davesnothere
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reply to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:

said by User834:

How can the bottom line be anything other than, "do I have the services I paid for?"

 
One more bottom line:

"Does the customer have a disaster recovery plan?"

Voip is a wonderful service saving us $$$. But IMHO the user needs to have a disaster recovery plan.

Having at least one backup voip provider and a cell phone is always a good part of a disaster recovery plan.

Your internet connection could also fail so a backup internet connection should be considered. Your provider can have geo redundancy but that won't help you if your internet connection fails.

Also, an UPS must be considered as mandatory for a responsible voip user.

 
Yes, we all need to practise what some of us so fervently preach.

And yes, I have all of those things, except the 2 ISPs.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
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Ditto - except for 2 ISPs - have cell phones (that don't work very well in our house). That's why we have Voip.


XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX
Two ISP is a bit overkill.
That's the reason why I went to a GSM gateway.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Arne Bolen
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said by XCOM:

I went to a GSM gateway.

Have you tried using voip through the GSM gateway? If so, how is the quality?
--
My VoIP News
Expand your moderator at work


XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX
reply to Arne Bolen

Re: Where are the SERVERS ? - Summary

Arne,

Yes I have.
The quality is a good as your normal VoIP. There is time where the system has failed over and I have not even notice.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Arne Bolen
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said by XCOM:

The quality is a good as your normal VoIP. There is time where the system has failed over and I have not even notice.

Thanks, it's interesting info. Are you using 3G or 4G in your GSM gateway?
--
My VoIP News


XCOM
digitalnUll
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said by Arne Bolen:

said by XCOM:

The quality is a good as your normal VoIP. There is time where the system has failed over and I have not even notice.

Thanks, it's interesting info. Are you using 3G or 4G in your GSM gateway?

Arne,

I apologize I miss understood your original question.
I am not actually failing over data. I have a logic that checks for the ITSP availability. It ether returns with a 1 or a 0. 0 Fails over to the GSM gateway and uses the gateway for all outbound calls... The same logic applies from the ITSP's to me. If they see me not register than they send all calls to my GSM gateway. If it returns 1 than the interconnection continues to the ITSP. In my own opinion I didn't find failing over data an actual fail over solution. In case of a natural disaster we are going to be lucky if cell alone works. Back in Ike my cell worked but there was no data going on the network no 3G or 4G but basic incoming and outgoing calls where working.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Arne Bolen
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Thanks. I just thought you used voip over the GSM data connection.

The way you are using the GSM gateway is probably better as you don't risk latency and jitter. I have tested voip over a 3G data connection and I find the quality to be unacceptable for daily use, but it can be used if there are no other options.
--
My VoIP News

grand total

join:2005-10-26
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reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

And BTW, then does this observation also imply that if I am in Canada, 2 hours from Montreal, that I should specify ca.anveo.com rather than sip.ca.anveo.com ? (in my ATA)

No definitely not. It will not work. If you want to prioritise the Canadian server with a fallback of the US server use sip.ca.anveo.com.

Assuming you use Windows, start a cmd window and type nslookup. Then at the prompt type set type=srv, then type _sip._udp.<domain you are interested in>

See the example below.


Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\User>nslookup
Default Server: Default-Server
Address: 192.168.29.1

> set type=srv
> _sip._udp.sip.ca.anveo.com
Server: Default-Server
Address: 192.168.29.1

Non-authoritative answer:
_sip._udp.sip.ca.anveo.com SRV service location:
priority = 20
weight = 100
port = 5010
svr hostname = sip.anveo.com
_sip._udp.sip.ca.anveo.com SRV service location:
priority = 10
weight = 100
port = 5010
svr hostname = sip.ca.anveo.com
>


--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI


Davesnothere
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2 edits
said by grand total:

said by Davesnothere:

And BTW, then does this observation also imply that if I am in Canada, 2 hours from Montreal, that I should specify ca.anveo.com rather than sip.ca.anveo.com ? (in my ATA)

No definitely not. It will not work. If you want to prioritise the Canadian server with a fallback of the US server use sip.ca.anveo.com.

Assuming you use Windows, start a cmd window and type nslookup. Then at the prompt type set type=srv, then type _sip._udp.<domain you are interested in> ....

 
Thanks, and you are right - that one does not register my ATA.

Here is a list of all possible server names and results :

anveo.com - register - 3 servers on nslookup
sip.anveo.com - register - 2 servers on nslookup

sip.ca.anveo.com - register - 2 servers on nslookup
ca.anveo.com - NO register - nslookup says "domain does not exist"

sip.de.anveo.com - register - 2 servers on nslookup
de.anveo.com - NO register - nslookup says "domain does not exist"

OK, so anveo.com gives all 3 servers, each beginning with sip. gives 2 servers, but different combos, and the other choices without the sip. prefix say no good.

My ATA accepts any domain which NSLOOKUP accepts, and registers those choices.

NEXT QUESTION : in the NSLOOKUP output, is 10 a higher priority than 20 ? (and so on) - Instinctively I would have expected the opposite.


Arne Bolen
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said by Davesnothere:

NEXT QUESTION : in the NSLOOKUP output, is 10 a higher priority than 20 ? (and so on) - Instinctively I would have expected the opposite.

Yes, 10 is a higher priority than 20.

Imagine a long queue, if you are number 10 in that queue and your friend is number 20 you will be served before your friend.
--
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Davesnothere
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said by Arne Bolen:

Yes, 10 is a higher priority than 20.

Imagine a long queue, if you are number 10 in that queue and your friend is number 20 you will be served before your friend.

 
Ahhhh, thanks.

"Now serving number 83, number 83 please...."

OK, then what does 'weight' do ? (I notice that Anveo sets all of theirs to 100 and that CallCentric always uses 0 for that field.)


Arne Bolen
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said by Davesnothere:

"Now serving number 83, number 83 please...."

Now I think of the TV commercial with the long iPhone queue and the people outside of that queue with Samsung Galaxy phones. The guy in the iPhone queue happily says "Maybe we get that feature next year".

said by Davesnothere:

OK, then what does 'weight' do ? (I notice that Anveo sets all of theirs to 100 and that CallCentric always uses 0 for that field.)

Weight: A relative weight for records with the same priority

The priority field determines the precedence of use of the record's data. Clients always use the SRV record with the lowest-numbered priority value first, and fallback to other records of equal or higher priority if the connection to the host fails.

If a service has multiple SRV records with the same priority value, clients use the weight field to determine which host to use. The weight value is relevant only in relation to other weight values for the service, and only among records with the same priority value.
--
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Davesnothere
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said by Arne Bolen:

....If a service has multiple SRV records with the same priority value, clients use the weight field to determine which host to use. The weight value is relevant only in relation to other weight values for the service, and only among records with the same priority value.

 
So it would seem that 'weight' is a sort of 'fine-tuning' for 'priority'.


Arne Bolen
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said by Davesnothere:

So it would seem that 'weight' is a sort of 'fine-tuning' for 'priority'.

Correct. But it is only used among records with the same priority value.
--
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ThaiGuy

join:2008-05-10
Thailand
This is a good thread. Recent events have proved that users cannot rely on service reliability statements on a providers web site. Unless they are prepared to go into detail about their network setup and redundancy plans, their sales pitches should be taken with a pinch of salt.

There is a good overview of Priority and weight at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record


Arne Bolen
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1 edit
said by ThaiGuy:

Recent events have proved that users cannot rely on service reliability statements on a providers web site.

I use several providers and so far I have not found any unreliable statements.
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gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
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reply to Davesnothere
Weight allows for you to concentrate traffic on higher power machines.

For example, if one machine was a 2 processor box, and one machine was a 4 processor box, in theory I would want to put 2 times the amount of traffic on the 4P box.

'Weight' allows me to do this.


Davesnothere
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reply to ThaiGuy
said by ThaiGuy:

This is a good thread.

Recent events have proved that users cannot rely on service reliability statements on a providers web site.

Unless they are prepared to go into detail about their network setup and redundancy plans, their sales pitches should be taken with a pinch of salt.

There is a good overview of Priority and weight at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record

 
After certain recent events, I am inclined to agree.

Part of this thread's raison d'etre is to point out and clarify such info about common VoIP providers.

And thanks for the link. - I should have thought of that myself, however Arne was handy at the time.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
 
SOME MORE INFO about several providers' servers' locations :

»Re: CC Disaster


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
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reply to Davesnothere
What would be way more interesting is to know the actual make up of the data center.

Technically, I could pop a PBX in a place, hook it to some sip trunks, and call it a backup CO.

I'm sure there's some providers with 1 or 2 mega centers.... and others with 4 or 5 micro centers.

I would guess the mega center would work better overall.

nitzan
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said by VexorgTR:

Technically, I could pop a PBX in a place, hook it to some sip trunks, and call it a backup CO.

And you'd still be more reliable than a provider with NO disaster recovery facility at all.

Hurricanes aside, can you imagine what would happen to a single-site provider if a fire destroyed their entire facility? they wouldn't be down for days - they'd be down for months or possibly forever. Having multiple geo locations is not about how big you are - it's about being able to remain in business when disaster strikes.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
said by nitzan:

....Hurricanes aside, can you imagine what would happen to a single-site provider if a fire destroyed their entire facility? they wouldn't be down for days - they'd be down for months or possibly forever.

Having multiple geo locations is not about how big you are - it's about being able to remain in business when disaster strikes.

 
And hurricanes CAN cause fires, water damage from sprinkler systems, and of course direct flooding.

CC's equipment escaped any of that - THIS time.

But look at that NYC neighbourhood where a ruptured gas main during Sandy's strike was believed to have set off a string of fires destroying about 100 homes !


VexorgTR

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reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:

Hurricanes aside, can you imagine what would happen to a single-site provider if a fire destroyed their entire facility? they wouldn't be down for days - they'd be down for months or possibly forever. Having multiple geo locations is not about how big you are - it's about being able to remain in business when disaster strikes.

I think the other part of the argument is Quality over Quantity. I have CallCentric and some other guys too all in my PBX. CallCentric in our opinion gives the best sound, and best call completion. What happens many times is my PBX tries to call with the "Other guys"... then after that call flops for whatever reason, it completes it with CallCentric. If you have 30K clients, your secondary and primary servers really need some power. Otherwise you could end up with 'Call cannot be completed' I don't want to start another fight, but the "call cannot be completed" crew is a "more redundant" company discussed earlier in the thread.

What got CallCentric so popular in the first place was Quality... for a long darn time, it just worked great. Of all the providers in my PBX, CC still is the favorite. However, the "Other Guys" did their job keeping the lines of communication open during the outages.

You could have 30 data centers, but that doesn't guarantee good quality. It doesn't hurt though.

I've said many times, provider redundancy is nice, but as a business user of VOIP, I have to show some responsibility for my own redundancy too.


XCOM
digitalnUll
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This is not a case of user responsibility. Do not try to flip the coin. This is a service providers responsibility.... ATLEAST TRY and get ready for what was heading up their way. This is a case of bad choices, poor implementation, and lack of caring for their customers. I fully understand the situation and how bad it is but that does not mean that they had no time to prepare for what was coming.
This is going down the drain quick.
I am done with this subject.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


espaeth
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reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

Part of this thread's raison d'etre is to point out and clarify such info about common VoIP providers.

Still with no summary...

The part of this thread that is potentially misleading is that it tends to suggest that if your provider has geographic redundancy you're covered. That may not be the case.

- DID outages can still occur even if the provider soft-switch is not located in an outage area. Every provider listed in this thread has taken a hit to DID service on the east coast. You can move the SIP portion of call control pretty much anywhere with IP connectivity, but the gateway back to the TDM world has a physical location requirement.

- Even with geographic distribution of resources, there are still single elements of failure. Notably in the VoIP market, that's going to be the accounting database. Providers need to know if you're an authorized user, and if you have funds available to complete a call. When operating multiple nodes, that means they all have to agree on customer credential and balance information. This is typically handled by either having all call processing nodes point to a central DB, or leveraging DB replication functions to distribute the DB availability. The key problem in either case would be the introduction of data corruption.

- Depending on your provider's chosen E911 vendor, E911 services may be linked to a single point of failure.

- I've noticed at least one provider here is using GoDaddy for domain registration. If you do a cursory google search you will find it is ridiculously easy to get a domain suspended with GoDaddy. If someone were to craft a social engineering attack for a Friday night, there is a very good chance the NS records for the domain will remain pointed to "NS1 & NS2.SUSPENDED-FOR.SPAM-AND-ABUSE.COM" until they can take it up with a manager in the Abuse department on Monday morning.

DBOD

join:2012-10-17
reply to Davesnothere
For me as a small business owner, voip provider uptime is more important than quality in a disaster. Still I would not accept poor quality as a trade off. I have at least 5 single points of failure within my office. My voip providers vulnerability just adds to the problem. Nobody dies if my office is closed for a few days. It hurts my pocket book but there is a limit to how much redundancy/reliability I can afford. Callcentric's record is good enough for me. This last month has taught me a lot and I am better prepared for what might come next.

I live in earthquake country. I never expected to apologize to my customers for a hurricane. If everyone one in the neighborhood is having power and phone problems my customers understand. When Sandy hit and I lost my phones, my customers had no clue as to what was happening. For local business it would be better to not be offline at all but if you have to go down, go down with your customers. So now I am susceptible to both PG&E outages and Coned outages. Still the utiliy companies are fairly reliable and that is what I can afford. I'm sticking with Callcentric for now. They fill a niche in the market I am in. About once a year we get an unexpected day off .. I mean a power outage.

BYOD VOIP is not for sissies! Buck up or get a POTS line. Wait? I have had way to many POTS lines fall off the telephone pole behind my office....


Davesnothere
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2 edits
reply to Davesnothere
 
Here's an interesting and related anecdote about a VoIP provider called Localphone :

»Re: CC Disaster

I had not heard about this company before earlier during the current thread.

Here : »Re: Where are the SERVERS ? - Summary