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FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

RE: EFF Reminds Us That Open WiFi Isn't A Bad Thing.

Yes, I'll tell my lawyer that(the EFF said I should be OK) after the police knock down my door looking for child porn or a copyright violator because someone used my open network{/sarcasm}.

People sharing their network(cable TOS be damned), are just asking for unneeded grief for what benefit? That they helped the common good?
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

Or perhaps call it refusing to succumb to the fear. The fear perpetuated by those that would rather see 2 or 3 more Internet accounts or 3G/4G data plans or the elimination of the 'I have an opened Internet' defense. The thing is, it is not some 'common good' that one has to support... it's that there is NOTHING WRONG with supporting it (TOS be damned). The problem that should be railed against is the fact that police knock down peoples' doors looking for child porn or a copyright violator based only on a claim of association with an IP address and no additional investigation. That is unacceptable.



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

2 edits
reply to FFH

In MY city Police routinely KILL people, escalating minor things in order to FORCE people to try to escape or defend themselves for a MINOR ISSUE, a Jay Walking warrant will do. Is THAT the Amerika you want to live in? I'd rather die fighting that, as so many AmeriCans have died to preserve THAT FREEDOM.

By the way, my city is a poor city, with the welfare bureaucrats as everywhere else stealing huge salaries, benefits beyond belief, perks beyond imagination and leaving crumbs for the people that actually NEED IT. MY open connection has resulted in at least 10 kids graduating college and getting out of this. I know cause they tracked me down and thanked me. There were probably many more that didn't. Yeah... MY open connection is evil.

If you want to place fault, place it where it belongs with the miles of civil servants and bureaucrats and politicians that feed off anything. Want to drop welfare costs? Set up a card table once a month in every village, town and city. Give everyone that shows up there 2 packets of $100's wrapped from the bank, no questions asked. Fire all the current bureaucrats. The poor will live better and the taxpayer will pay less.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

said by meeeeeeeeee:

In MY city Police routinely KILL people, escalating minor things in order to FORCE people to try to escape or defend themselves for a MINOR ISSUE

Sounds like police have good reason to shoot down Newburgh citizens, many of which are gang members.
»nymag.com/news/crimelaw/newburgh-2011-10/
»www.npr.org/2012/03/14/148160372···es-crime
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

3 edits

said by FFH:

said by meeeeeeeeee:

In MY city Police routinely KILL people, escalating minor things in order to FORCE people to try to escape or defend themselves for a MINOR ISSUE

Sound like police have good reason to shoot down Newburgh citizens, many of which are gang members.
»nymag.com/news/crimelaw/newburgh-2011-10/

They have good press and a corrupt government to back them. When it hits Federal Court, they ALWAYS settle for MILLIONS because they know they have no case. Don't believe all the propaganda you read.

By the way, the last two people MURDERED by Police had no gang ties... Geee.... They MUST have been terrorists. Can't WAIT till it starts happening in YOUR neighborhood. CRY THEN.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

Sounds like police have good reason to shoot down Newburgh citizens, many of which are gang members.

Doubtful. Way too many times I've observed police that have used ridiculously excessive force for no good reason.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to FFH

Considering the MAFIAA can fabricate evidence and buy judges at the drop of a hat. I will keep my wifi secured with WPA2-AES and a long complex passcode until our laws change so that I am not liable for what goes over my connection.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
reply to FFH

Re: EFF Reminds Us That Open WiFi Isn't A Bad Thing.

said by FFH:

Yes, I'll tell my lawyer that(the EFF said I should be OK) after the police knock down my door looking for child porn or a copyright violator because someone used my open network{/sarcasm}.

People sharing their network(cable TOS be damned), are just asking for unneeded grief for what benefit? That they helped the common good?

I can do whatever the hell i want with my property (my router) and not you or anyone else can prevent me from having an open wifi connection if i choose to. "cable TOS be damned" or not. lets see anyone try and stop me.

many business do this all around the world and there's nothing anyone can do about it, get used to it.

kruser
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Eastern MO
reply to FFH

Re: RE: EFF Reminds Us That Open WiFi Isn't A Bad Thing.

said by FFH:

Yes, I'll tell my lawyer that(the EFF said I should be OK) after the police knock down my door looking for child porn or a copyright violator because someone used my open network{/sarcasm}.

People sharing their network(cable TOS be damned), are just asking for unneeded grief for what benefit? That they helped the common good?

Exactly what happened to the young kid in the apartment behind my apartment.
The swat team came in with full force - 20 guys wearing full body armor, automatic assault rifles and battering rams etc.
They accused him of credit card fraud and identity theft.
I know this kid well. He knows enough to turn a computer on and that is about it.
The SWAT team left and some detectives and evidence technician's stayed behind and executed a search warrant for every digital device in his apartment that could connect over ethernet or be plugged into a computer.
They spent hours in his apartment inventorying everything and then hauled it all away.
They let the kid go a few hours later after they determined the real perps had done the bad deeds via his open WiFi router.
No evidence was found on the kids computer or Wii or Xbox or thumb or other external storage drives or devices etc.

It's been well over a year now and the poor kid still does not have his computer back. Nothing. The only thing he knows for certain is that he is not a suspect but they will not tell him if he will get his property back. I suspect he will never see it again.

For this very reason, I never have nor will I ever have an open Wifi access. Heck, I disable my wireless routers radios when I'm not using them as it is. I have all my stuff hardwired as that is the only way I feel close to safe from those with bad thoughts.
Especially in an apartment complex where many could be trying to hack into the tons of wireless signals available. It's just not worth the risk or embarrassment of having the swat team come in one day in broad daylight prepared to bust your door down and then take all your computer equipment that you may never see again.
I've seen it happen with my own eyes. For those that run open access, be warned, it does happen and you are going to take the fall for doing it if someone uses your connection and uses it for illegal activities.

The kid behind me did get legal help but they could not even get his electronic equipment back for him.
He was so upset that he required psychological help after he started drinking as a result of the swat team coming into his apartment. He shook like a leaf on a tree for months expecting them to come back and take him away for something he did not do.
The kid only has a sister. His parents were killed in an automobile accident a few years earlier. He did not know what to do or where to turn for help or advice. He was scared shitless for something he did not do. No close local family other than a younger sister and some distant relatives like cousin's. Very few friends when this happened but he has some now. He'd moved here after his parents were killed as he did have some distant relatives here plus his employer offered to help him out when he relocated.
His employer still helped him out after the SWAT team ordeal. They paid for the legal advice and then bought him new computer equipment. He needed it for his employment after it was determined that the local or federal authorities could or would not say if he would ever get his property back.
His employer is a giant worldwide company that I cannot name. I will give them credit for supporting the kid though and also helping him out in a time of need.
I taught him about computer security and also helped him hardwire everything after he decided he would stay living here.
He said he felt like an outlaw and did not even know if he could continue living here over the embarrassment alone that was caused him. He almost lost his job but an very understanding boss offered full support after he learned of what had happened.
I was the one that suggested he contact his boss and explain all that took place. The kid was too embarrassed to do that at first but finally did when his boss started asking him about missed days and lack of attention which was not normal for him.
He has now mostly recovered from it all but never saw any of his confiscated property again. He does not own a wireless router or access point. He would not even get a cell phone but his employer insisted so he has the closest thing he could find to a phone only phone without any other features.


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

His legal advisor wasn't very good I'm afraid to say. If you allow police (including the alphabet soup boys) to act like thugs, they will act like thugs. They become much more professional when faced with several multi-million dollar lawsuits.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to FFH

its not right for them to keep the electronics if its not containing evidence. I would certainly be tempted to call them every day saying I want my stuff back.

fortunately it is far easier to just secure the wifi.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports



Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1
reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

Considering the MAFIAA can fabricate evidence and buy judges at the drop of a hat. I will keep my wifi secured with WPA2-AES and a long complex passcode until our laws change so that I am not liable for what goes over my connection.

Oh well in that case since you have it so tight and secure, it was definitely you who downloaded what they accuse you of downloading.


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

said by Xioden:

said by Kearnstd:

Considering the MAFIAA can fabricate evidence and buy judges at the drop of a hat. I will keep my wifi secured with WPA2-AES and a long complex passcode until our laws change so that I am not liable for what goes over my connection.

Oh well in that case since you have it so tight and secure, it was definitely you who downloaded what they accuse you of downloading.

Yep... sounds pretty case closed to me. No gray area there at all, beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt.
--
Isn't it sad that those that raise their right hand and swear "to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" are usually the ones most likely to trash it.