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w8sdz

join:2001-05-21
Port Orange, FL

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reply to User834

Re: Where are the SERVERS ? - Summary

said by User834:

VoIP customers are usually primarily interested in the reliability and availability of three things:

1. The ability to place outgoing calls from my phone.

2. The ability to receive incoming calls to my DID.

3. The ability to provision or make changes to account account/service.

The bottom line is: does the provider have a disaster recovery plan? Unfortunately Callcentric does not.

Think about this: What would happen if a natural or man-made disaster totally destroyed your provider's central operation.

One example of a good recovery plan is Anveo which has three data centers, widely separated in three different countries.

Your standard formula does't work when a single-site provider is destroyed.

--
73 de w8sdz - sip:w8sdz@getonsip.com - Google+: »plus.google.com/+w8sdz


Davesnothere
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2 edits
said by w8sdz:

The bottom line is: Does the provider have a disaster recovery plan ? ....

 
.... right, and if yes, then what sort of a plan ?

Essentially that is all I wish to establish at this time.

AND, I am trying to avoid words which are open to misinterpretation, such as some of those contained in CallCentric's self-posted mission statement description on their own site.

grand total

join:2005-10-26
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reply to w8sdz
said by w8sdz:

One example of a good recovery plan is Anveo which has three data centers, widely separated in three different countries.

One small observation, if you want the security of servers on three sites make sure you specify anveo.com as the proxy rather than sip.anveo.com, sip.ca.anveo.com or sip.de.anveo.com. It's the only SRV record that points to all three servers.
--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI

User834

join:2012-10-31
Columbus, OH

1 recommendation

reply to w8sdz
said by w8sdz:

said by User834:

VoIP customers are usually primarily interested in the reliability and availability of three things:

1. The ability to place outgoing calls from my phone.

2. The ability to receive incoming calls to my DID.

3. The ability to provision or make changes to account account/service.

The bottom line is: does the provider have a disaster recovery plan? Unfortunately Callcentric does not.

Think about this: What would happen if a natural or man-made disaster totally destroyed your provider's central operation.

One example of a good recovery plan is Anveo which has three data centers, widely separated in three different countries.

Your standard formula does't work when a single-site provider is destroyed.

How can the bottom line be anything other than, "do I have the services I paid for?"

A provider can have 100 servers, yet a single failure might render your DID number completely unworkable until it's resolved. Of course having a single server or a single location makes it vulnerable to location-wide disasters that affect all of their services, but that's just one of many failure modes that will affect the services you paid for.

userofdsl

join:2000-07-31
Brighton, MA
reply to grand total
said by grand total:

One small observation, if you want the security of servers on three sites make sure you specify anveo.com as the proxy rather than sip.anveo.com, sip.ca.anveo.com or sip.de.anveo.com. It's the only SRV record that points to all three servers.

Done, and thanks.

Anveo should document things like this.


Arne Bolen
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reply to User834
said by User834:

How can the bottom line be anything other than, "do I have the services I paid for?"

One more bottom line:
"Does the customer have a disaster recovery plan?"

Voip is a wonderful service saving us $$$. But IMHO the user needs to have a disaster recovery plan. Having at least one backup voip provider and a cell phone is always a good part of a disaster recovery plan.

Your internet connection could also fail so a backup internet connection should be considered. Your provider can have geo redundancy but that won't help you if your internet connection fails.

Also, an UPS must be considered as mandatory for a responsible voip user.
--
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XCOM
digitalnUll
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said by Arne Bolen:

said by User834:

How can the bottom line be anything other than, "do I have the services I paid for?"

One more bottom line:
"Does the customer have a disaster recovery plan?"

Voip is a wonderful service saving us $$$. But IMHO the user needs to have a disaster recovery plan. Having at least one backup voip provider and a cell phone is always a good part of a disaster recovery plan.

Your internet connection could also fail so a backup internet connection should be considered. Your provider can have geo redundancy but that won't help you if your internet connection fails.

Also, an UPS must be considered as mandatory for a responsible voip user.

+1
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


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2 edits
reply to userofdsl
said by userofdsl:

said by grand total:

One small observation, if you want the security of servers on three sites make sure you specify anveo.com as the proxy rather than sip.anveo.com, sip.ca.anveo.com or sip.de.anveo.com.

It's the only SRV record that points to all three servers.

Done, and thanks.

Anveo should document things like this.

 
Fixed it for ya !

But seriously, how does one get an SRV record to reveal itself ?

I'm still a N00B on that.

And BTW, then does this observation also imply that if I am in Canada, 2 hours from Montreal, that I should specify ca.anveo.com rather than sip.ca.anveo.com ? (in my ATA)

On test, their Montreal server did yield a notably sharter PING than the next best one (USA) for me.


Davesnothere
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reply to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:

said by User834:

How can the bottom line be anything other than, "do I have the services I paid for?"

 
One more bottom line:

"Does the customer have a disaster recovery plan?"

Voip is a wonderful service saving us $$$. But IMHO the user needs to have a disaster recovery plan.

Having at least one backup voip provider and a cell phone is always a good part of a disaster recovery plan.

Your internet connection could also fail so a backup internet connection should be considered. Your provider can have geo redundancy but that won't help you if your internet connection fails.

Also, an UPS must be considered as mandatory for a responsible voip user.

 
Yes, we all need to practise what some of us so fervently preach.

And yes, I have all of those things, except the 2 ISPs.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
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Ditto - except for 2 ISPs - have cell phones (that don't work very well in our house). That's why we have Voip.


XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
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Two ISP is a bit overkill.
That's the reason why I went to a GSM gateway.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Arne Bolen
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said by XCOM:

I went to a GSM gateway.

Have you tried using voip through the GSM gateway? If so, how is the quality?
--
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Expand your moderator at work


XCOM
digitalnUll
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Spring, TX
reply to Arne Bolen

Re: Where are the SERVERS ? - Summary

Arne,

Yes I have.
The quality is a good as your normal VoIP. There is time where the system has failed over and I have not even notice.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Arne Bolen
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said by XCOM:

The quality is a good as your normal VoIP. There is time where the system has failed over and I have not even notice.

Thanks, it's interesting info. Are you using 3G or 4G in your GSM gateway?
--
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XCOM
digitalnUll
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said by Arne Bolen:

said by XCOM:

The quality is a good as your normal VoIP. There is time where the system has failed over and I have not even notice.

Thanks, it's interesting info. Are you using 3G or 4G in your GSM gateway?

Arne,

I apologize I miss understood your original question.
I am not actually failing over data. I have a logic that checks for the ITSP availability. It ether returns with a 1 or a 0. 0 Fails over to the GSM gateway and uses the gateway for all outbound calls... The same logic applies from the ITSP's to me. If they see me not register than they send all calls to my GSM gateway. If it returns 1 than the interconnection continues to the ITSP. In my own opinion I didn't find failing over data an actual fail over solution. In case of a natural disaster we are going to be lucky if cell alone works. Back in Ike my cell worked but there was no data going on the network no 3G or 4G but basic incoming and outgoing calls where working.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Arne Bolen
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Thanks. I just thought you used voip over the GSM data connection.

The way you are using the GSM gateway is probably better as you don't risk latency and jitter. I have tested voip over a 3G data connection and I find the quality to be unacceptable for daily use, but it can be used if there are no other options.
--
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grand total

join:2005-10-26
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reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

And BTW, then does this observation also imply that if I am in Canada, 2 hours from Montreal, that I should specify ca.anveo.com rather than sip.ca.anveo.com ? (in my ATA)

No definitely not. It will not work. If you want to prioritise the Canadian server with a fallback of the US server use sip.ca.anveo.com.

Assuming you use Windows, start a cmd window and type nslookup. Then at the prompt type set type=srv, then type _sip._udp.<domain you are interested in>

See the example below.


Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\User>nslookup
Default Server: Default-Server
Address: 192.168.29.1

> set type=srv
> _sip._udp.sip.ca.anveo.com
Server: Default-Server
Address: 192.168.29.1

Non-authoritative answer:
_sip._udp.sip.ca.anveo.com SRV service location:
priority = 20
weight = 100
port = 5010
svr hostname = sip.anveo.com
_sip._udp.sip.ca.anveo.com SRV service location:
priority = 10
weight = 100
port = 5010
svr hostname = sip.ca.anveo.com
>


--
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Anveo - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI


Davesnothere
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2 edits
said by grand total:

said by Davesnothere:

And BTW, then does this observation also imply that if I am in Canada, 2 hours from Montreal, that I should specify ca.anveo.com rather than sip.ca.anveo.com ? (in my ATA)

No definitely not. It will not work. If you want to prioritise the Canadian server with a fallback of the US server use sip.ca.anveo.com.

Assuming you use Windows, start a cmd window and type nslookup. Then at the prompt type set type=srv, then type _sip._udp.<domain you are interested in> ....

 
Thanks, and you are right - that one does not register my ATA.

Here is a list of all possible server names and results :

anveo.com - register - 3 servers on nslookup
sip.anveo.com - register - 2 servers on nslookup

sip.ca.anveo.com - register - 2 servers on nslookup
ca.anveo.com - NO register - nslookup says "domain does not exist"

sip.de.anveo.com - register - 2 servers on nslookup
de.anveo.com - NO register - nslookup says "domain does not exist"

OK, so anveo.com gives all 3 servers, each beginning with sip. gives 2 servers, but different combos, and the other choices without the sip. prefix say no good.

My ATA accepts any domain which NSLOOKUP accepts, and registers those choices.

NEXT QUESTION : in the NSLOOKUP output, is 10 a higher priority than 20 ? (and so on) - Instinctively I would have expected the opposite.


Arne Bolen
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said by Davesnothere:

NEXT QUESTION : in the NSLOOKUP output, is 10 a higher priority than 20 ? (and so on) - Instinctively I would have expected the opposite.

Yes, 10 is a higher priority than 20.

Imagine a long queue, if you are number 10 in that queue and your friend is number 20 you will be served before your friend.
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Davesnothere
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said by Arne Bolen:

Yes, 10 is a higher priority than 20.

Imagine a long queue, if you are number 10 in that queue and your friend is number 20 you will be served before your friend.

 
Ahhhh, thanks.

"Now serving number 83, number 83 please...."

OK, then what does 'weight' do ? (I notice that Anveo sets all of theirs to 100 and that CallCentric always uses 0 for that field.)


Arne Bolen
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said by Davesnothere:

"Now serving number 83, number 83 please...."

Now I think of the TV commercial with the long iPhone queue and the people outside of that queue with Samsung Galaxy phones. The guy in the iPhone queue happily says "Maybe we get that feature next year".

said by Davesnothere:

OK, then what does 'weight' do ? (I notice that Anveo sets all of theirs to 100 and that CallCentric always uses 0 for that field.)

Weight: A relative weight for records with the same priority

The priority field determines the precedence of use of the record's data. Clients always use the SRV record with the lowest-numbered priority value first, and fallback to other records of equal or higher priority if the connection to the host fails.

If a service has multiple SRV records with the same priority value, clients use the weight field to determine which host to use. The weight value is relevant only in relation to other weight values for the service, and only among records with the same priority value.
--
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Davesnothere
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said by Arne Bolen:

....If a service has multiple SRV records with the same priority value, clients use the weight field to determine which host to use. The weight value is relevant only in relation to other weight values for the service, and only among records with the same priority value.

 
So it would seem that 'weight' is a sort of 'fine-tuning' for 'priority'.


Arne Bolen
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said by Davesnothere:

So it would seem that 'weight' is a sort of 'fine-tuning' for 'priority'.

Correct. But it is only used among records with the same priority value.
--
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ThaiGuy

join:2008-05-10
Thailand
This is a good thread. Recent events have proved that users cannot rely on service reliability statements on a providers web site. Unless they are prepared to go into detail about their network setup and redundancy plans, their sales pitches should be taken with a pinch of salt.

There is a good overview of Priority and weight at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record


Arne Bolen
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1 edit
said by ThaiGuy:

Recent events have proved that users cannot rely on service reliability statements on a providers web site.

I use several providers and so far I have not found any unreliable statements.
--
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gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
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reply to Davesnothere
Weight allows for you to concentrate traffic on higher power machines.

For example, if one machine was a 2 processor box, and one machine was a 4 processor box, in theory I would want to put 2 times the amount of traffic on the 4P box.

'Weight' allows me to do this.


Davesnothere
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reply to ThaiGuy
said by ThaiGuy:

This is a good thread.

Recent events have proved that users cannot rely on service reliability statements on a providers web site.

Unless they are prepared to go into detail about their network setup and redundancy plans, their sales pitches should be taken with a pinch of salt.

There is a good overview of Priority and weight at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record

 
After certain recent events, I am inclined to agree.

Part of this thread's raison d'etre is to point out and clarify such info about common VoIP providers.

And thanks for the link. - I should have thought of that myself, however Arne was handy at the time.


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1 edit
 
SOME MORE INFO about several providers' servers' locations :

»Re: CC Disaster


espaeth
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reply to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:

Part of this thread's raison d'etre is to point out and clarify such info about common VoIP providers.

Still with no summary...

The part of this thread that is potentially misleading is that it tends to suggest that if your provider has geographic redundancy you're covered. That may not be the case.

- DID outages can still occur even if the provider soft-switch is not located in an outage area. Every provider listed in this thread has taken a hit to DID service on the east coast. You can move the SIP portion of call control pretty much anywhere with IP connectivity, but the gateway back to the TDM world has a physical location requirement.

- Even with geographic distribution of resources, there are still single elements of failure. Notably in the VoIP market, that's going to be the accounting database. Providers need to know if you're an authorized user, and if you have funds available to complete a call. When operating multiple nodes, that means they all have to agree on customer credential and balance information. This is typically handled by either having all call processing nodes point to a central DB, or leveraging DB replication functions to distribute the DB availability. The key problem in either case would be the introduction of data corruption.

- Depending on your provider's chosen E911 vendor, E911 services may be linked to a single point of failure.

- I've noticed at least one provider here is using GoDaddy for domain registration. If you do a cursory google search you will find it is ridiculously easy to get a domain suspended with GoDaddy. If someone were to craft a social engineering attack for a Friday night, there is a very good chance the NS records for the domain will remain pointed to "NS1 & NS2.SUSPENDED-FOR.SPAM-AND-ABUSE.COM" until they can take it up with a manager in the Abuse department on Monday morning.