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jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA

Day 5, no power

Day 5 of no power here.

The power was restored briefly yesterday, and didn't even last an hour before it went out again. PPL estimates it will be Sunday at 11pm at the earliest for most customers- some could be out until next week.

My house is freezing. We have a portable generator, but it only runs a few things and the electric heat isn't one of them.

Gas is getting tough to find. The gas lines at the stations that are open here are hours long because of the influx of motorists from NY & NJ coming in to fill up not only their cars but their gas cans as well. Stations are running out of gas, and fights are breaking out on the gas lines. Now the cops have to go the gas stations to keep the customers from killing each other.

I lived through this in the 70's, I hoped I wouldn't see this type of thing again.

I am well aware- and thankful- that I am a lot better off than those poor folks in Queens, Staten Island, and the Jersey shore, I just needed to vent.

I've made up my mind about one thing though- next time there is a monster storm headed this way I am not sticking around. I intend to get the hell out of Dodge until it's all over. Never again.

I wish all of you who are suffering the impacts of this disaster the best.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
I spoke with a friend from work located in White Plains NY, the issue there: stations with no power to pump gas from the tanks are closed and the stations that do have power have been sucked dry. People drive around trying to find gas and line up if they find one open.


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
said by PrntRhd:

I spoke with a friend from work located in White Plains NY, the issue there: stations with no power to pump gas from the tanks are closed and the stations that do have power have been sucked dry. People drive around trying to find gas and line up if they find one open.

Which begs the question- why don't gas stations have generators?

Secondly- wouldn't it be possible to siphon gas directly from an underground tank even if a station has no power? Or is it too long a run?

If things are this bad now, I could just imagine how bad they will get in a national disaster.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


diablo1892
R.I.P. Donald Lee Wise

join:2011-04-21
Friendly, WV
kudos:1
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reply to jazzlady
said by jazzlady:

Day 5 of no power here.

The power was restored briefly yesterday, and didn't even last an hour before it went out again. PPL estimates it will be Sunday at 11pm at the earliest for most customers- some could be out until next week.

Samething happened here before (this past summer time) it was aweful.. It was 100 degrees F and sometimes even higher and it really came down to death for some people. Cold is worse than burning up though, thats the bad thing for you at this time. We could not reach 911 services nor anyone else in my area due to the entire area was without power for a drastic long time, all cell phone towers were down and out for just a day or two..
Luckily our power came back on at the end of day 4 and stayed on but on day 3 it came on and stayed on for nearly an hour, we heard that some transformers were blown up so then it toke them some time to fix that.
Our local coverage news channel was unavailable for a long time as well and as far as i know its still nonoperational due to equipment failure i believe. It was really bad at the time, but for me it was just wait and see (while in the proccess of staying calm for an entire day and night without no generator and no power)


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 edit
reply to jazzlady
said by jazzlady:

Which begs the question- why don't gas stations have generators?

Probably because they cannot raise prices enough to cover the costs of portable electric generation. As you well know with your generator it costs a lot more to produce electricity with that than it does to buy it from the power company.

But interestingly enough, even electrical power plants cannot run off the power they produce... It has to go through a substation first.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to PrntRhd
You would think that these stores (at least some) would have backup generators. I would imagine they have lost more money than what it would cost for a generator.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to jazzlady
said by jazzlady:

said by PrntRhd:

I spoke with a friend from work located in White Plains NY, the issue there: stations with no power to pump gas from the tanks are closed and the stations that do have power have been sucked dry. People drive around trying to find gas and line up if they find one open.

Which begs the question- why don't gas stations have generators?

Secondly- wouldn't it be possible to siphon gas directly from an underground tank even if a station has no power? Or is it too long a run?

If things are this bad now, I could just imagine how bad they will get in a national disaster.

They do require larger gas stations in South Florida to have backup generators per state law just because of the hurricane threat.
www.allianceforaging.org/pdfs/hurricanepreparedness.pdf


djdanska
Rudie32
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join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA
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reply to jazzlady
said by jazzlady:

said by PrntRhd:

I spoke with a friend from work located in White Plains NY, the issue there: stations with no power to pump gas from the tanks are closed and the stations that do have power have been sucked dry. People drive around trying to find gas and line up if they find one open.

Which begs the question- why don't gas stations have generators?

Secondly- wouldn't it be possible to siphon gas directly from an underground tank even if a station has no power? Or is it too long a run?

If things are this bad now, I could just imagine how bad they will get in a national disaster.

The gas station i worked at in the midwest did have a generator. It was only set for the main store, and limited to a few lights and all the networking/computer/registers we had. It wasn't feasible to have our pumps on a generator considering how much power they used. Was literally enough to let you go inside, pay for whatever gas you used and leave. After a bit, it shut down all network an pos systems we had to prevent damage.
--
The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan


David
I start new work on
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join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
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reply to PrntRhd
The gas station I was at had a Natural Gas generator. We had like 12 pumps. In a power outage it could only sustain 8, security equipment, POS equipment and subsequent networking. No hotdogs, no soda, and the cooler full of soda.

So they could still sell gas but in a limited capacity.


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:

said by jazzlady:

Which begs the question- why don't gas stations have generators?

Probably because they cannot raise prices enough to cover the costs of portable electric generation. As you well know with your generator it costs a lot more to produce electricity with that than it does to buy it from the power company.

The oil companies are rich enough to supply every gas station in America with a generator.

That's barely pocket change for them considering their staggeringly high profits with gas prices what they are and oil prices below $90 a barrel. It's probably a tax write-off as well.

As for the cost of running the thing- my 8000 watt generator takes about 5 gallons a day if running for about 12-16 hours. Even if a bigger genny were needed for a gas station, it still wouldn't cost them all that much to run it for say- 12 hours a day, because they would make the money back in profits.

A diesel or natural gas generator would cost much less to run.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to battleop
said by battleop:

You would think that these stores (at least some) would have backup generators. I would imagine they have lost more money than what it would cost for a generator.

We have a Weis and a Giant market here.

Tons of food had to be thrown out because of potential spoilage and defrosting.

I totally agree with you- it would cost a LOT less to have an industrial sized generator to power the store than to have to throw away tens of thousands of dollars worth of food.

It's not like the power doesn't go out in this area on a regular basis either. This crap happens ALL the time.

It really pissed me off that much of the food they were tossing in the dumpsters was still good- like eggs- and could have been given to the local shelters instead. Such a waste.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to PrntRhd
said by PrntRhd:

said by jazzlady:

said by PrntRhd:

I spoke with a friend from work located in White Plains NY, the issue there: stations with no power to pump gas from the tanks are closed and the stations that do have power have been sucked dry. People drive around trying to find gas and line up if they find one open.

Which begs the question- why don't gas stations have generators?

Secondly- wouldn't it be possible to siphon gas directly from an underground tank even if a station has no power? Or is it too long a run?

If things are this bad now, I could just imagine how bad they will get in a national disaster.

They do require larger gas stations in South Florida to have backup generators per state law just because of the hurricane threat.

One would think it would be similar here because of the snow and ice storm threat, but it isn't.

Maybe it's time to contact my local representatives about it...
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to David
said by David:

The gas station I was at had a Natural Gas generator. We had like 12 pumps. In a power outage it could only sustain 8, security equipment, POS equipment and subsequent networking. No hotdogs, no soda, and the cooler full of soda.

So they could still sell gas but in a limited capacity.

There you go. Even if a generator was only able to power a couple of pumps, it would be enough to keep people supplied with fuel needed for their own generators. It would be a whole lot better than nothing at all- which is the way it is in most of NY and NJ.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to jazzlady
BTW- we got our power back late yesterday.

I hope it stays on this time, but with another storm bearing down on us it is worrisome.

This is going to be like the winter of 1995-1996. Anybody remember that? That was the winter from Hell. We had a snow storm or ice storm, sometimes 2 or 3 of them- every week that winter. It was awful.

We filled up all the cars and the gas cans, now we just need a decent siphon in case we need to get gas out of one of the cars.

Siphon suggestions appreciated BTW. We don't have one, and I don't want hubby to have to try doing that with a piece of tubing... ugh.

I hope others are getting their power back as well, because it's really getting cold...
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


djdanska
Rudie32
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to jazzlady
said by jazzlady:

said by pnh102:

said by jazzlady:

Which begs the question- why don't gas stations have generators?

Probably because they cannot raise prices enough to cover the costs of portable electric generation. As you well know with your generator it costs a lot more to produce electricity with that than it does to buy it from the power company.

The oil companies are rich enough to supply every gas station in America with a generator.

That's barely pocket change for them considering their staggeringly high profits with gas prices what they are and oil prices below $90 a barrel. It's probably a tax write-off as well.

As for the cost of running the thing- my 8000 watt generator takes about 5 gallons a day if running for about 12-16 hours. Even if a bigger genny were needed for a gas station, it still wouldn't cost them all that much to run it for say- 12 hours a day, because they would make the money back in profits.

A diesel or natural gas generator would cost much less to run.

The oil companies are rich enough, but our station was not owned by any oil company. We get the majority of our profits from people buying stuff inside. Not the gas. Can't afford it.
--
The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan


djdanska
Rudie32
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to jazzlady
said by jazzlady:

said by battleop:

You would think that these stores (at least some) would have backup generators. I would imagine they have lost more money than what it would cost for a generator.

We have a Weis and a Giant market here.

Tons of food had to be thrown out because of potential spoilage and defrosting.

I totally agree with you- it would cost a LOT less to have an industrial sized generator to power the store than to have to throw away tens of thousands of dollars worth of food.

It's not like the power doesn't go out in this area on a regular basis either. This crap happens ALL the time.

It really pissed me off that much of the food they were tossing in the dumpsters was still good- like eggs- and could have been given to the local shelters instead. Such a waste.

Out here, they bring in multiple semi trailers and put all the stuff that needs to be refrigerated or frozen in them. No loss assuming they can get there soon enough, which they usually can.
--
The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to diablo1892
said by diablo1892:

said by jazzlady:

Day 5 of no power here.

The power was restored briefly yesterday, and didn't even last an hour before it went out again. PPL estimates it will be Sunday at 11pm at the earliest for most customers- some could be out until next week.

Samething happened here before (this past summer time) it was aweful.. It was 100 degrees F and sometimes even higher and it really came down to death for some people. Cold is worse than burning up though, thats the bad thing for you at this time.
Our local coverage news channel was unavailable for a long time as well and as far as i know its still nonoperational due to equipment failure i believe. It was really bad at the time, but for me it was just wait and see (while in the proccess of staying calm for an entire day and night without no generator and no power)

TBH- I think heat is worse than cold.

At least with cold, you can put on more clothes, and bundle up. You can get into bed with extra blankets and warm up to a certain extent.

With heat- and no power- there is absolutely nothing a person can do to cool themselves off.

If you check the statistics there are more heat related than cold related deaths.

Back in 2003 there was a massive heat wave in Europe, where the use of air conditioning (at least back then) was not widespread. There were 35,000 deaths from that heat wave alone.

Our cable went out, but came back on- so I can relate to being without information of any kind.

The one local radio station we have, even if they do have power- is more interested in playing "the hits" for endless stretches of time rather than providing useful information to the public. Someone ought to remind them that the airwaves they use belong to the public.

We have a local college with huge backup generators and a functioning radio station- and during this emergency- or any emergency- they broadcast useless programming from the BBC instead of useful info.

I intend to make a huge stink over this fact after everything gets back to normal.

Why this station can't be pressed into service as a command center of information and manned by some of the hundreds of students that live there on campus is beyond me.

In an emergency, nothing sucks worse than not only being in the dark, but being without ANY information whatsoever about the situation one is in.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to jazzlady
said by jazzlady:

As for the cost of running the thing- my 8000 watt generator takes about 5 gallons a day if running for about 12-16 hours. Even if a bigger genny were needed for a gas station, it still wouldn't cost them all that much to run it for say- 12 hours a day, because they would make the money back in profits.

don't forget, a gas station get the fuel wholesale.
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
said by AVD:

said by jazzlady:

As for the cost of running the thing- my 8000 watt generator takes about 5 gallons a day if running for about 12-16 hours. Even if a bigger genny were needed for a gas station, it still wouldn't cost them all that much to run it for say- 12 hours a day, because they would make the money back in profits.

don't forget, a gas station get the fuel wholesale.

True.

I don't know what the profit margin is on fuel, but FWIW- the stations here that do have power have already jacked their prices up by about .20 cents a gallon, and they don't have hungry generators to feed.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to djdanska
said by djdanska:

The oil companies are rich enough, but our station was not owned by any oil company. We get the majority of our profits from people buying stuff inside. Not the gas. Can't afford it.

Your situation may be different, but I would think that for 90+% of gas stations around the country- they're company owned.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


djdanska
Rudie32
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
said by jazzlady:

said by djdanska:

The oil companies are rich enough, but our station was not owned by any oil company. We get the majority of our profits from people buying stuff inside. Not the gas. Can't afford it.

Your situation may be different, but I would think that for 90+% of gas stations around the country- they're company owned.

Most of the gas stations around here are franchised. Not owned by the oil company. You can't rely on just gas to survive. It's impossible.
--
The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to djdanska
said by djdanska:

said by jazzlady:

said by battleop:

You would think that these stores (at least some) would have backup generators. I would imagine they have lost more money than what it would cost for a generator.

We have a Weis and a Giant market here.

Tons of food had to be thrown out because of potential spoilage and defrosting.

I totally agree with you- it would cost a LOT less to have an industrial sized generator to power the store than to have to throw away tens of thousands of dollars worth of food.

It's not like the power doesn't go out in this area on a regular basis either. This crap happens ALL the time.

It really pissed me off that much of the food they were tossing in the dumpsters was still good- like eggs- and could have been given to the local shelters instead. Such a waste.

Out here, they bring in multiple semi trailers and put all the stuff that needs to be refrigerated or frozen in them. No loss assuming they can get there soon enough, which they usually can.

Nothing like that is done here.

My neighbor stood watching in horror as good food was thrown into dumpsters. If it were my supermarket, I would have given it away. People were picking stuff out of the dumpsters anyway.

Such a waste, and so stupid of the supermarkets to not have generators.

When you live in the snow belt, during the winter there will be no way to get semi's here because more often than not- route 80 will be shut down due to a truck accident.

This stretch of 80 is one of the worst highways in the nation, and we have weeks- even in good weather- where it gets shut down 3 times a week due to tractor trailer accidents.

So what happens in this case? The supermarkets get a tax write-off, and the insurance company picks up the tab for the lost goods? I'm really not sure how it works.

Sounds like poor planning to me, when a generator would have prevented the loss in the first place, and they're in an area where this happens all the time.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


djdanska
Rudie32
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
said by jazzlady:

Nothing like that is done here.

My neighbor stood watching in horror as good food was thrown into dumpsters. If it were my supermarket, I would have given it away. People were picking stuff out of the dumpsters anyway.

Such a waste, and so stupid of the supermarkets to not have generators.

When you live in the snow belt, during the winter there will be no way to get semi's here because more often than not- route 80 will be shut down due to a truck accident.

This stretch of 80 is one of the worst highways in the nation, and we have weeks- even in good weather- where it gets shut down 3 times a week due to tractor trailer accidents.

So what happens in this case? The supermarkets get a tax write-off, and the insurance company picks up the tab for the lost goods? I'm really not sure how it works.

Sounds like poor planning to me, when a generator would have prevented the loss in the first place, and they're in an area where this happens all the time.

The power company here, ComEd is well, known for taking their time and we lost power for simple things like rain showers. Jewel-Osco is very well prepared for these type of things. You never know the weather here.
--
The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise.
Alden Nowlan

severach

join:2002-09-12
Jackson, MI
reply to jazzlady
You'd think that any station owner with a lick of sense would race home and take the generator from momma to power the station. There's gold in them thar tanks if I can just pump it out.

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

1 recommendation

reply to jazzlady
Profit margins on gas are generally VERY low and they are loss leaders. I've been to quite a few places where the store owner complains that they make little to NO money on the gas they sale. The gas simply draws people in so that they buy other things that the store owners CAN make some money from...


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to severach
said by severach:

You'd think that any station owner with a lick of sense would race home and take the generator from momma to power the station. There's gold in them thar tanks if I can just pump it out.

I heard of a few gas stations in NJ doing exactly that- which proves it *can* be done.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to severach
said by severach:

You'd think that any station owner with a lick of sense would race home and take the generator from momma to power the station. There's gold in them thar tanks if I can just pump it out.

THIS
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to djdanska
Some of the BI-LOs here have gensets to power their coolers and freezers but they don't seem to have enough power to open a store.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
reply to djdanska
said by djdanska:

said by jazzlady:

said by djdanska:

The oil companies are rich enough, but our station was not owned by any oil company. We get the majority of our profits from people buying stuff inside. Not the gas. Can't afford it.

Your situation may be different, but I would think that for 90+% of gas stations around the country- they're company owned.

Most of the gas stations around here are franchised. Not owned by the oil company. You can't rely on just gas to survive. It's impossible.

I don't really know how franchises work. I thought the company still owned the station and it was a sort of profit sharing deal. Maybe not. I honestly don't know, so maybe you're right.
--
“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Sinclair Lewis

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
It depends on who owns the land. The franchise location may lease the station from the oil company landlord, they may lease the land from a real estate investment trust or may own the land outright.
If leasing, a big $$$ chunk goes to the lease.