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DarkDune

@verizon.net

FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Hey folks,

I am on hold forever today with Verizon support, requesting that they switch my FiOS connection to Ethernet instead of MoCA.

Can anyone describe or confirm that their latency improved after switching away from MoCA?

I am also curious if anyone can describe the extra encapsulation/decapsulation process that Ethernet packets have to endure when being prepped to go over a MoCA connection. I am really interested to better understand why is adds latency to regular Internet traffic.

Thanks!



DarkDune

@verizon.net

BTW: If I finally get Verizon on the phone, I'll post before and after latency results.

Here are a few before results from speedtest.net, pingtest.net, and a ping to my Verizon Gateway IP.







C:\Users\username>ping 108.49.145.1 -t

Pinging 108.49.145.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125

Ping statistics for 108.49.145.1:
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 8ms


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30
reply to DarkDune

Anecdotal evidence suggests it's on the order on 1-2ms.
No one that I'm aware of has done any quantifiable tests.

There is no extra encapsulation. What is transmitted on MOCA are ethernet frames. MOCA is a mesh network, which means only one device on the coax can transmit at a time. When a device wants to transmit has to wait for its turn. There is also additional buffering into and out of the MOCA transceiver chip on each end.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


ScrawnyB

join:2004-05-18
Carlisle, PA
kudos:1
reply to DarkDune

My first-hop latency dropped about 3-4ms.

I think I can confidently say that you are looking at a 2~5ms change no matter what.

There is definitely some overhead with MoCA networking, but as I said, you are looking at ~5ms difference in going to ethernet for your WAN connection.

I think right now, I get 2-3ms on my first hop (outside of my network to Verizon), after the MoCA to ethernet conversion:

--- 98.117.0.1 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9009ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 2.182/2.427/2.855/0.172 ms
 


DarkDune

@verizon.net

Thanks for the info. That is a significant drop in latency to your first hop, upstream router. Especially for Gaming.

Of course, due to Hurricane Sandy, I may not reach any Verizon Technicians this weekend :smileysad:

Hurricane Sandy Service Update: Verizon Technicians Out in Force This Weekend to Restore Services, Serve Customers
»newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···ice.html

»newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···3-12.JPG

Verizon workers are working 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to restore services in Lower Manhattan

»newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···andy.jpg

Verizon technicians restore electronics in an underground facility that was flooded in Dulles Corner, Va.

ScrawnyB

join:2004-05-18
Carlisle, PA
kudos:1

You might want to do the online support stuff, and just ask them to switch it. Be warned, it took them FOREVER (hours) to get mine properly switched, even though its a matter of them resetting the ONT and what not. However, mine is likely not the typical case.



DarkDune

@verizon.net

Thanks!

Yeah, I did go to Verizon Direct (»Verizon Direct). I think due to the work this weekend, Verizon techs have not been checking it since Nov. 3rd. I will hang in there. Many, many people in the hardest hit areas from Hurricane Sandy need their help more than me right now, so I understand.

I am impressed with Verizon's effort though on this restoration! Good luck Verizon!

Here are some videos about the restoration efforts in lower Manhattan and Rhode Island:

»www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl···dckem9DE

»www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl···IxS6PakI


ScrawnyB

join:2004-05-18
Carlisle, PA
kudos:1

Verizon normally has a "Live Chat" option, but I'm guessing they took it down due to their restoration efforts. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

But yeah, no idea how long until the Direct forum gets checked, probably Monday or Tuesday.

It's not like you don't have service anyways. Just be prepared for a disruption at random though, and you'll want to have your equipment hooked up already.


McBane

join:2008-08-22
Plano, TX

Mine dropped an average of 30ms, it was much more than just maybe 5ms. Maybe it was just he quality of the RG6 at my old apartment when I was on MOCA, but I went from 35ms to my gateway to about 5ms on BPON. Now on GPON at my house I ping my gateway at about 1-2ms.


ScrawnyB

join:2004-05-18
Carlisle, PA
kudos:1

holy crap, lol, well I think you bring up a good point, which means that quality of the coaxial network, including its physical cabling may indeed matter in the latency of the network.

I want to put an asterisk besides your comments, stating "These results are not typical" for the switch from MoCA to Ethernet WAN.



DarkDune

@verizon.net

Wow! Thanks for that FYI. I will post the info once I get Verizon on the phone and they make the change. Obviously they are really busy this weekend.



DarkDune

@verizon.net

Verizon switched it!

Here is that ping difference to the first hop upstream router (note that the gateway IP changed):

Before the switch (from the OP):

C:\Users\username>ping 108.49.145.1 -t

Pinging 108.49.145.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125

Ping statistics for 108.49.145.1:
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 8ms

After the switch:

C:\Users\username>ping 108.20.201.55 -t

Pinging 108.20.201.55 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63

Ping statistics for 108.20.201.55:
Packets: Sent = 9, Received = 9, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 3ms, Average = 1ms

Pretty interesting. So using the Coaxial (note you may need to if you have TV through FiOS) adds almost 7-10 ms to the ping!



DarkDune

@verizon.net
reply to DarkDune

Hey!

Livechat is back! For the moment anyhow...

I am chatting with Verizon now about this...will keep you posted!



birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9
reply to DarkDune

said by DarkDune :

adds almost 7-10 ms to the ping!

should read "in my sample, 6 to 9, averaging 7ms" since YMMV applies.

Everybody knows a GrammarNazi. I freak out on inaccurate analysis. Sorry. Nice results, any way expressed.

codydog

join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI
reply to DarkDune

How do I know if I'm on Moca or not? I'd love to reduce latency here


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1
reply to DarkDune

If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package


eival

join:2008-07-09

the main bonus about Ethernet is its easier to setup QoS and other things with any user friendly 3rd party routers GUI than Verizon's with its stupid warning page every time you try to access a submenu and overly technical language


sykchyld

join:2008-12-26
Syracuse, NY
reply to DarkDune

Dark sign in on a real account if you have not reached anyone yet and ill attempt to help you.


codydog

join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI

I'm on 75/35 which is max where I am although I would gladly pay for 150/65. Low latency is very important to me.

Current ping times are little better than Cox. Any way V can make an exception on this?


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

If you get their 150Mbs package alone it is cheaper, but you will have to agree to a 2 year contract.



birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9
reply to codydog

One quick visual check: is anything plugged in to the WAN ethernet port on the Actiontec? If not, and you have internet, you are using MoCA.

But, just because you have something plugged into it, doesn't mean you're using ethernet WAN. Log in to the router status page and look on the left panel for Broadband Connection type. It will identify either coax or ethernet


codydog

join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI

thanks. its coax



birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

You (or someone with the tools) can run your own ethernet. I don't remember if you previously posted you are restricted by landlord or not. That may be the barrier.



ctaranto

join:2011-12-14
MA
reply to brianiscool

said by brianiscool:

If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package

That simply is not true. I have FiOS TV and Internet. The Internet is 35/35. I'm using Ethernet to the Actiontec. I just had to ask.

-Craig


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to brianiscool

quote:
If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package
NOT TRUE

If you have FiOS TV, you can use cat5 wiring for your internet, the router still gets fed with COAX for use with the TV services.

Anyone can buy their own cat5e and run it to router, and call to switch it to ethernet. LEAVE THE COAX IN PLACE.


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

Ethernet is optional at the customers request for all plans under 150/65.

Ethernet is required for the 150 and 300 plan.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to ITALIAN926

For shits and Giggles, I just switched my internet from MocA to ethernet, I shaved off a whole 6ms off my ping. Will I ever notice a difference? Doubtful.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to DarkDune

Why are you pinging two different servers, then comparing them? Shouldnt you be pinging the SAME destination?


ScrawnyB

join:2004-05-18
Carlisle, PA
kudos:1

His IP (and subsequently, his gateway) changed whenever his connection was switched from moca/coax to ethernet, as a result of the DHCP release/renew process.

Not all of Verizon's IP's are in the same (sequential) IP pool/subnets for one area.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Ohhhh I thought he was pinging an outside server, I get it now, thanx