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wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Future Nine Corp..

Porting to Anveo or Voip.ms

I noticed that recently Anveo and Voip.ms have reduced their cost to port numbers into their service.

I believe Anveo started this before all the CC problems started and just recently Voip.ms did this via an email to their customers in the wake of the CC issues.

I see that Anveo is offering "free" porting if you agree to prepay for a year of service which is $24.00. This is good until the end of Nov. Not a bad deal.

Voip.ms is lowering their porting in fee to $10.00 which originally costs $25.00. This is only good until Nov.6. Also, not a bad deal.

I was wondering, since this seems like such a competitive field, can anyone match or beat Anveo's offer of free porting if you prepay for a year?

Maybe simply free porting, or something else to entice customers?

Or am I just being a wish pig??

rsriram22

join:2006-08-14
Lexington, KY
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Future Nine Corp..
·localphone.com
both are good providers. few personal notes:

1) with anveo, make sure they can port your number before you can start the actual process. (i did all the math, and figured i d go them and when i started LNP, they said they can't port my number); voip.ms has an online tool to check this, so the result will be instant.

2) Anveo does not send your CID to 911 when 911 calls are made(they send some hidden/temporary DID), whereas voip.ms does; but the bright side is anveo has the cheapest E911 cost per month in the market - 80cents/month. that's it

3) Anveo has pretty sophisticated and easy to use call handling workflow(s). i like it very much.

digressing slightly from subject, i see that you are from PA, why don't you give future9 a try - they have $10 porting fee for your state (and the porting process seems to be faster as well) -- here is the thread with more info- »[Future9] Free porting in NY, CA, PA, DE, MD, VA, and WV..

i just initiated my porting to future9 from CC -- F9 costs $5(2000 incoming) + $1(E911) per month; and they send your DID to 911.

good luck!

userofdsl

join:2000-07-31
Brighton, MA

Re: Anveo 911

said by rsriram22:

2) Anveo does not send your CID to 911 when 911 calls are made(they send some hidden/temporary DID

This is surprising and I am concerned.

What is your source of information?

Why would they do this?

Is there any way around this?

Does anyone else have information about this?


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
said by userofdsl:

said by rsriram22:

2) Anveo does not send your CID to 911 when 911 calls are made(they send some hidden/temporary DID

This is surprising and I am concerned.

No need for concern. When you call 911 a temporary phone number is sent to the PSAP. If there is a need for the PSAP to call you back the call will always go directly to your ATA/SIP phone no matter what settings you have.

The reason for this is to make sure that the return call never goes to voicemail or an IVR.
--
My VoIP News


crazyk4952
Premium
join:2002-02-04
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Vitelity VOIP
·Charter
·Callcentric
reply to userofdsl
said by userofdsl:

said by rsriram22:

2) Anveo does not send your CID to 911 when 911 calls are made(they send some hidden/temporary DID

This is surprising and I am concerned.

Why would they do this?

Does anyone else have information about this?

No need to be concerned. Callcentric actually does the same thing. The advantage of doing this is that you only have to pay one E911 fee per account instead of per DID. This can be a pretty big cost savings if you have multiple DIDs.

For example, I have 3 DIDs with voip.ms and E911 on one of the DIDs. E911 will not work if I have my outgoing caller ID set to the other two DIDs.

This also allows you to have E911 without purchasing a DID.

grand total

join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Anveo
reply to Arne Bolen
said by Arne Bolen:

he reason for this is to make sure that the return call never goes to voicemail or an IVR.

So, in fact this could be an advantage, especially for folks who maintain any kind of whitelist, or don't allow calls between certain hours etc.
--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms

1 edit
said by grand total:

said by Arne Bolen:

he reason for this is to make sure that the return call never goes to voicemail or an IVR.

So, in fact this could be an advantage, especially for folks who maintain any kind of whitelist, or don't allow calls between certain hours etc.

Yes that's one advantage especially for residential users.

For business users it's even more important. A company may use their main phone number for all outbound calls, so no phone has it's own phone number. The employees may be spread at different locations, maybe there are also employees working from home.

In such case the traditional way of sending the phone number could be disastrous if the PSAP needs to call back. Such call could end up at the wrong destination. Even worse, if it's outside of business hours the call may be answered by voicemail.

The Anveo E911 solves this problem by issuing a temporary phone number to each phone when 911 is dialed. This number is sent to the PSAP together with the name and address information for that phone. If the PSAP calls back on that temporary phone number it will always go directly to the phone bypassing any filters or settings.

This could save lives in some situations.
--
My VoIP News

wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Future Nine Corp..
reply to rsriram22

Re: Porting to Anveo or Voip.ms

rsriram22,

Thank you. I have checked with Anveo and they are able to port my number, Voip.ms as well.

The reason I didn't mention Future9 was simply because Anveo and Voip.ms seem to be the most mentioned on here.

I will check them out as well.

One thing I like about Anveo is that they have an option that notifies you if someone uses 911 or your sip registration goes down. I hope I am understanding that correctly.

That was one of my gripes with CC. When they were having their issues and we had no 911 service we were never notified.

I would like to be able to be notified when there is no 911 available. Besides Anveo, I'm not sure any other provider offers this.

Thanks again.


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
said by wideglide36:

I would like to be able to be notified when there is no 911 available. Besides Anveo, I'm not sure any other provider offers this.

Actually, E911 Alert Notification is used to send a voice alert to a phone, an SMS to a cellphone or an email when 911 is dialed from a phone. It's not about 911 being available or not.

This is useful for both business and residential users. Imagine you are out and someone at your home dials 911. With E911 Alert Notification you will get a text on your cellphone that 911 has been dialed. This might be very useful for many people.
--
My VoIP News

grand total

join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Anveo
said by Arne Bolen:

This is useful for both business and residential users. Imagine you are out and someone at your home dials 911. With E911 Alert Notification you will get a text on your cellphone that 911 has been dialed. This might be very useful for many people.

Yes, also for people with aged parents at another location for example.
--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
said by grand total:

said by Arne Bolen:

This is useful for both business and residential users. Imagine you are out and someone at your home dials 911. With E911 Alert Notification you will get a text on your cellphone that 911 has been dialed. This might be very useful for many people.

Yes, also for people with aged parents at another location for example.

Yes, that way you know something happened to your folks before the hospital calls you.

I believe I have seen a few other providers also using E911 Alert Notification but I could be wrong.
--
My VoIP News

wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
reply to Arne Bolen
Thanks Arne,

So, is there any voip provider that sends out some sort of notifications when 911 is not available? Do any other voip providers offer this 911 alert service that Anveo offers?

Thanks



Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
said by wideglide36:

So, is there any voip provider that sends out some sort of notifications when 911 is not available?

I don't think it's technically possible to determine if 911 is not available.

The closest thing is SIP Status Alert, a feature also offered by Anveo.

said by wideglide36:

Do any other voip providers offer this 911 alert service that Anveo offers?

I believe I have seen some other providers offering E911 Alert Notification but I can't remember which provider. But it's possible Anveo is the only provider offering E911 Alert Notification.
--
My VoIP News

wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA
Thanks again Arne.

Wouldn't SIP Status Alert be basically the same as notifying you when 911 was not available?

What exactly does this alert do?

Thanks


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
reply to wideglide36
said by wideglide36:

I was wondering, since this seems like such a competitive field, can anyone match or beat Anveo's offer of free porting if you prepay for a year?

Yes OnSIP can beat Anveo.

With OnSIP you can port in your phone number free of charge without prepaying for a year.

However, as a residential user you may find OnSIP to be more expensive than Anveo.
--
My VoIP News


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
reply to wideglide36
said by wideglide36:

Wouldn't SIP Status Alert be basically the same as notifying you when 911 was not available?

What exactly does this alert do?

With SIP Alerts you can be immediately notified when the SIP registration status for an account changes to OFFLINE so appropriate actions can be taken.

Please note that it's possible 911 is not available even if the SIP device is online.

But generally the SIP Status Alert feature is a good indication for the availability of 911.
--
My VoIP News

rsriram22

join:2006-08-14
Lexington, KY
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Future Nine Corp..
·localphone.com
reply to crazyk4952

Re: Anveo 911

said by crazyk4952:

said by userofdsl:

said by rsriram22:

2) Anveo does not send your CID to 911 when 911 calls are made(they send some hidden/temporary DID

This is surprising and I am concerned.

Why would they do this?

Does anyone else have information about this?

No need to be concerned. Callcentric actually does the same thing. The advantage of doing this is that you only have to pay one E911 fee per account instead of per DID. This can be a pretty big cost savings if you have multiple DIDs.

For example, I have 3 DIDs with voip.ms and E911 on one of the DIDs. E911 will not work if I have my outgoing caller ID set to the other two DIDs.

This also allows you to have E911 without purchasing a DID.

the concept of sending some random DID to 911 when a call is made makes perfect sense in pre-smart911.com world; with smart911.com, it is greatly advantageous if provider sends the caller ID of your choice (esp if the DID is *with* them) so that the 911 dispatch gets to see your smart911 info as well (besides E911 info)) -- this is more useful esp when there are elderly (or anyone) with known medical conditions so that the 911 dispatch knows who may have called them, what their pre-existing conditions may be, what medications they already are on etc etc..

anveo and CC do not send the caller ID of your choice and their concept of outbound caller id is slightly misleading as well (they have their reasons that for business users, its more important etc etc etc). one would think that the outbound callerid set in preferences (atleast in CC) is that one that gets sent out in *all* calls and that is not the case. It may just be a FAQ thing - they can add it in their FAQ saying this is not the case or, if there is only one DID, give the user to choose what caller id neds to be sent to 911 (provided that DID IS with them)

while voip.ms *does* have that flexibility of setting of the DIDs that you want sent to 911...

few others that do send out the DID of your choice (given that your DID is with them) - voip.ms,future9,flowroute

again, this is not just singling out CC/anveo, but thats what i found out in my little research.. there may be other providers who do not send out the CID *you think* is going out..


crazyk4952
Premium
join:2002-02-04
united state
kudos:1
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Vitelity VOIP
·Charter
·Callcentric
said by rsriram22:

the concept of sending some random DID to 911 when a call is made makes perfect sense in pre-smart911.com world; with smart911.com, it is greatly advantageous if provider sends the caller ID of your choice (esp if the DID is *with* them) so that the 911 dispatch gets to see your smart911 info as well (besides E911 info)) -- this is more useful esp when there are elderly (or anyone) with known medical conditions so that the 911 dispatch knows who may have called them, what their pre-existing conditions may be, what medications they already are on etc etc..

This sounds interesting, but does not seem to be widely adopted (yet?). I tried several zip codes from major metro areas and none of them supported smart911.

userofdsl

join:2000-07-31
Brighton, MA
reply to rsriram22
I can see the advantage of sending out something other than the usual caller ID, but rather a new one that always reaches the SIP device.

For example, in a medical emergency at 11 PM, with Anveo call flow or Callcentric call treatments set to direct all calls after 10 PM to voicemail, if the dispatcher has to call back, they will get through.

I was concerned that a new CID # might confuse responders, and was wondering whether they have a database of numbers vs addresses/names. I'm still not clear on this.

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8

1 recommendation

reply to crazyk4952
said by crazyk4952:

No need to be concerned. Callcentric actually does the same thing. The advantage of doing this is that you only have to pay one E911 fee per account instead of per DID. This can be a pretty big cost savings if you have multiple DIDs.

A little insider information here: E911 providers bill VOIP providers based on the number of CIDs configured by those VOIP providers. By dynamically creating and assigning a special CID to your account when E911 is dialed a VOIP provider can avoid paying the E911 provider the service fees for your account until you actually dial 911. Aside from cheating their E911 provider, a provider doing this adds an extra risk because the temporary DID needs to first provision to the E911 provider's database in real time while you wait on the line, and only then they can complete the 911 call. If the E911 provider's website is down or another error occurs your 911 call will fail.

I am not saying this is what CallCentric and Anveo are doing - they may not be. An indication is what happens when you setup your E911 on the provider's website - if it gives you your correct geo location and confirms the address has been submitted correctly you're probably fine. If it doesn't do that then your address is not in the E911 database and the provider is using cheap tricks which may add an extra point of failure in a time of emergency.

Another indication is if the provider dynamically sets up a temporary CID when you call E911 (as opposed to keeping a dedicated permanent one in their database for you) - setting up a temporary CID essentially means they have to first dynamically provision this DID to the E911 provider via their website's API, and only when and if this is successful your 911 call will complete. Not something I'd want to rely on in time of need.

Again- not knocking CC or Anveo - I don't know their back end processes, but users should definitely avoid any provider that dynamically creates a database entry with the E911 provider when they place a 911 call because 1. It's dishonest, and 2. It's an extra potential point of failure.


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
reply to userofdsl
said by userofdsl:

I was concerned that a new CID # might confuse responders, and was wondering whether they have a database of numbers vs addresses/names. I'm still not clear on this.

When you call 911 using voip your name and address information is sent automatically from the voip provider to the PSAP. That way the PSAP always gets the most recent information you have provided to your voip provider.

This of course only applies to providers using E911, it won't work with Skype and a few others not offering E911.
--
My VoIP News

nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
said by Arne Bolen:

When you call 911 using voip your name and address information is sent automatically from the voip provider to the PSAP.

To be more accurate: when you setup E911 the provider will make a call to the E911 provider's website/API which creates a database entry in the E911 provider's database with your number, name, address, and geo location. When you make a 911 call all the VOIP provider sends is just your Caller ID. The E911 provider then looks up your CID in their database and matches it to the entry previously entered there during the setup process, and sends this info the PSAP.

rsriram22

join:2006-08-14
Lexington, KY
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Future Nine Corp..
·localphone.com
reply to userofdsl
said by userofdsl:

I can see the advantage of sending out something other than the usual caller ID, but rather a new one that always reaches the SIP device.

For example, in a medical emergency at 11 PM, with Anveo call flow or Callcentric call treatments set to direct all calls after 10 PM to voicemail, if the dispatcher has to call back, they will get through.

I was concerned that a new CID # might confuse responders, and was wondering whether they have a database of numbers vs addresses/names. I'm still not clear on this.

with all these call routes/call handling techniques that providers offer, i wonder how difficult it would be to say, disable a call going to VM and instead send it out to ATA device directly when a call goes from one of their DIDs. maybe this is very complex, i don't know..

rsriram22

join:2006-08-14
Lexington, KY
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Future Nine Corp..
·localphone.com
reply to nitzan
wow, just wow.. that's some great insight into the process vs the generic marketing reasons that providers give end customers as to the 'advantages' of having hidden DID being able to reach the user esp for business offices with large # of DIDs etc etc ...

if this is what really is happening (one fee/account thing), it makes me think that the VOIP providers(not their E911 providers) are getting more than 0cents out of monthly fee..

said by nitzan:

said by crazyk4952:

No need to be concerned. Callcentric actually does the same thing. The advantage of doing this is that you only have to pay one E911 fee per account instead of per DID. This can be a pretty big cost savings if you have multiple DIDs.

A little insider information here: E911 providers bill VOIP providers based on the number of CIDs configured by those VOIP providers. By dynamically creating and assigning a special CID to your account when E911 is dialed a VOIP provider can avoid paying the E911 provider the service fees for your account until you actually dial 911. Aside from cheating their E911 provider, a provider doing this adds an extra risk because the temporary DID needs to first provision to the E911 provider's database in real time while you wait on the line, and only then they can complete the 911 call. If the E911 provider's website is down or another error occurs your 911 call will fail.

I am not saying this is what CallCentric and Anveo are doing - they may not be. An indication is what happens when you setup your E911 on the provider's website - if it gives you your correct geo location and confirms the address has been submitted correctly you're probably fine. If it doesn't do that then your address is not in the E911 database and the provider is using cheap tricks which may add an extra point of failure in a time of emergency.

Another indication is if the provider dynamically sets up a temporary CID when you call E911 (as opposed to keeping a dedicated permanent one in their database for you) - setting up a temporary CID essentially means they have to first dynamically provision this DID to the E911 provider via their website's API, and only when and if this is successful your 911 call will complete. Not something I'd want to rely on in time of need.

Again- not knocking CC or Anveo - I don't know their back end processes, but users should definitely avoid any provider that dynamically creates a database entry with the E911 provider when they place a 911 call because 1. It's dishonest, and 2. It's an extra potential point of failure.


PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to rsriram22
said by rsriram22:

the concept of sending some random DID to 911 when a call is made makes perfect sense in pre-smart911.com world; with smart911.com, it is greatly advantageous if provider sends the caller ID of your choice (esp if the DID is *with* them) so that the 911 dispatch gets to see your smart911 info as well (besides E911 info))

As a customer of Smart911, it would be interesting for you to raise this issue with them. I'd be curious if they know about it and/or have any comments.

On a broader note, I know that the Smart911 service is available in your area, but my hunch is that this is not going to be a big commercial success.

Like the Segway (tm) it will remain a niche market.


Arne Bolen
Happy Anveo customer
Premium
join:2009-06-21
Cyberspace
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Anveo
·voip.ms
reply to rsriram22
said by rsriram22:

with all these call routes/call handling techniques that providers offer, i wonder how difficult it would be to say, disable a call going to VM and instead send it out to ATA device directly when a call goes from one of their DIDs. maybe this is very complex, i don't know..

Let's say a company has 100 phones in different places including employees homes. The main phone number of the company is used as Caller ID number when a call is made from one of the phones. None of the phones have their own 10 digit phone number.

How would you route a call from the PSAP to the phone where the 911 call came from?

Also, a police officer may call from his/her cellphone. There is no way for the voip provider to know that this call should be routed differently than other calls to the company.

The traditional way of having the E911 tied to your phone number may work fine for a residential customer, but is useless for most companies.
--
My VoIP News

anveo
Premium
join:2010-02-08
kudos:3
reply to userofdsl
said by userofdsl:

I can see the advantage of sending out something other than the usual caller ID, but rather a new one that always reaches the SIP device.

For example, in a medical emergency at 11 PM, with Anveo call flow or Callcentric call treatments set to direct all calls after 10 PM to voicemail, if the dispatcher has to call back, they will get through.

This is exactly the reason (legal liability) why we do this. Most business users and even some residential users have Call Flows configured to route calls based on the time ('Business Hours' Call Flow item) or other advanced call handling options and we have to make sure that callbacks from 911 emergency personnel will ALWAYS ring back SIP device which initiated 911 call.

EDIT: Just noticed another great example from Arne right above this post.

grand total

join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Anveo
reply to nitzan
What you write here makes sense and unfortunately for me it raises concerns. I have often wondered how Anveo manages to charge only 80 cents per month for a service that other providers charge $1.50 per month for and claim it's not a profit maker.
--
DPC3825 (bridged mode) - WRT610N + Tomato - Panasonic KX-TGP500 - Asterisk 1.8.11.0 with Asterisk GUI on Virtual Server
Anveo - Voxbeam - Numbergroup - Callcentric - VoIP.MS - Localphone - UKDDI

rsriram22

join:2006-08-14
Lexington, KY
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Future Nine Corp..
·localphone.com
reply to PX Eliezer70
i already spoke with two VOIP providers who do the 'masking' stuff -

1) anveo replied back saying that their's is a hidden ID and they can do nothing about it
2) CC did give me what that temporary # is for my account (or DID?) but would not do anything more than that.

smart911 initiative may not take off, but i really hope it takes off as that initiative is run off of the existing E911 fee.. but yeah, who knows...

from legality standpoint, providers are covered i think, and as i understand it, E911 requires 'a' callback number and an address to be sent.

said by PX Eliezer70:

As a customer of Smart911, it would be interesting for you to raise this issue with them. I'd be curious if they know about it and/or have any comments.

On a broader note, I know that the Smart911 service is available in your area, but my hunch is that this is not going to be a big commercial success.

Like the Segway (tm) it will remain a niche market.


userofdsl

join:2000-07-31
Brighton, MA
reply to anveo
Anveo, thanks for responding.

Can you address the issue Nitzan raised of a possible slowdown or additional point of failure resulting from having to place a new record in the 911 provider's database before putting through the call?