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Metatron2008
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join:2008-09-02
united state

1 recommendation

reply to Count Zero

Re: Apple now has a Lightning to Micro USB Cable

said by Count Zero:

Dude, they're not out to listen to logic. They're just upset that Apple does its own thing. Nano USB has the advantage of ubiquity, but it is a limited standards. Lightning is a future proof, highly capable, and very convenient interface – but unless android has it, they'll always find something to bitch about, even if it Apple were only charging $2...

The thing about micro usb is that it is a standard. Which means groups of people work on it, and compete to drive down prices.

So what happens when a new standard of micro usb comes out that supports more wattage and faster speeds? What will you guys do to defend your overpriced buying when that happens?


Coma
Thanks Steve
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join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand
said by Metatron2008:

What will you guys do to defend your overpriced buying when that happens?


Personally, I'll just sell a few shares of AAPL to maintain my fix.



--
November is National Epilepsy Month


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
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join:2007-01-18
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reply to Metatron2008
Well since its not likely to be compatible with the old micro USB stuff I will just laugh. How long has microusb been a cell phone standard? How long will it be? I'll wager Lightning way outlasts it in duration and capability and ultimately isn't as uneconomical as you pretend it is.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
usb 3 is backwards compatible with usb 2. One of the advantages of a standard.


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
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1 edit
USB 3 and 2 are different standards you understand?

From a USB cable website: "The USB 3.0 Micro B connector is found on USB 3.0 devices. This connector is designed to carry data and power in USB SuperSpeed applications. . Cables with this connector are not backwards compatible with USB 2.0 or USB 1.1 devices."

»www.cablestogo.com/resources/usb.asp


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
Nice selective linking...

The usb a-type is backwards compatible with past uab connections. The connector is for usb 3 but any past connector will work with usb 3 a type.

With so many connection a new standard for usb micro would be backwards compatible.


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
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Yes but the B side is required for the higher power and higher speeds.

AND USB 3.0 specification is limited to 4.5 W right now - though in the future it may go higher. We already know lightning can carry 12 W and Apple hasn't publicly stated its max.


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
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join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to Metatron2008
By your logic lighting's USB cable has the same USB A connector as the old 30 pin..

And I guess you'll have to buy a bunch of extra cables when microusb 3.0 hits phones to get its advantages... Doesn't sound much more economical.


Metatron2008
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join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to Count Zero
uh, no, the a-type is capable of the usb 3 speeds :\


Metatron2008
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join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to Count Zero
said by Count Zero:

By your logic lighting's USB cable has the same USB A connector as the old 30 pin..

And I guess you'll have to buy a bunch of extra cables when microusb 3.0 hits phones to get its advantages... Doesn't sound much more economical.

Well the point of it being a standard is if you bought the new cables a company could not price gouge.

Plus older connections SHOULD be backwards compatible. I supoose they could go with a different connection, but considering how many devices use the current, it would seem like suicide.


Metatron2008
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join:2008-09-02
united state
When I got my 6 monitor eyefinity setup, I got a machine with usb 3 a type. Can power external ssds at near sata 2 speeds (if they use usb 3), and are backwards compatible with all other usb devices (Although I notice a few issues, such as not being able to access bios if you hook up a keyboard to a usb 3 connection, the usb 3 devices only kick on when windows starts).

You say it's not economical, but all I have to get is a usb 3 cord IF a new device doesn't come with one. If they had an apple like system I'd have to replace cables for EVERY USB DEVICE I OWN, OR GET AN ADAPTOR. At $30 a pop.


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
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reply to Metatron2008
USB cables only drive USB devices at USB 2 speeds and at USB 2 power so it's not practical for all devices. It also won't charge these newer tablets (or oversized phones) very quickly so that's a negative.


Count Zero
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reply to Metatron2008
Btw every new apple iPhone and iPad and iPod that uses lightning comes with a lightning USB cable...

sk1939
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reply to Count Zero
said by Count Zero:

USB cables only drive USB devices at USB 2 speeds and at USB 2 power so it's not practical for all devices. It also won't charge these newer tablets (or oversized phones) very quickly so that's a negative.

So you have to wait 10 more minutes to use your device, patience is a virtue.


Count Zero
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10 minutes? Hardly. From a full discharged tablet probably several additional hours.

sk1939
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reply to Count Zero
said by Count Zero:

Well since its not likely to be compatible with the old micro USB stuff I will just laugh. How long has microusb been a cell phone standard?

Since 2007, and micro USB 3.0 uses the same connector plus a supplemental portion for the extra data lines.

sk1939
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reply to Count Zero
said by Count Zero:

10 minutes? Hardly. From a full discharged tablet probably several additional hours.

Given that the Apple charger uses a USB port to charge I have to say it has more to do with the device and charger than the connection standard.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to Count Zero
said by Count Zero:

Btw every new apple iPhone and iPad and iPod that uses lightning comes with a lightning USB cable...

The problem comes in all the accessories for apple products. One of the main reasons I'm gonna get an iPad 3 if they ever have a liquidation sale..


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
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reply to sk1939
A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and 150 mA in USB 3.0. A device may draw a maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) from a port in USB 2.0; 6 (900 mA) in USB 3.0.


Count Zero
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reply to sk1939
In case you're unaware these standards define maximum power as well.

sk1939
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said by Count Zero:

In case you're unaware these standards define maximum power as well.

Yes and no, Smart USB chargers can output 5V 2.1A. The standard applies more to PC connections rather than charging solutions.


Count Zero
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I think it applies to any application with data throughput. PCs and functional accessories.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
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with all this talk of USB-a, USB-b, this power, that power, backwards compatible, not backwards compatible...some "standard".

Lightning, it just works.

sk1939
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said by dirtyjeffer:

with all this talk of USB-a, USB-b, this power, that power, backwards compatible, not backwards compatible...some "standard".

Lightning, it just works.

That's the benefit when you have iron control over your ecosystem and only three devices to support, not hundreds (the downside).


dirtyjeffer
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nothing wrong with control...it means you don't end up with varying levels of quality items out there...some good stuff, likely lots of crap...when there is a standard that must be adhered to, it levels the playing field...if i were Apple, and i had a very large brand to protect, i would want to ensure some $2 crappy cable didn't ruin one of my customer's purchases.

you have to remember, Apple does things differently...they don't just sell you a device, they sell you an experience...any of those other devices, you simply buy it, and figure it out on your own...with an Apple product, you can go to an Apple store, sit in on a seminar to learn how to use it, get some one-on-one time with a "Genius" to provide some custom assistance focused on what you need...nobody else (currently) does that...you give them your money, and the transaction is done...it is this "extra" that has helped Apple separate itself as "just another" tablet or smartphone manufacturer.

some people are willing to pay a little more that, some aren't...their products are well made, they work great and you can get that "little extra" if you need it...sure it costs a bit more, but it was never Apple's intent to win a race to the bottom.
--
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Nezmo
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said by dirtyjeffer:

...

you have to remember, Apple does things differently...they don't just sell you a device, they sell you an experience...any of those other devices, you simply buy it, and figure it out on your own...with an Apple product, you can go to an Apple store, sit in on a seminar to learn how to use it, get some one-on-one time with a "Genius" to provide some custom assistance focused on what you need...nobody else (currently) does that...you give them your money, and the transaction is done...it is this "extra" that has helped Apple separate itself as "just another" tablet or smartphone manufacturer.

...

How romantic and cute. I like my iPhone and iPad but I can't get emotionally attached to them as many do. Experience? It's an electronic device . I concede. I don't think I'm on the same plane as those that are so emotionally tied to Apple and thus I will likely never understand and any further discussion from me is probably worthless.

It was interesting earlier that because I was saying something negative about Apple I was branded an Android fan. That says it all really.
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dirtyjeffer
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said by Nezmo:

How romantic and cute. I like my iPhone and iPad but I can't get emotionally attached to them as many do. Experience? It's an electronic device .

you are not understand my point...i'm not talking about romance or emotional attachment to a brand...i am talking about "Customer Experience"...while plenty of people (many of whom i work with) are fine to grab an android device, sideload all kinds of different OSs and do all kinds of funky things with them, they are the exception, not the norm...many people just want it to work and do what the bought it for (phone, email, messaging, web, apps)...in that respect every device works quite well, but Apple does have that extra service available, should that be of interest to you.

case in point, several people i work with drive Lexus vehicles...are the Lexus vehicles really that much better than their Toyota (or other brand) equivalents?...debatable, but probably not...however, they drop their vehicles off for service/maintenance, get a Lexus loaner for the day and continue on business as usual, rather than get dropped off in a courtesy vehicle and be without wheels for the day...the Lexus dealership has a much higher level of service, and really, isn't that much more money to get your work done at...they don't do $9.99 Oil Changes, or $79 brake jobs...they do have competitive prices on what they do, but their niche is service, so for a little more than what most places charge, you get a much higher level of service...that is the Customer Experience, and many companies are following that business model, rather than a race to the bottom.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

sk1939
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Service has it's time and place, but again many people are not willing to pay the premium involved for such a thing, and only a handful who do utilize said service.

Your quote is a misquote by the way, there is no evidence that Orwell actually said it. He has similar thoughts in his writings on nationalism and Rudyard Kipling, but no direct quotes. The closest is Churchill saying, "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."


dirtyjeffer
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said by sk1939:

Service has it's time and place, but again many people are not willing to pay the premium involved for such a thing, and only a handful who do utilize said service.

i would tend to disagree, considering the number of products Apple sells...as well, the few times i have been to their store, it is always jam packed with people getting instructions on things or attending one of their seminars (which they do several a day on).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

sk1939
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said by dirtyjeffer:

said by sk1939:

Service has it's time and place, but again many people are not willing to pay the premium involved for such a thing, and only a handful who do utilize said service.

i would tend to disagree, considering the number of products Apple sells...as well, the few times i have been to their store, it is always jam packed with people getting instructions on things or attending one of their seminars (which they do several a day on).

Must be a locale thing, down here its mostly window shoppers and people purchasing. Seminars are usually attended by older people who drive their Prii to get there.