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dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to donoreo

Re: where do I get my winter tired put on?

said by donoreo:

They were not the cheapest when I got mine last year, the Toyota dealer was.

for the same tire?

that would be very rare...at most, Costco's markup is 15%, often half to a third of what most retailers would be...i've priced out the last 4 sets of tires i have purchased and Costco was less than everywhere else around here (often by a couple hundred dollars) and even less than most US places, because of the cost to ship them here.

of course, added bonus' include road hazard warranty and free re/re for Costco purchased tires, which can add to further savings ongoing...then of course, the rebates that are often available nationally (regardless of where you buy them), are given instantly, whereas everyone else does the "mail-in rebate", which is better since you get the savings right away, plus tax (which you won't get with a mail in rebate).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
said by dirtyjeffer:

said by donoreo:

They were not the cheapest when I got mine last year, the Toyota dealer was.

for the same tire?

that would be very rare...at most, Costco's markup is 15%, often half to a third of what most retailers would be...i've priced out the last 4 sets of tires i have purchased and Costco was less than everywhere else around here (often by a couple hundred dollars) and even less than most US places, because of the cost to ship them here.

of course, added bonus' include road hazard warranty and free re/re for Costco purchased tires, which can add to further savings ongoing...then of course, the rebates that are often available nationally (regardless of where you buy them), are given instantly, whereas everyone else does the "mail-in rebate", which is better since you get the savings right away, plus tax (which you won't get with a mail in rebate).

Same tire. Dealer also stored my summer wheels for "free". My wife did the negotiating and was going back and forth between Green + Ross and dealer mostly, both beat Costco.
--
The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
interestingly enough, another person i know just bought a set of tires through Green and Ross and was amazed at the great price she got...the tires were about $190/each at Costco, and she got them for $140/each...her friend actually works for Michelin Canada and she said it was likely the tires came over from the USA (weren't purchased from Michelin Canada)...she said she has seen more and more of that lately...i don't know if that matters or not (in terms of warranty, etc).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to Devanchya
On rims? Do them yourself. When I had the rims, I did them myself, put chocks behind the wheels, as my driveway is sloped, and going slowly, and safely, I was done in 45 mins using the tools in the trunk.
--
~ Project Hope ~


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
said by EUS:

On rims? Do them yourself. When I had the rims, I did them myself, put chocks behind the wheels, as my driveway is sloped, and going slowly, and safely, I was done in 45 mins using the tools in the trunk.

I would do this too, but my driveway is not good enough and I have no space.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
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·Bell Sympatico
reply to Devanchya
The other thing about Costco tires is they are OEM, not replacement, tires (I've heard this from several different sources and have no reason to doubt any of them). There's a significant difference between the two, and my dealer admitted that the replacement tires they were going to sell me to replace the originals on my car were identical brand, model and size but a better product than the ones that are on cars when they are sold.

It's not a deal-breaker for most, but it is something to keep in mind when buying tires.
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
said by Kardinal:

The other thing about Costco tires is they are OEM, not replacement, tires (I've heard this from several different sources and have no reason to doubt any of them). There's a significant difference between the two, and my dealer admitted that the replacement tires they were going to sell me to replace the originals on my car were identical brand, model and size but a better product than the ones that are on cars when they are sold.

It's not a deal-breaker for most, but it is something to keep in mind when buying tires.

Oh no, you have spoken foul of the great and might Costco.
--
The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to fkharper
said by fkharper :

said by peterboro:

If your tires are on rims then go to Devanchya Auto Express located in your driveway.

Not good advice if you don't know what u doing. Very easy to get hurt or even worst get someone else hurt.
Any local repair shop should be able to do it for u.

serious? Mounting wheels on a car is like day 1 in any apprenticeship course.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

Any garage or tire store like Green + Ross or Canadian Tire. A dealer will also do it. Expect to pay $30-$40. Some may do it for free to get you in the door. Often they will be rebalanced, as well.

Active Green + Ross, Canadian Tire and the dealers have some of the highest prices going. Try and find a good local garage if car repair isn't your thing.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Kardinal
i'm not so sure about that...winter tires are a bad example, as no car comes with winter tires installed from the factory, but if you car has Hankook Optimo 4S tires on it from the factory, and you replace it with a set of Hankook Optimo 4S tires from the dealer (or wherever), i am pretty sure it is the same tire.

of course, what might be available is a Hankook (example) Excel 4Ti, which may be a little more money, but a much better tire (or a Michelin, Bridgestone, whatever). OEM tires are tires chosen for specific requirements spec'd by the manufacturer, including price.

often, an "OE" replacement may only be related to the "size" of the tire...as an example, my Rio5 has 205/45/17 tires on it...Michelin does not make a standard (non-winter) tire in that size...so, if i want to put a Michelin tire on my car, and maintain my 17" rims, i will need to change the profile of the tire (example, 215/45/17)...or, i could buy new rims if i wanted something like a 205/55/16, which is what i purchased for snow tires, as i didn't like the choices available in the OEM size (limited selection).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
reply to donoreo
said by donoreo:

Oh no, you have spoken foul of the great and might Costco.

BRING IT! I've been a member since 1992, so I've spent lots of money there over the years and know there are bargains to be found there and somethings to be evaluated more carefully before a purchase is made. There's nothing wrong with OEM tires, but they aren't the same rubber compound as what you'll find elsewhere with the same name on it. The consumer has the final say as to where their money is spent, and whether or not saving $20/tire as opposed to buying them elsewhere is worth buying a lower quality version of the same tire or not.
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

The other thing about Costco tires is they are OEM, not replacement, tires (I've heard this from several different sources and have no reason to doubt any of them). There's a significant difference between the two, and my dealer admitted that the replacement tires they were going to sell me to replace the originals on my car were identical brand, model and size but a better product than the ones that are on cars when they are sold.

It's not a deal-breaker for most, but it is something to keep in mind when buying tires.

i did some further googling and from what i can see, this line is bullshit (as i suspected)...for example, if you buy a set of Michelin Defender tires, they are identical regardless of where you buy them from (Green and Ross, Wal-Mart, Costco, Canadian Tire, Pistol Pete's Performance Tires)...if it has the same name (Defender, Primacy, etc), it is the same tire...of course, some companies do make "house brand" tires, so in that case, yes, they can be different, but they will have a special name on them...for example, Wal-Mart may sell a tire called a UltraTour, which may look similar to a Defender, but perhaps is $30 less and may offer a slightly less wear rating, or perhaps it is $20 more and has a better wear rating...keep in mind, you are only likely to find "house brand" tires at LARGE retailers as the costs to develop and private label your own tire would require significantly large purchases (quantities).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
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·Bell Sympatico
said by dirtyjeffer:

i did some further googling and from what i can see, this line is bullshit (as i suspected)..

Easy there fella. You're reading a bias in that isn't there, and taking a turn I didn't say (which I hope is just a misunderstanding, and not a tangent to try and deflect away from the point I'm making to satisfy your own stance). I'm not comparing Michelin Defender vs Brand X house tire. It's a difference between the Goodyear Eagle RS-As that my car came with and the Eagle RS-As that I would buy at a tire place to replace them. Same name, same tread pattern, but not the same tire. OEM and replacement tires are NOT the same thing most of the time, especially on cars that aren't uber expensive. In fact, they are quite different in terms of wear quality, length of life, and grip due to different rubber compounds etc.

I'm not slamming Costco, I'm pointing out a possible reason why their tires are less expensive than other places selling at tire with the same name. My research is based on talking with people who work at dealers, aftermarket mod shops, tire retailers and the aforementioned former Costco worker (all of whom are known to me personally, not people I'm talking to across a counter and I've never met before). This isn't a 10 minute Internet search, it's numerous conversations over time with people in the industry that neither you nor I work in.

You can call it bullshit if you like....that's your affair.
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
i don't know about Goodyear, but i am pretty sure all major brands are the same...in the case of Michelin, if it is a Michelin Defender Tire, it is a Michelin Defender tire, regardless of where you purchase it...there are OEM tires that are only available to the manufacturer (replacements through the dealer network), but they aren't available for sale through regular retail distribution networks, and would have their own name on them (they wouldn't have the same name)...this has been confirmed from information directly from Michelin...again, possibly Goodyear is different, but i highly doubt it.

come to think of it, i know someone at the plant...i will send them an email and let you know what i find out.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by dirtyjeffer:

i did some further googling and from what i can see, this line is bullshit (as i suspected)..

Easy there fella. You're reading a bias in that isn't there,... You can call it bullshit if you like....that's your affair.

I'll have to concur with DJ. I've never heard of this as well.


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
said by peterboro:

said by Kardinal:

said by dirtyjeffer:

i did some further googling and from what i can see, this line is bullshit (as i suspected)..

Easy there fella. You're reading a bias in that isn't there,... You can call it bullshit if you like....that's your affair.

I'll have to concur with DJ. I've never heard of this as well.

use of the term OEM may refer to same brand/model /size as comes from the factory. All tires should carry a UTQGS rating that shows wear and temperature range. As long as you refer to those ratings, you will know what you are fitting


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by Kardinal:

said by dirtyjeffer:

i did some further googling and from what i can see, this line is bullshit (as i suspected)..

Easy there fella. You're reading a bias in that isn't there,... You can call it bullshit if you like....that's your affair.

I'll have to concur with DJ. I've never heard of this as well.

I think it's his use of the label "OEM" which might be throwing us off since it's not a term used in that industry.

Whether he intended it or not, the way he conveyed it made it seems like he's alleging these tire installers are selling 'forged' tires, selling non-Michelin tires as Michelin and basically ripping people off.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
said by urbanriot:

I think it's his use of the label "OEM" which might be throwing us off since it's not a term used in that industry.

Whether he intended it or not, the way he conveyed it made it seems like he's alleging these tire installers are selling 'forged' tires, selling non-Michelin tires as Michelin and basically ripping people off.

FFS.....again, no I'm saying no such thing.

(note: I do understand OEM = original equipment from manufacturer ie/ the tires the car came with)

Tire manufacturers make more than one version of a given model, with different compounds which result in different wear / mileage / handling characteristics. Goodyear / Michelin / Firestone / whatever, and build a version specifically for new cars that the manufacturers use. The version that is sold "after market" is a different one with, generally speaking, a higher quality compound which results in higher wear rankings and a longer lasting tire with as good or better driving characteristics. It also means the ones made for the car manufacturers can be made less expensively, which saves the car company money in the build process.

I used Goodyear RS-As as an example because that's what my car came with, not because it's only Goodyear that does this and "Michelin is Michelin is Michelin no matter where it comes from". This isn't about trying to claim tires are 'forged', or fakes, or anything of the sort. I thought the explanation was pretty straight-forward, but it seems that all sorts of things are being read into it so I'll try and summarize it simply:

1) Tire manufacturers build tires for car companies to use on new cars
2) These tires are often made using different compounds from those used for the exact same tire (brand/name/size) that is sold on the regular market
3) These differences in compounds can affect performance and wear
4) The differences in compounds can also affect price
5) Through conversations with people in the automotive industry, I've found Costco sells tires that can be the car company 'level' of tire rather than the common market one, which may account for the difference in price (as well as their lower markup, as DJ asserted upthread).

Izzat clearer now?
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to urbanriot
no, what is implied is (in this case) a Goodyear Eagle RS-A tire available from from Honda or Active Green and Ross (examples) and the Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires available from Costco (or even Wal-Mart, if they sell it) are different. In the case of Michelin, there is no such thing. The tires of the same name are identical regardless of where you buy them. There is no "premium" version of the same name sold through Active Green and Ross and the ones sold at Costco or Wal-Mart are inferior. I deal with all the major tire companies, so I sent an email to one of my contacts at Goodyear. I'm thinking about sending one to Bridgestone as well, but that might be rather redundant.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

Izzat clearer now?

i interpreted exactly what you mentioned, and i don't think that is correct.

i will confirm when i get a reply about the Goodyear ones, but a Michelin tire with whatever name is on it (Primacy, Alpin, Defender, etc) is exactly the same regardless of where it comes from...it is possible there could be a "manufacturer exclusive", but they don't make different versions of their tires with the same name...so, if your car came with Michelin Defenders, the Defenders purchased from the dealership, Costco, Wal-Mart or OK Tire are all identical...as i said before, it is possible your Honda car may come with (example) a set of Michelin TourForce tires, which are only available through the dealer as they are the models the manufacturer put on (the tires made specifically for that car based on Honda's requirements)...but if Michelin TourForce tires were purchased anywhere else, they too would be identical...there is no "low quality Defender" tires or "premium quality Defender" tires...i am pretty sure companies like Bridgestone and Goodyear are the same.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

Tire manufacturers make more than one version of a given model, with different compounds which result in different wear / mileage / handling characteristics. Goodyear / Michelin / Firestone / whatever, and build a version specifically for new cars that the manufacturers use.

Considering they make thousands of tires and deal with numerous auto manufacturers that doesn't sound like a realistic scenario from an economic standpoint for manufactures to have different tires to save a few bucks per tire.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

Izzat clearer now?

Yes, it seemed too obvious that you'd be pointing out what's too obvious. "Tire Model 1234 from Company ABC is not the same as Tire Model 564 from Company ABC or Model 239845 from Company XYZ"

... except you seem to trying to provide a 'helpful tip' when there isn't one to provide. Costco's Michelin - Energy 132 MXV4 S8 will be the same as everyone else's Michelin - Energy 32 MXV4 S8. It obviously won't be the same as Michelin - Pilot MXM4.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
said by urbanriot:

... except you seem to trying to provide a 'helpful tip' when there isn't one to provide. Costco's Michelin - Energy 132 MXV4 S8 will be the same as everyone else's Michelin - Energy 32 MXV4 S8. It obviously won't be the same as Michelin - Pilot MXM4.

No, I'm actually comparing a MXV4-S8 sold on a new car to one that is sold by a tire company as a replacement tire and saying they likely *won't* be the same. They'll have the same pattern, but will be made with a different rubber compound with a different wear rating (as noted upthread by koira See Profile). If the one from a dealer is rated for 40k km, while the aftermarket one is 75k km, is that the same tire? The ones on new cars are often optimized for fuel economy to help the car reach the EPA ratings in real world conditions, but that can be at the expense of handling characteristics or tread life because it's what the manufacturer's want (ie/ "the new car gets great gas mileage!" not "my car's tires are three years old have 70k km on them, and they're still good").

I was trying to provide information I've acquired through conversations with people who work in the industry that the tires with the same name can be and are often different depending on if they are for use on new car delivery or aftermarket retail, and a social forum of non-industry people have chosen not to believe me based on their own opinions on the subject. I'm fine with that.
--
"Pro amicis mortui amicis vivimus" (We live in the hearts of friends for whom we died)
the inscription on the Memorial in the Canadian War Cemetery at Groesbeek, the Netherlands


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
that isn't the case, at least with the Michelins...a Michelin MXV4-S8 is the same, whether it came on your car when it was new from the factory, or if you bought replacements from Active Green and Ross, OK Tire, Wal-Mart or Costco (or wherever you bought them)...Michelin does not make different versions of the same tires...period...as i said, i can't speak for every brand, but i am pretty sure what you are saying is not likely for the major brands.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

I was trying to provide information I've acquired through conversations with people who work in the industry that the tires with the same name can be and are often different depending on if they are for use on new car delivery or aftermarket retail, and a social forum of non-industry people have chosen not to believe me based on their own opinions on the subject. I'm fine with that.

I've asked people that work in the industry about what you've brought up here and the answer, coupled with a chuckle, was "that's a load of horse shit". I reiterated my question and the response was "where the fuck do you think we all get our tires from?"

You bring up a good point about non-industry people on social forums, so I'll defer to those I know that work in the industry and all around common sense.


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by urbanriot:

... except you seem to trying to provide a 'helpful tip' when there isn't one to provide. Costco's Michelin - Energy 132 MXV4 S8 will be the same as everyone else's Michelin - Energy 32 MXV4 S8. It obviously won't be the same as Michelin - Pilot MXM4.

No, I'm actually comparing a MXV4-S8 sold on a new car to one that is sold by a tire company as a replacement tire and saying they likely *won't* be the same. They'll have the same pattern, but will be made with a different rubber compound with a different wear rating (as noted upthread by koira See Profile). If the one from a dealer is rated for 40k km, while the aftermarket one is 75k km, is that the same tire? The ones on new cars are often optimized for fuel economy to help the car reach the EPA ratings in real world conditions, but that can be at the expense of handling characteristics or tread life because it's what the manufacturer's want (ie/ "the new car gets great gas mileage!" not "my car's tires are three years old have 70k km on them, and they're still good").

I was trying to provide information I've acquired through conversations with people who work in the industry that the tires with the same name can be and are often different depending on if they are for use on new car delivery or aftermarket retail, and a social forum of non-industry people have chosen not to believe me based on their own opinions on the subject. I'm fine with that.

OK coincidentally I have a set of MXV4 S8 on our Jetta
These were what came on the car when new, but I told them it had to be these tires when I bought it. other wise they could keep the car

sidewall says:
treadwear rating is 440
temperature A
traction A

What do yours say ?

decx
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Vancouver, BC
reply to Devanchya
I think where this confusion comes from is that some manufacturers sell a number of sub-models under a single model nameplate. For example uninformed consumers might consider Bridgestone Turanza or Dunlop Grandtrek as models of tires but under each model are a multitude of different actual models some of which can actually be used on the same vehicle.


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16
the Michelins are confusing that way, there are a lot of different models in the MXV " family"


dsa

@bell.ca
Posting like asked ,

I wanted to install my brand new winter tire but i saw that weather in the upper teens are for the next week , would it be better to wait ?


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
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Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by dsa :

I wanted to install my brand new winter tire but i saw that weather in the upper teens are for the next week , would it be better to wait ?

Depends on your location and its weather history...

Last year I didn't even bother installing them because where I am in southern Ontario, we hardly had any questionable weather.

This year I'm simply going to wait until we're about to get some questionable weather and I'll have them installed at the last minute, probably near the end of December.

At the end of the day it's up to you and how safe you'll feel and how much cash you have. I try to maximize as many years as I can out of my tires because I'm a cheapskate.