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vitesse

join:2002-12-17
Saint-Jean-Sur-Richelieu, QC
reply to DKS

Re: This Is Why We Need Pay Phones

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

HoboJ

join:2008-03-27
Cornwall, ON
kudos:1
said by vitesse:

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

Unfortunately the public and more importantly emergency services aren't really equipped to interface with ham radio operators. Even with the ARES training done by many ham radio groups they're lucky to get even token support from their local emergency services. It really is a shame that such resources aren't better integrated or even acknowledged.


vitesse

join:2002-12-17
Saint-Jean-Sur-Richelieu, QC

1 recommendation

Ham radio emergency system are better implemented than one would think.

In Canada you have CFARS, RAC and RAQI that coordinate Emergency system with public emergency service.


lugnut

@look.ca
said by vitesse:

Ham radio emergency system are better implemented than one would think.

In Canada you have CFARS, RAC and RAQI that coordinate Emergency system with public emergency service.

This is why I keep a hand held Cobra CB Radio in my emergency kit. It runs on standard AA Batteries and I know it won't fail me in a real emergency.

»www.thesource.ca/estore/product.···=2111507

Cheap insurance at twice the price.

Cellphones and landlines can only get you so far in an emergency and the CB radio, belittled by most these days, is still a strong contender for the first line of emergency communication when the sh*t hits the fan


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to vitesse
said by vitesse:

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

Not true. The central offices of Bell Canada have large batteries and generators to recharge them. They can go for days.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to HoboJ
said by HoboJ:

said by vitesse:

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

Unfortunately the public and more importantly emergency services aren't really equipped to interface with ham radio operators. Even with the ARES training done by many ham radio groups they're lucky to get even token support from their local emergency services. It really is a shame that such resources aren't better integrated or even acknowledged.

In fact, they are. Our local ham radio operators have a mobile trailer which is a co-ordinated part of the County disaster plan.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

said by vitesse:

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

Not true. The central offices of Bell Canada have large batteries and generators to recharge them. They can go for days.

He might be referring to Rogers Home Phone, which do not have an infinite lifespan during power failure.

I recall when we had the 2003 Blackout, I still had internet (I had the USB-powered Stingray DSL) and was able to make hotel plans for Quebec...and of course, phone still worked. Actually never recall a phone outage ever with Bell.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by J E F F:

said by DKS:

said by vitesse:

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

Not true. The central offices of Bell Canada have large batteries and generators to recharge them. They can go for days.

He might be referring to Rogers Home Phone, which do not have an infinite lifespan during power failure.

Rogers Home Phone is not a copper-wire system.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to HoboJ
said by HoboJ:

emergency services aren't really equipped to interface with ham radio operators. Even with the ARES training done by many ham radio groups they're lucky to get even token support from their local emergency services. It really is a shame that such resources aren't better integrated or even acknowledged.

That totally depends on where you live and is by no means universally true. The ARES guys and the local emergency responders have a half-decent relationship in Niagara, and they've relied on each other in the past during major storms.

I would imagine that in a storm the magnitude of Sandy the ham guys in New Jersey and Downstate New York are busy busy busy.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

Not true. The central offices of Bell Canada have large batteries and generators to recharge them. They can go for days.

Every CO and remote will have a minimum of 3 hours reserve of battery; and often more. Typically 3-4 hours if there's a fixed generator on site, 8 hours for sites protected by portable generators, and as much as 24 hours of battery for very remote sites.

If there's a generator onsite, it will have between 24 and 72 hours of fuel at a minimum, depending on the classification of the site; and sometimes much more.

Some of my offices maintain as much as 14 days of fuel; although most are 48-72 hours.

As for Roger's - they got smacked a few years ago for the reliability of their phone service, and have added batteries and remote generators to much of their outside plant, to keep amp's and nodes up and running; to ensure phone service remains active.

That's why Vonage and a few other VoIP companies have fought hard to keep from being classed as Telco's, and instead refer to themselves as "Voice application providers" - to end-run the life-safety and availability requirements placed on telco's...

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by LazMan:

If there's a generator onsite, it will have between 24 and 72 hours of fuel at a minimum, depending on the classification of the site; and sometimes much more.

Some of my offices maintain as much as 14 days of fuel; although most are 48-72 hours.

If you remember the "Ice Storm"... yes that ice storm...Bell...bless their hearts put a lot of effort into making sure each CO had a generator and fuel shipped in.

As the likelihood of a major long lasting power interruption is pretty good, if not guaranteed, in our lifetime it will be interesting to see if they could or would sustain that effort next time.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
said by peterboro:

If you remember the "Ice Storm"... yes that ice storm...Bell...bless their hearts put a lot of effort into making sure each CO had a generator and fuel shipped in.

As the likelihood of a major long lasting power interruption is pretty good, if not guaranteed, in our lifetime it will be interesting to see if they could or would sustain that effort next time.

I do remember - I made some good money...

There wasn't exactly a generator per CO - what they did, and what the plans still call for - is truck and trailer mounted generators to go site to site, recharge the batteries, and then relocate... Wash, rinse, and repeat. Also, as utility providers, they have priority access to fuel; as well as having contracts in place with providers and local, regional, and national levels.

They also brought in generators from other territories (during the blackout in '03 - my company flew or drove/towed generators from other regions into Ontario) for coverage.

That said - telco power's a funny, and cyclical thing...

Great amounts of money are spent on backup power, and there's never a problem... So the bean counters cut the funding, saying "Why are we wasting all this money on generators and batteries, when our power never has a problem?" - about 3 years after the funding cuts, there starts to be issues - generators don't start when they are supposed to, batteries don't have the life they should, etc... Another year or two after that, funding is restored, because "Our power is sh_t! We need to fix it!" Wait about 3-4 years, and funding is cut again... And the wheel just goes round and round... LOL


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by LazMan:

There wasn't exactly a generator per CO - what they did, and what the plans still call for - is truck and trailer mounted generators to go site to site, recharge the batteries, and then relocate... Wash, rinse, and repeat. Also, as utility providers, they have priority access to fuel; as well as having contracts in place with providers and local, regional, and national levels.

They also brought in generators from other territories (during the blackout in '03 - my company flew or drove/towed generators from other regions into Ontario) for coverage.

reminds me of CAT Rental Power (one of our clients)...handy units...you can set up a small "field" of these units (the fixed ones can even run on NG or possibly Methane too) to create a quick "power station" often to supply areas off the beaten path where running permanent fixed line systems are either not possible or prohibitively expensive.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


vitesse

join:2002-12-17
Saint-Jean-Sur-Richelieu, QC
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·voip.ms
·Bell Sympatico
·Videotron
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

said by vitesse:

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

Not true. The central offices of Bell Canada have large batteries and generators to recharge them. They can go for days.

Has everyone said, your are wrong. they have battery for only few hours and not all C/O has generator. In the ice storm the only thing that permit to operate hospital in the black triangle was ham radio link. Bell worked hard in my city to maintain battery charged but they have been down for most of the time, and not at all in city downtown. Not only because the lack of power but their pole was down too.

The last thing that will remain operation in a real life situation is ham radio gears
--
Connection: ElectronicBox 60mbps / 3mbps
Bilingual DSLR ElectronicBox Forum: »ELECTRONICBOX


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by vitesse:

The last thing that will remain operation in a real life situation is ham radio gears

Yup. That pretty much sums it up.

I've even heard stories of the police pulling over people with ham plates because the radio in their car was screwed and they needed to call in. This is years ago mind you, but the point remains. Hams are an important part of the safety system.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to vitesse
said by vitesse:

said by DKS:

said by vitesse:

another great solution is to use ham radio gear to make communication when nothing else work. Phone can only operate few hour under power outage. emergency battery can't last forever if they are not re-charged.

Not true. The central offices of Bell Canada have large batteries and generators to recharge them. They can go for days.

Has everyone said, your are wrong. they have battery for only few hours and not all C/O has generator. In the ice storm the only thing that permit to operate hospital in the black triangle was ham radio link. Bell worked hard in my city to maintain battery charged but they have been down for most of the time, and not at all in city downtown. Not only because the lack of power but their pole was down too.

The last thing that will remain operation in a real life situation is ham radio gears

Even small exchanges have connection plugs and batteries so that a generator can be attached. My own CO in this city has a large generator in the back and batteries in the basement. Without the generator, the batteries can last only 3 hours. That was the problem in the Toronto exchange fire in 1999. »writer-tech.com/pages/articles/telecom.htm

BTW, the ILEC in our area, Bruce Telecom, has a remote CO with a honking big generator plug coming out of the wall.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by DKS:

My own CO in this city has a large generator in the back and batteries in the basement.

All CO's have batteries.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to DKS
Uh, generators had nothing to do with the 99 outage at the Simcoe st CO... The dead short in the switchgear, caused be electricians working unsafely; and the water from the firefighters caused the issue.

And yes, I was there. I was with Nortel at the time, and we went in to assist with recovery work.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by LazMan:

Uh, generators had nothing to do with the 99 outage at the Simcoe st CO... The dead short in the switchgear, caused be electricians working unsafely; and the water from the firefighters caused the issue.

And yes, I was there. I was with Nortel at the time, and we went in to assist with recovery work.

Generators didn't cause the outage, but as they could not be run, I understand, they could not recharge the batteries.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

mr weather
Premium
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

reminds me of CAT Rental Power (one of our clients)...handy units...you can set up a small "field" of these units (the fixed ones can even run on NG or possibly Methane too) to create a quick "power station" often to supply areas off the beaten path where running permanent fixed line systems are either not possible or prohibitively expensive.

After the 1998 Ice Storm I heard stories of diesel locomotives pulling up to sidings and power being drawn from them to supply farming operations and other emergency services until the regular hydro lines were replaced.

Speaking of ham radio, I got my ticket in 1999 and while not a regular user I have a fully operational HF/VHF/UHF station at home.
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes


rogersmogers

@start.ca
said by mr weather:

said by dirtyjeffer:

reminds me of CAT Rental Power (one of our clients)...handy units...you can set up a small "field" of these units (the fixed ones can even run on NG or possibly Methane too) to create a quick "power station" often to supply areas off the beaten path where running permanent fixed line systems are either not possible or prohibitively expensive.

After the 1998 Ice Storm I heard stories of diesel locomotives pulling up to sidings and power being drawn from them to supply farming operations and other emergency services until the regular hydro lines were replaced.

Speaking of ham radio, I got my ticket in 1999 and while not a regular user I have a fully operational HF/VHF/UHF station at home.

I take your sidings and raise you trains parked on the streets.








Pic #1: The loco that CN lent to the city to supply power during the ice storm crisis that lasted 6-7 days in January 98 being put back on the track.She had been moved about 500 ft from the crossing.

During the winter of 1998, a severe ice storm cut off power to many homes and businesses in Ontario and Quebec. CN M-420 3502 was hoisted off the rails by crane and rolled along a street in Boucherville QC in order to provide power in the community. The engine was driven approximately 1,000 feet (305 m) under its own power to the city hall, where it then became a portable power generator.[4] M-420 3508 was also lifted from the tracks to provide power to a school being used as a shelter, but problems prevented this from happening, and 3508 remained on standby. Both engines suffered minor gear case damage and carved grooves in the pavement.

I have the ice storm book so I remember seeing the pictures and just found them on google.