Topic 'Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!' in forum 'Verizon Fiber Optics' - dslreports.com

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:14:12 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : Ah sorry, didnt see the post you replied to. ;)
But the intent was more for others reading, who likely have TV as well.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:11:11 EDT

birdfeedr posted :

said by ITALIAN926:

You dont remove coax if you have FiOS TV !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was replying to a specific scenario.

said by Flycat:

I only have fios internet and want to do away with the coax run into my living room.

You're absolutely right that the MoCA LAN is needed to get data to the STB and DVR. But, I have FiOS TV service and don't need the Actiontec.

I don't use FiOS TV hardware, except for a cablecard and a DCT-700, neither of which are data-enabled.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:58:40 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted :

quote:
After reboot, verify WAN connection by checking router main status page. Then you can remove coax connection.

You dont remove coax if you have FiOS TV !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:06:09 EDT

birdfeedr posted :

said by Flycat:

What do you have to ask for?

Run the ethernet, connect it up to WAN, leave both ethernet and coax connected, then request switch in the »Verizon Direct forum. When switch is made, router will reboot and pick up new connection.

Except for reboot, you'll have data connection before and after. You can't predict when VZDirect will make the switch, but it will happen.

After reboot, verify WAN connection by checking router main status page. Then you can remove coax connection.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:12:05 EDT

Flycat posted : What do you have to ask for? I called in to support and they insisted on putting me through to billing.

After waiting on hold for 10 minutes, the billing dept informed me that a tech visit would be required costing me a min of $110. When I informed her that I read I could wire it myself she admitted that she was completely unfamiliar with the request.

I only have fios internet and want to do away with the coax run into my living room.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:35:39 EDT

bsangs posted :

said by brianiscool:

If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package

This is completely false. I have FiOS internet, TV and digital voice. Have the 50/25 package and am provisioned for ethernet. Just set up the cabling yourself, make a phone call, tell them you switched it over to ethernet and it takes about 15 minutes to get provisioned.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:11:55 EDT

dennismurphy posted :

said by brianiscool:

If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package

Stop talking out your ass. You're completely wrong in everything you said.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sat, 10 Nov 2012 09:02:10 EDT

anon posted : Have to update my results post, I wasn't pinging my Internet Gateway. Here are the updated results after the switch to Ethernet from MoCA:

Verizon switched it!

Here is that ping difference to the first hop upstream router (note that the gateway IP changed):

Before the switch (from the OP):

C:\Users\username>ping 108.49.145.1 -t

Pinging 108.49.145.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125

Ping statistics for 108.49.145.1:
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 8ms

After the switch:

C:\Users\username>ping 108.20.201.1 -t

Pinging 108.20.201.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.20.201.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.20.201.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.20.201.1: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.20.201.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.20.201.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.20.201.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=125

Ping statistics for 108.20.201.1:
Packets: Sent = 6, Received = 6, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 5ms, Maximum = 7ms, Average = 5ms

Pretty interesting. So using the Coaxial (note you may need to if you have TV through FiOS) adds almost 2-5 ms to the ping!

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:37:08 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : Ohhhh I thought he was pinging an outside server, I get it now, thanx

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:21:26 EDT

ScrawnyB posted : His IP (and subsequently, his gateway) changed whenever his connection was switched from moca/coax to ethernet, as a result of the DHCP release/renew process.

Not all of Verizon's IP's are in the same (sequential) IP pool/subnets for one area.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:29:54 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : Why are you pinging two different servers, then comparing them? Shouldnt you be pinging the SAME destination?

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:27:13 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : For shits and Giggles, I just switched my internet from MocA to ethernet, I shaved off a whole 6ms off my ping. Will I ever notice a difference? Doubtful.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:54:00 EDT

danclan posted : Ethernet is optional at the customers request for all plans under 150/65.

Ethernet is required for the 150 and 300 plan.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:25:46 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted :

quote:
If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package

NOT TRUE

If you have FiOS TV, you can use cat5 wiring for your internet, the router still gets fed with COAX for use with the TV services.

Anyone can buy their own cat5e and run it to router, and call to switch it to ethernet. LEAVE THE COAX IN PLACE.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:23:34 EDT

ctaranto posted :

said by brianiscool:

If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package

That simply is not true. I have FiOS TV and Internet. The Internet is 35/35. I'm using Ethernet to the Actiontec. I just had to ask.

-Craig

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:08:40 EDT

birdfeedr posted : You (or someone with the tools) can run your own ethernet. I don't remember if you previously posted you are restricted by landlord or not. That may be the barrier.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:05:24 EDT

codydog posted : thanks. its coax

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:49:20 EDT

birdfeedr posted : One quick visual check: is anything plugged in to the WAN ethernet port on the Actiontec? If not, and you have internet, you are using MoCA.

But, just because you have something plugged into it, doesn't mean you're using ethernet WAN. Log in to the router status page and look on the left panel for Broadband Connection type. It will identify either coax or ethernet

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 12:02:54 EDT

brianiscool posted : If you get their 150Mbs package alone it is cheaper, but you will have to agree to a 2 year contract.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:34:31 EDT

codydog posted : I'm on 75/35 which is max where I am although I would gladly pay for 150/65. Low latency is very important to me.

Current ping times are little better than Cox. Any way V can make an exception on this?

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:04:29 EDT

sykchyld posted : Dark sign in on a real account if you have not reached anyone yet and ill attempt to help you.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:41:57 EDT

eival posted : the main bonus about Ethernet is its easier to setup QoS and other things with any user friendly 3rd party routers GUI than Verizon's with its stupid warning page every time you try to access a submenu and overly technical language

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:06:32 EDT

brianiscool posted : If you have their cable service you have to use MOCA. Also they will not convert you to ethernet only unless you have a 100Mbps package

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:27:36 EDT

codydog posted : How do I know if I'm on Moca or not? I'd love to reduce latency here

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:29:21 EDT

birdfeedr posted :

said by DarkDune :

adds almost 7-10 ms to the ping!

should read "in my sample, 6 to 9, averaging 7ms" since YMMV applies. :D

Everybody knows a GrammarNazi. I freak out on inaccurate analysis. Sorry. Nice results, any way expressed.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:00:50 EDT

anon posted : Hey!

Livechat is back! For the moment anyhow...

I am chatting with Verizon now about this...will keep you posted!

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:00:34 EDT

anon posted : Verizon switched it!

Here is that ping difference to the first hop upstream router (note that the gateway IP changed):

Before the switch (from the OP):

C:\Users\username>ping 108.49.145.1 -t

Pinging 108.49.145.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125

Ping statistics for 108.49.145.1:
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 8ms

After the switch:

C:\Users\username>ping 108.20.201.55 -t

Pinging 108.20.201.55 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63
Reply from 108.20.201.55: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=63

Ping statistics for 108.20.201.55:
Packets: Sent = 9, Received = 9, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 3ms, Average = 1ms

Pretty interesting. So using the Coaxial (note you may need to if you have TV through FiOS) adds almost 7-10 ms to the ping!

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 23:03:54 EDT

anon posted : Wow! Thanks for that FYI. I will post the info once I get Verizon on the phone and they make the change. Obviously they are really busy this weekend.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 21:51:58 EDT

ScrawnyB posted : holy crap, lol, well I think you bring up a good point, which means that quality of the coaxial network, including its physical cabling may indeed matter in the latency of the network.

I want to put an asterisk besides your comments, stating "These results are not typical" for the switch from MoCA to Ethernet WAN. :-)

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 21:11:01 EDT

McBane posted : Mine dropped an average of 30ms, it was much more than just maybe 5ms. Maybe it was just he quality of the RG6 at my old apartment when I was on MOCA, but I went from 35ms to my gateway to about 5ms on BPON. Now on GPON at my house I ping my gateway at about 1-2ms.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 10:51:17 EDT

ScrawnyB posted : Verizon normally has a "Live Chat" option, but I'm guessing they took it down due to their restoration efforts. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

But yeah, no idea how long until the Direct forum gets checked, probably Monday or Tuesday.

It's not like you don't have service anyways. Just be prepared for a disruption at random though, and you'll want to have your equipment hooked up already.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 10:32:34 EDT

anon posted : Thanks!

Yeah, I did go to Verizon Direct (»Verizon Direct). I think due to the work this weekend, Verizon techs have not been checking it since Nov. 3rd. I will hang in there. Many, many people in the hardest hit areas from Hurricane Sandy need their help more than me right now, so I understand.

I am impressed with Verizon's effort though on this restoration! Good luck Verizon!

Here are some videos about the restoration efforts in lower Manhattan and Rhode Island:

»www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl···dckem9DE

»www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl···IxS6PakI

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 10:20:37 EDT

ScrawnyB posted : You might want to do the online support stuff, and just ask them to switch it. Be warned, it took them FOREVER (hours) to get mine properly switched, even though its a matter of them resetting the ONT and what not. However, mine is likely not the typical case.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 10:12:57 EDT

anon posted : Thanks for the info. That is a significant drop in latency to your first hop, upstream router. Especially for Gaming.

Of course, due to Hurricane Sandy, I may not reach any Verizon Technicians this weekend :smileysad:

Hurricane Sandy Service Update: Verizon Technicians Out in Force This Weekend to Restore Services, Serve Customers
»newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···ice.html

»newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···3-12.JPG

Verizon workers are working 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to restore services in Lower Manhattan

»newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···andy.jpg

Verizon technicians restore electronics in an underground facility that was flooded in Dulles Corner, Va.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:53:25 EDT

ScrawnyB posted : My first-hop latency dropped about 3-4ms.

I think I can confidently say that you are looking at a 2~5ms change no matter what.

There is definitely some overhead with MoCA networking, but as I said, you are looking at ~5ms difference in going to ethernet for your WAN connection.

I think right now, I get 2-3ms on my first hop (outside of my network to Verizon), after the MoCA to ethernet conversion:

--- 98.117.0.1 ping statistics ---10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9009msrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 2.182/2.427/2.855/0.172 ms

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:34:03 EDT

More Fiber posted : Anecdotal evidence suggests it's on the order on 1-2ms.
No one that I'm aware of has done any quantifiable tests.

There is no extra encapsulation. What is transmitted on MOCA are ethernet frames. MOCA is a mesh network, which means only one device on the coax can transmit at a time. When a device wants to transmit has to wait for its turn. There is also additional buffering into and out of the MOCA transceiver chip on each end.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:27:55 EDT

anon posted : BTW: If I finally get Verizon on the phone, I'll post before and after latency results.

Here are a few before results from speedtest.net, pingtest.net, and a ping to my Verizon Gateway IP.

[att=1]

[att=2]

C:\Users\username>ping 108.49.145.1 -t

Pinging 108.49.145.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=125
Reply from 108.49.145.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=125

Ping statistics for 108.49.145.1:
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 8ms

FiOS - Ethernet Instead of MoCA!

Sun, 04 Nov 2012 09:07:35 EDT

anon posted : Hey folks,

I am on hold forever today with Verizon support, requesting that they switch my FiOS connection to Ethernet instead of MoCA.

Can anyone describe or confirm that their latency improved after switching away from MoCA?

I am also curious if anyone can describe the extra encapsulation/decapsulation process that Ethernet packets have to endure when being prepped to go over a MoCA connection. I am really interested to better understand why is adds latency to regular Internet traffic.

Thanks!