| Cat5/Cat6...... Phone/DSL install I am replacing the phone lines with some cat5/cat6 since they are really,really old.I already have the wire,so why not.
I am going to run separate wires to each room. Two rooms just need phone,but the other needs to be phone and DSL.Not sure how I should go about wiring it up. I don't want to run 4 wires outside to the NID. I want to just run one main wire form the NID into the crawlspace to some sort of panel,block,etc. I have 110 punch downs to terminate RJ45 and RJ11 jacks for the wall plates(keystone).
Would a 66 block work? Even though the cable is cat5/6,not sure it really matters with DSL speeds.Any suggestions are appreciated. |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | If you aren't going to run individual wires for each outlet, then upgrading to cat5/cat6 won't do squat because you won't be able to convert them to network wiring in the future.
At this point you gotta ask yourself this: Why would you even bother? Are you trying to get a better signal quality for the DSL? Why are you trying to get a better signal at the DSL? Is it losing the connection often? If so, have you tried the DSL to be at the NID to see if the connection stabilized? If it doesn't stabilize, you have other issues.
edit - To go further on the DSL signal quality, you need to find out whether or not you already get the speed you're supposed to get. Either in the DSL's config page where you see the stats and sync speed, or a DSL diagnostic tool that gets the sync speed. If the sync speed matches what you should get from your ISP, then you're okay and don't need anything more. |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
You never want a punchdown block in a crawl space. They are usually nasty, humid, and full of cobwebs. Not only that, but they suck to get in. Locate the splice in a civilized area.
Most 66 blocks these days are Cat5 rated. Cat5 is overkill for DSL signal anyway (though it makes no sense to buy cat3 these days). Your inside wiring is just a drop in the bucket. That DSL signal travels of miles of non-cat cable to get to your house.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't. |
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| reply to alkizmo
The reason for replacing the wire is that the phones do have a little static in them and the phone company says that there line tests are ok. They say its the inside wiring. This seems to cause the DSL to drop every now and then. After checking the stats on my modem,I am showing some noise in the lines for the DSL.
Since I have cat5/6 already from other projects,I figured I would just use it and replace all of it.
As for speeds I am supposed to get 3.0 down and 384 up. My speed tests vary from 2.2dn/.30 up to 2.6dn/.33 up. My speed seems to be where it should be. |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
You can do that but I agree with the other replies about not using 66 punchdown unless you know it won't get wet there. Also you should use a pots splitter to get the best possible signal to your modem. Use one pair from the nid to a Pots Splitter in the crawlspace then branch off from there. |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
So a POTS splitter would allow me to have a dedicated line to the DSL and then be able to branch off of it for phone? Links to what I should be using?
I say crawlspace,but there is more than enough room to get to it if needed.As for it getting wet,that won't be a problem. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | said by Gigabyte2004:So a POTS splitter would allow me to have a dedicated line to the DSL and then be able to branch off of it for phone?
If I am not mistaken, a POTS splitter is just a DSL line filter, but at the NID, so all the phones on the voice side of the splitter are filtered at the NID (instead of having a filter for every phone).
So you need two wires at the POTS splitter.
If the noise issue happens when someone is using the phone (voice) then you probably have a filter problem.
What I would do is put a POTS splitter at the nid, put the existing house wiring on the voice side and run a new CAT5/CAT6 line from the data side of the splitter to the room with DSL. You'd only need to run one new wire to one room. |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
I assume that this is what I need?
»www.amazon.com/SUTTLE-SE-649A1-O···0171AJXY
So I can just take the phone wires that I have now and run them to one side and the dedicated (new) DSL line to the other? then I can also get rid of the dsl filters at the phone jacks? |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to Gigabyte2004
said by Gigabyte2004:The reason for replacing the wire is that the phones do have a little static in them and the phone company says that there line tests are ok. They say its the inside wiring. This seems to cause the DSL to drop every now and then. After checking the stats on my modem,I am showing some noise in the lines for the DSL.
Since I have cat5/6 already from other projects,I figured I would just use it and replace all of it.
As for speeds I am supposed to get 3.0 down and 384 up. My speed tests vary from 2.2dn/.30 up to 2.6dn/.33 up. My speed seems to be where it should be.
Take you a plain old telephone and plug it into your NID. I bet you have static there also.
The Telco told me that too. Time and time again but it was always in their lines to the house. We had static, hum and distortion, Old underground system. I switched to Verizon Home Connect wireless and disconnected the hard wired system. Works very well. |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
said by Gigabyte2004:I assume that this is what I need?
»www.amazon.com/SUTTLE-SE-649A1-O···0171AJXY
So I can just take the phone wires that I have now and run them to one side and the dedicated (new) DSL line to the other? then I can also get rid of the dsl filters at the phone jacks?
check with your provider, here in canukistan Ma Bell gives pots splitters for free |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
said by Gigabyte2004:I assume that this is what I need?
»www.amazon.com/SUTTLE-SE-649A1-O···0171AJXY
So I can just take the phone wires that I have now and run them to one side and the dedicated (new) DSL line to the other? then I can also get rid of the dsl filters at the phone jacks?
check with your provider, here in canukistan Ma Bell gives pots splitters for free and will even send a tech to install it |
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
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| reply to alkizmo
Splitter vs inline filter |
said by alkizmo: If I am not mistaken, a POTS splitter is just a DSL line filter, but at the NID, so all the phones on the voice side of the splitter are filtered at the NID
True a whole house splitter eliminates the need to put an inline filter at each non-DSL device. But depending on the specific device there are some other benefits.
Whole house splitter may be a multistage passive filter vs the single stage used for inline filters. A multstage filter does a better job isolating Voice from DSL. I use a Siecor/Corning splitter as a plus it includes a half-ringer test circuit after the filter. This allows the one in the NID to be removed. ADSL was designed to work in the presence of a half-ringer but if your signal is marginal every little bit helps. The splitter also has built in secondary over voltage protection.
I think Tii Network Tech is making it now.
»tiinetworktechnologies.com/repos···1211.pdf
Regardless of what you install it is always a good idea to plug your DSL modem directly into the NID test jack and compare stats with modem at its normal location. That will tell you if inside wiring is degrading performance. Whole house splitter does a better job of isolating voice from DSL but there are some impairments it cannot correct.
As Jack_in_VA  posted it is always a good idea to perform another test. Plug a phone directly into the test jack. If you hear static, especially when phone is first picked up or crosstalk, other voices call voice repair.
/tom |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
something like this inside your NID..
look at the top row with that red wire sticking out [was doing some tests]...that's a Tii dsl splitter...
orange / orange white pair is dsl circuit going inside the house...
blue / blue white is voice pair going inside the house...
you can terminate that dsl circuit pair to telephone junction box and connect your modem directly.
 |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
»tiinetworktechnologies.com/repos···1211.pdf
That is actuallly the same one I saw on ebay for $20.
I checked the wires at the NID and found one of the wires had a screw that wasn't completely tight.I tightened it up and the slight static that was there,seems to be gone.Not sure that was actually the problem or not.
I'll try to find a phone cord long enough to hook my modem to the NID and see what my speeds are. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | said by Gigabyte2004:I'll try to find a phone cord long enough to hook my modem to the NID and see what my speeds are.
The speeds you posted before seem normal for 3000kbs download sync. DSL always has a loss for overhead.
The issue you need to observe is the loss of connection. |
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| reply to Gigabyte2004
My NID is a little different from others I have seen. Looks like I would need to do the whole house instead of just a splitter. |
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nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:8 | That's one FUBAR nid. I can tell you this, your line is unbalanced. |
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| Anything else I can do besides add a POTS? The black wire on the right is the main line coming in.
That's one reason I was going to just rewire everything. Atleast it would look a little cleaner. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to nunya
said by nunya:. Cat5 is overkill for DSL signal anyway (though it makes no sense to buy cat3 these days). Your inside wiring is just a drop in the bucket. That DSL signal travels of miles of non-cat cable to get to your house.
I've wondered about the logic of spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars inside the house when the crap phone service to the house negates all of it.  It can never be any better than what's coming in. |
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tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
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1 edit | reply to nunya
said by nunya:That's one FUBAR nid. I can tell you this, your line is unbalanced.
To expand a little on nunya somewhat cryptic post you have a NID that can be configured for one or two phone lines. Currently only one line is installed.
You indicated the black wire off the the right is the drop into the house. There are four other cables. One of which should be ground, usually Grey but I don't know if that is a regional thing.
That leaves three inside cables so one would expect 3 Red (Ring) wires and 3 Green (Tip) wires connected to the customer premise equipment (CPE) terminals. I only see 5 wires.
Phone lines are balanced relative to ground to prevent hum. Screwed up inside wiring is has to be really bad to mess up voice but DSL is much more sensitive to unbalance.
So the first step is to fix your existing inside wiring. A splitter is not going to help resolve and unbalanced line.
I agree Cat5e is overkill but it makes since to use Cat5e for phone wiring since it is the same prices at Cat3 and allows the possibility of converting phone line to Ethernet drop in the future.
If your inside wiring is twisted pair of any flavor there is no sense in replacing it. Judging from your picture house is wired with quad-four cable that is not twisted. That is vulnerable to crosstalk but is not an issue in your case since you only have one line.
Priority should be:
1) Check stats at NID compared to normal DSL modem location
2) With phone connected to NID test jack evaluate voice quality
3) Fix unbalanced pair
3) If DSL stats are better with modem connected to NID install a splitter with dedicated run to modem location using twisted pair cable.
4) If after doing all that and modem stats are still better at the NID test jack than normal location disconnect all non-DSL equipment from line. If stats are still bad replace phone wiring. It is very unlikely you will need to do step 4.
/tom |
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