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brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1
reply to Gigabyte2004

Re: Cat5/Cat6...... Phone/DSL install

You will not see a drastic improvement, but the cost is not much of a difference. Go for CAT6 at least you will reduce a tiny bit of latency. If you want to not upgrade for decades go for CAT7 I think it can handle 10Gbps.



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12


Go for CAT6 at least you will reduce a tiny bit of latency.

How's that?
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
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1 recommendation

reply to tschmidt

I think I see the "issue". It looks like somebody broke the ring wire off of the terminal and just wrapped it around the screw rather than replacing the module.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to nunya

Category 6 cable, commonly referred to as Cat 6, is a cable standard for Gigabit Ethernet and other network physical layers that is backward compatible with the Category 5/5e and Category 3 cable standards. Compared with Cat 5 and Cat 5e, Cat 6 features more stringent specifications for crosstalk and system noise. The cable standard provides performance of up to 250 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet), 1000BASE-T/1000BASE-TX (Gigabit Ethernet) and 10GBASE-T (10-Gigabit Ethernet).

Whereas Category 6 cable has a reduced maximum length when used for 10GBASE-T; Category 6a cable, or Augmented Category 6, is characterized to 500 MHz and has improved alien crosstalk characteristics, allowing 10GBASE-T to be run for the same distance as previous protocols.


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to Gigabyte2004

I would go the other way around...

I'd call you telco and request that your NID be swapped with a newer version with a dsl splitter inside just like what I posted.

From there, do a home run for your dsl line and voice pair. Connect modem to dsl junction box [without splitters since it's been split already at the NID] and phone to voice junction box.

Observe if you still have an issue...if yes, then a whole house re-wire is your next step. If not, then the new NID coupled with the homeruns solved your issue. Up to you if you still want to do a whole house re-wire..



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to brianiscool

said by brianiscool:

You will not see a drastic improvement, but the cost is not much of a difference. Go for CAT6 at least you will reduce a tiny bit of latency. If you want to not upgrade for decades go for CAT7 I think it can handle 10Gbps.

How is that going to be accomplished? Remember the limiting factor is the POTS for DSL service to the house.


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

1 recommendation

reply to brianiscool

I'm quite aware of what Cat6 is, thank you very much. I've even installed a few feet in my time. Please explain how it will decrease latency.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

CAT6e can handle more bandwidth and travels at a higher MHZ band.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

1 edit

said by brianiscool:

CAT6e can handle more bandwidth and travels at a higher MHZ band.

Bandwidth has nothing to do with latency.
Frequency, while affecting latency, isn't going to change just because you use Cat6 (And even then you wouldn't even get 0.0000001ms reduction in latency for 100 feet run).

I can have a 1000000 BAZILLION gigabyte connection and have 5 hours latency.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to brianiscool

said by brianiscool:

CAT6e can handle more bandwidth and travels at a higher MHZ band.

And what is the source of this 10 Gbbs? What does bandwidth have to do with Latency?

Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

OK,I never asked as to should I or shouldn't I use cat5/6 cable for the phones. I have it already so it's not like I am going to run our and buy it. So it makes more sense to go get cat3 cable to use,just because the cat5/6 is overkill? I don't think so.So we can stop debating it.Lets move on.

Now back to the subject at hand. DSL stats at the NID are a little better. I was averaging 2.2dn/.30 up to 2.6dn/.33 up.At the NID I was getting constant 2.8 down and .37 up with a ping of 45.

Now If I take all that junk out of the NID that is there now and then run a wire from it to a POTS,then do my runs from there,is that going to be better?

I appreciate all the help by the way.


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by Gigabyte2004:

Now If I take all that junk out of the NID that is there now and then run a wire from it to a POTS,then do my runs from there,is that going to be better?

I suggest you read from post above...

Don't try to "properly" re-wire that NID yourself...you're better off having a telco tech do it.

Bottom line is, a new NID is a must and do homeruns after you get one with a dsl splitter inside.


tschmidt
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join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
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reply to Gigabyte2004

said by Gigabyte2004:

Now back to the subject at hand. DSL stats at the NID are a little better. I was averaging 2.2dn/.30 up to 2.6dn/.33 up.At the NID I was getting constant 2.8 down and .37 up with a ping of 45.

That is largely a meaningless test as many things can affect end-to-end file transfer speed. What you want to compare are the modem stats, attenuation, sync speed, TX/Rx power and margin. That isolates DSL physical parameters.

said by Gigabyte2004:

Now If I take all that junk out of the NID that is there now and then run a wire from it to a POTS,then do my runs from there,is that going to be better?

Impossible to tell until you run some additional tests.

/tom

Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

Here's some stat after I hooked everything back up. I just dont have time to go back and hook the modem directly to the NID,but I will tomorrow.

Downstream and Upstream Statistics
Downstream Upstream
SN Margin (dB) 13.9 16.1
Line Attenuation (dB) 55.5 33.4
Output Power(dBm) 14.0 4.3
Errored Seconds 24402 17
Loss of Signal 3 0
Loss of Frame 0 0
FEC Errors 0 0
CRC Errors 123017 39

Downstream Sync Rate (kbps) 1971
Upstream Sync Rate (kbps) 509
Modulation ADSL2+


Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC

1 edit
reply to medbuyer

I'll give the Telco a call tomorrow and see what they say about the new NID with the splitter.

Update. Spent the last 30 mins with ATT and was told that they don't have a NID that has a DSL splitter in it.


kruser
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Eastern MO
reply to Gigabyte2004

said by Gigabyte2004:

Here's some stat after I hooked everything back up. I just dont have time to go back and hook the modem directly to the NID,but I will tomorrow.

Downstream and Upstream Statistics
Downstream Upstream
SN Margin (dB) 13.9 16.1
Line Attenuation (dB) 55.5 33.4
Output Power(dBm) 14.0 4.3
Errored Seconds 24402 17
Loss of Signal 3 0
Loss of Frame 0 0
FEC Errors 0 0
CRC Errors 123017 39

Downstream Sync Rate (kbps) 1971
Upstream Sync Rate (kbps) 509
Modulation ADSL2+

I'll be anxious to see the stats again after you plug the modem directly into the NID.

Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

I'll try to get to it as soon as I can.


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to Gigabyte2004

said by Gigabyte2004:

I'll give the Telco a call tomorrow and see what they say about the new NID with the splitter.

Update. Spent the last 30 mins with ATT and was told that they don't have a NID that has a DSL splitter in it.

regular csr's won't know anything about a splitter inside the NID. just call them and ask them to install a new NID for you...

when the install date comes, you either wait in person for the tech to come and ask for that splitter or when you can't be around, hang / put a note on the to be replaced NID that a new splitter inside the NID be installed as well..

Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

I actually talked to one of the tech repair guys. Im going to call again tomorrow.


Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

Well, I decided to do a chat session with a repair tech and he actually set up an appointment for tomorrow to install a new NID with a splitter. Now we will see,what actually gets done since I will be at work.Think I will go ahead and leave a not like you suggested.


Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

Tech guy just left. He installed the DSL splitter in the box,but I lost my DSL signal. Removed it and the signal came back. He said that I may be on the border of my service.
He gave me the splitter and some connectors and even his cell phone number if I had any problems when I run the new wire.He thinks that once I run new wire and get the phone off the same line that it will be ok.We will see.

He said he cleaned up the old wires in the NID while he was out there.


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by Gigabyte2004:

Tech guy just left. He installed the DSL splitter in the box,but I lost my DSL signal. Removed it and the signal came back. He said that I may be on the border of my service.
He gave me the splitter and some connectors and even his cell phone number if I had any problems when I run the new wire.He thinks that once I run new wire and get the phone off the same line that it will be ok.We will see.

He said he cleaned up the old wires in the NID while he was out there.

can you post pics now of how the NID looks like inside and outside?

curious, what splitters can connectors did he give you?

Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

He did not change out the nid. I went and looked at the NID,and it looks like he just unhooked the wire that really didn't go anywhere.It also looks like he ran the phone line straight to the main wire without attaching it to the test port or the lugs that it was attached to.
He said that they were lines in there that went to nowhere in the house.So,somewhere under the house I have phone lines that just go nowhere.
I'll run and get some pics in a second.


Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

Click for full size
Click for full size
Here's what the NID looks like now and the splitter he gave. Sorry I forgot to rotate the picture.

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by Gigabyte2004:

Here's what the NID looks like now and the splitter he gave. Sorry I forgot to rotate the picture.

what a dumb*ss.....

that splitter is just like the one I posted earlier that need to be inside a new NID.

there's no way for you to use that on the old NID.

you got a lazy tech. one that doesn't know what he's doing....you said when he installed the filter you lost dsl signal and when he took it off you got it back again...he obviously is smoking something...

you're back to square one...call and complain about the inept and lazy tech did to your NID.

your issue won't go not unless that gets fixed...and if you have to wait and watch him, you might just have to do it...

OH and PRINT the picture I posted with the filter inside for reference...see if he can figure that out and do the same, if not don't waste your time..


jeffmoss26

join:2002-07-22
Beachwood, OH

You have to be kidding me. The tech bypassed the protector and spliced the incoming wires right to the house wiring. AKA your NID is useless.
Call at&t and demand they get someone out who knows what they are doing!


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by jeffmoss26:

You have to be kidding me. The tech bypassed the protector and spliced the incoming wires right to the house wiring. AKA your NID is useless.
Call at&t and demand they get someone out who knows what they are doing!

+1

didn't even realized that...


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
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reply to jeffmoss26

said by jeffmoss26:

The tech bypassed the protector and spliced the incoming wires right to the house wiring.

Not only did the tech not fix your problem he created a safety hazard by bypassing the protector. The job of the protector is to clamp excessive voltage to ground.

As others have posted call and complain.

/tom

Gigabyte2004

join:2004-09-12
Morganton, NC
reply to Gigabyte2004

I'll give them a call when I get off work tonight. He mentioned something
about there not being a NID for that splitter. Guess he was full of crap
telling me that too. Maybe I will get somebody to come tomorrow that knows
what he's doing.
If I have to watch him, I may as well do it myself. Lol


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by Gigabyte2004:

I'll give them a call when I get off work tonight. He mentioned something
about there not being a NID for that splitter. Guess he was full of crap
telling me that too. Maybe I will get somebody to come tomorrow that knows
what he's doing.
If I have to watch him, I may as well do it myself. Lol

Print the picture I posted and tell him "I want the exact same setup or similar"!

With the NID, telco can or might blame you for anything that might happen if you do any work to it that's not approved by them.

Anything beyond that or as soon as the wire goes inside, then you can do whatever you want...