dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3600
share rss forum feed


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to peterboro

Re: Cell phone tower locations in Canada

said by peterboro:

You posted it in reference to more than just DKS as an example of a better map but to dismiss even one users opinion as of "little relevance" is petulant to say the least.

It's DKS. The same guy who complained that LTE was completely useless for everyone because he had incorrect information regarding its deployment and the amount of people it covered. When it comes to stuff like this, I wouldn't have expected a response any different from him and which is why I replied in kind.

You should check out Coverage Mapper yourself, there's plenty of data for Peterborough despite not being part of the Great Black Hole that is the GTA. Like I said though, it's best for Wind.

Also, despite how much information loxcel still has, it's still missing a lot of data. There are no Rogers LTE sites, no 2600MHz cell sites which will soon be used by LTE phones, etc. It's not bad, but it is by no means complete.


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to RobThompson
wow. I did not know Wind coverage is as good as Rogers/Bell in Toronto. The actual map from the two link mentioned shows Wind is better in Toronto compared to any other.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by loosedobbs:

wow. I did not know Wind coverage is as good as Rogers/Bell in Toronto. The actual map from the two link mentioned shows Wind is better in Toronto compared to any other.

Wind still has issues in Toronto... I know of several people with Wind phones (various phone brands) and they mostly complain about dropped calls when driving. I guess their equipment doesnt handle tower hand-offs as well, or maybe its the distance between the towers, etc...
--



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by HiVolt:

Wind still has issues in Toronto... I know of several people with Wind phones (various phone brands) and they mostly complain about dropped calls when driving. I guess their equipment doesnt handle tower hand-offs as well, or maybe its the distance between the towers, etc...

Tower spacing isn't going to be an issue anywhere in the 416 when out in the open when driving. If calls drop it's most likely capacity related (e.g. too many people on the towers) and/or their towers aren't tuned to handle handoffs very well.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by Gone:

Tower spacing isn't going to be an issue anywhere in the 416 when out in the open when driving. If calls drop it's most likely capacity related (e.g. too many people on the towers) and/or their towers aren't tuned to handle handoffs very well.

I also notice strange high pitched squeals at times when I am talking to someone on Wind while they're driving... The other person doesnt hear them. Things that I've never heard talking to people on other carriers, including Public Mobile.
--



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
said by HiVolt:

I also notice strange high pitched squeals at times when I am talking to someone on Wind while they're driving... The other person doesnt hear them.

I saw that happen in a movie I was watching the other night. It usually means that the party you are speaking to is dead and is trying to communicate from The Great Beyond!


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
LOL Wolfie


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Now THAT'S a useless map. Very little outside urban areas and only an Android app.

Its usefulness to you is of little relevance to me. I'd like to see you do better.

No need to. The Loxcel map the OP posted is far better.

I await your complaining about the lack of Wind/LTE/everything in Owen Sound.

You took the words out of my mouth. Neither Wind not LTE are available up here. And, of course, no iPhone app. Just Andriod crap.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by peterboro:

You posted it in reference to more than just DKS as an example of a better map but to dismiss even one users opinion as of "little relevance" is petulant to say the least.

It's DKS. The same guy who complained that LTE was completely useless for everyone because he had incorrect information regarding its deployment and the amount of people it covered.

LTE is useless to me and all of rural Ontario. It is not deployed outside of urban centers. Typical of the telcos.

When it comes to stuff like this, I wouldn't have expected a response any different from him and which is why I replied in kind.

It is a useless map. Nothing more to say. Hard to read and deeply incomplete.

Also, despite how much information loxcel still has, it's still missing a lot of data. There are no Rogers LTE sites, no 2600MHz cell sites which will soon be used by LTE phones, etc. It's not bad, but it is by no means complete.

Loxcel draws their information from the Industry Canada tranche and is up to date as of October 4. If it is not available, apparently, it isn't there.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

said by HiVolt:

I also notice strange high pitched squeals at times when I am talking to someone on Wind while they're driving... The other person doesnt hear them.

I saw that happen in a movie I was watching the other night. It usually means that the party you are speaking to is dead and is trying to communicate from The Great Beyond!

Or it is a zombie phone...
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Hydraglass
Premium
join:2002-05-08
Kingston, ON
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

Loxcel draws their information from the Industry Canada tranche and is up to date as of October 4. If it is not available, apparently, it isn't there.

Seems to be quite behind or incorrect in the area between Belleville and Bancroft (my weekly drive to the cottage)- there's 3 new towers that were put up over the last 18 months along hwy 62 north of Madoc. Only 1 of them appears (a Rogers tower in Millbridge put up in fall '10). One of the new ones is a Bell/Telus 3G / HSPA only tower at Jordan Lake (which does appear on Bell's coverage map) installed in July '11. The other is a Rogers tower right at the Hwy 7 / Hwy 62 interchange in Madoc - also put up a while back ('10 maybe?). No idea why they are left off.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

LTE is useless to me and all of rural Ontario. It is not deployed outside of urban centers. Typical of the telcos.

And the same was with 3G when it came out. I'm not defending the telco's, but it's obviously more important to roll out newer services in the larger population centres, to get faster return on investment. Just like you moan that there is no faster DSL than 5meg in Owen Sound... Same deal.

LTE will come to the entire footprint like 3G eventually did.

I remember a few years ago just driving to the cottage and I checked my iPhone 3G in an area where it was only EDGE just a week before, and suddenly 3G was on my phone. And 3G stayed all the way up to the cottage.
--



loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

said by loosedobbs:

wow. I did not know Wind coverage is as good as Rogers/Bell in Toronto. The actual map from the two link mentioned shows Wind is better in Toronto compared to any other.

Wind still has issues in Toronto... I know of several people with Wind phones (various phone brands) and they mostly complain about dropped calls when driving. I guess their equipment doesnt handle tower hand-offs as well, or maybe its the distance between the towers, etc...

I am rogers user for long time but also started using Telus since last two months. Still afraid to switch to wind even with their unlimited plans. Heard many accompanist with Mobility in Toronto area. And no more Bell with any type of services. Rogers has been exceptional in my area. for all type of services but billing department sucks...

Still not convinced about WindMobile.


pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

LTE is useless to me and all of rural Ontario. It is not deployed outside of urban centers. Typical of the telcos.

Bell and Rogers rolling are it out pretty quickly. Lots of places like Kingston are recently lit up on both Bell and Rogers. Bell has some in Peterborough as well not sure about Rogers.

I notice on Bell's map they seem to prioritizing cottage country, with Lake of Bays and Muskoka and surrounding lakes covered, probably to sell internet access to cottagers. Kind of makes sense because those services will benefit greatly from LTE.

I notice Owen Sound has HSPA+ but not 42mbps, which is unfortunate for those who want fast wireless there, but maybe it will put it closer to the top of the list for LTE rollout.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

LTE is useless to me and all of rural Ontario. It is not deployed outside of urban centers. Typical of the telcos.

Incorrect. There's plenty of Bell LTE in rural areas, including central Ontario. You might be wise to look at their coverage map, as I was even shocked by just how much rural coverage they had.

said by DKS:

It is a useless map. Nothing more to say. Hard to read and deeply incomplete.

... it's about as useless as an incomplete map of cell phone towers without an accompanying topographic relief map to provide reference as far as propagation goes, but alas, I doubt you care.

For what it's worth, the Coverage Mapper map is user-contributed. It shows poor Rogers coverage up in Stokes Bay which confirms the experience I have up at a family cottage. One simply cannot help the fact that there are no people with rooted Android phones in Central Ontario who are willing to contribute to the project. If your attitude is any indication, I can't say I'm surprised.

While we're on the topic of dismissive attitude, you should have also enabled the tower listing option on the Coverage Mapper website, which shows all of the exact same cell site locations from IC as loxcel does. Perhaps if you had done that, combined with the available real-world coverage data shown on the map, you would have saw the context for which Coverage Mapper can - and typically is - be better than loxcel.

Loxcel is far more useful for information on the actual antennas that are mounted to each tower. Still, the vast majority of the people out there don't know what any of that means.

said by DKS:

Loxcel draws their information from the Industry Canada tranche and is up to date as of October 4. If it is not available, apparently, it isn't there.

There are two different major databases from IC - Spectrum Direct and TAFL - and are only updated quarterly. Those two databases are also notorious for being inaccurate to which the developer of Coverage Mapper has experienced first hand. For example, one of those databases (I want to say Spectrum Direct) shows a Wind Mobile tower on Garrison Road in Fort Erie, but the other doesn't. There is no consistency, and if anyone is attempting to use maps like this as some sort of indication of coverage, they're wasting their time. Coverage Mapper is a *much* better way, since it's based on actual real-world reception combined with the available tower location data. The caveat, of course, is that there needs to be someone to actually do the recording for real-world results.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that loxcel are able to show Bell LTE sites but not Rogers or Telus draws into question what else they aren't showing, or perhaps even showing in error.

Edit - the tower option has been removed from Coverage Mapper. Probably because, you know, the publicly-available and parseable information available from IC isn't exactly accurate.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Hydraglass
said by Hydraglass:

said by DKS:

Loxcel draws their information from the Industry Canada tranche and is up to date as of October 4. If it is not available, apparently, it isn't there.

Seems to be quite behind or incorrect in the area between Belleville and Bancroft (my weekly drive to the cottage)- there's 3 new towers that were put up over the last 18 months along hwy 62 north of Madoc. Only 1 of them appears (a Rogers tower in Millbridge put up in fall '10). One of the new ones is a Bell/Telus 3G / HSPA only tower at Jordan Lake (which does appear on Bell's coverage map) installed in July '11. The other is a Rogers tower right at the Hwy 7 / Hwy 62 interchange in Madoc - also put up a while back ('10 maybe?). No idea why they are left off.

Then per4haps you can let Loxcel know about that? It does include the Telus tower on DND property in my area, which is a site often missed.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

said by DKS:

LTE is useless to me and all of rural Ontario. It is not deployed outside of urban centers. Typical of the telcos.

And the same was with 3G when it came out. I'm not defending the telco's, but it's obviously more important to roll out newer services in the larger population centres, to get faster return on investment. Just like you moan that there is no faster DSL than 5meg in Owen Sound... Same deal.

LTE will come to the entire footprint like 3G eventually did.

I remember a few years ago just driving to the cottage and I checked my iPhone 3G in an area where it was only EDGE just a week before, and suddenly 3G was on my phone. And 3G stayed all the way up to the cottage.

Thank you for raising that. We are still on 5 meg DSL, with no future plan for higher speed, to my knowledge. In fact, the local Chamber of Commerce is very upset at all the providers for giving such shoddy service to this whole area.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by DKS:

We are still on 5 meg DSL, with no future plan for higher speed, to my knowledge.

Same deal here in Fort Erie, 6Mbit max with no plans for anything faster. A Bell field tech I talked to say they "eventually" would upgrade it, but when I asked him what eventually meant he laughed and said that could mean decades. It is beyond frustrating.

No LTE "here" until you get north of Lyon's Creek in Niagara Falls, but I've never thought LTE was anything worth crying about as far as smartphones go. HDPA is plenty fast for a mobile phone.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Hydraglass
said by Hydraglass:

Seems to be quite behind or incorrect in the area between Belleville and Bancroft (my weekly drive to the cottage)- there's 3 new towers that were put up over the last 18 months along hwy 62 north of Madoc. Only 1 of them appears (a Rogers tower in Millbridge put up in fall '10). One of the new ones is a Bell/Telus 3G / HSPA only tower at Jordan Lake (which does appear on Bell's coverage map) installed in July '11. The other is a Rogers tower right at the Hwy 7 / Hwy 62 interchange in Madoc - also put up a while back ('10 maybe?). No idea why they are left off.

Those public IC databases are notoriously inaccurate. Towers that have existed for months aren't in those databases, and just the same towers that have build permits but don't actually physically exist yet are in them, too. Cable is an option, especially now that we have TPIA on Cogeco, but cable doesn't go everywhere that DSL goes.

Loxcel

join:2012-11-06
reply to RobThompson
I'm curious to hear more from those of you who don't see any markers on the Loxcel map. One of our clients had experienced this issue, which we traced to their firewall configuration.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

LTE is useless to me and all of rural Ontario. It is not deployed outside of urban centers. Typical of the telcos.

Incorrect. There's plenty of Bell LTE in rural areas, including central Ontario. You might be wise to look at their coverage map, as I was even shocked by just how much rural coverage they had.

said by DKS:

It is a useless map. Nothing more to say. Hard to read and deeply incomplete.

... it's about as useless as an incomplete map of cell phone towers without an accompanying topographic relief map to provide reference as far as propagation goes, but alas, I doubt you care.

For what it's worth, the Coverage Mapper map is user-contributed. It shows poor Rogers coverage up in Stokes Bay which confirms the experience I have up at a family cottage. One simply cannot help the fact that there are no people with rooted Android phones in Central Ontario who are willing to contribute to the project. If your attitude is any indication, I can't say I'm surprised.

4G LTE is not available anywhere in rural western Ontario north and west of Orangeville, north of Kitchener and outside of London and Windsor.

The coverage mapper I pulled up ended at Shallow Lake. No idea why. How you got to Stokes Bay is a puzzle.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Loxcel

join:2012-11-06

1 edit
reply to Gone
As to the cell tower data, you can read more about how Industry Canada (IC), TAFL, Spectrum Direct, co-ooperative carriers and Loxcel all work together to provide you with timely and accurate information:

»www.loxcel.com/canada-cell-tower-faq.html

Yes there are errors. There are bound to be errors in any database of 210,000 antenna records. To reduce the error count, we apply a number of fixes to the raw data we receive from IC.

Compare this situation to the United States, where you cannot find much information at all about their 200,000+ towers (yes they have a lot of towers down there). Thankfully, the Canadian carriers are required to file monthly with IC. But, some carriers here are better than others.

Finally, we're holding off a few more days on releasing the November data, as we are working with IC to correct some errors.

Thanks and feel free to email us at kmac@loxcel.com with your questions, comments, etc.

Loxcel

join:2012-11-06
reply to RobThompson
While I have your attention, could you please answer a few questions about the Loxcel cell tower map (we consider all suggestions, and thanks in advance):

1. How did you discover the map? (Search engine, referral, etc.)

2. What features do you use most often?

3. What new features would you like to see added?

4. How often do you use the map?

5. Do you use the map for personal / work or both?

6. Would you be interested in reviewing a sample of our celltower
reports in Excel and/or Google Earth formats. Our reports cover PCS, Cellular, AWS, iDEN and Microwave services. We can aggregate across geographies / city / province, etc. We can also generate longitudinal reports, as far back as April 2009.

Thanks


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to RobThompson
Love it! I used Loxcel in an ongoing discussion with Telus as to why my cottage at Sauble is in a cellular black hole. I'll write more when I get home later today. Needless to say, it was an interesting discussion with their techs!
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

Loxcel

join:2012-11-06

1 recommendation

reply to Thane_Bitter
Is the tower floating on a barge?

Seriously, we are working on manually correcting errors like this. Stay tuned.
Expand your moderator at work


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to DKS

Re: Cell phone tower locations in Canada

said by DKS:

The coverage mapper I pulled up ended at Shallow Lake. No idea why. How you got to Stokes Bay is a puzzle.

I was looking at Rogers, not Bell.

As for LTE, there is a lot of LTE in the rural areas surrounding London and St. Thomas, along with Windsor. They certainly have more than Rogers which are more focused on the core cities. Rogers, on the other hand, has coverage in Tillsonburg of all places.

It's far from ideal, but blanket statements about no rural coverage are completely incorrect.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to DKS
said by DKS:

Thank you for raising that. We are still on 5 meg DSL, with no future plan for higher speed, to my knowledge. In fact, the local Chamber of Commerce is very upset at all the providers for giving such shoddy service to this whole area.

Isn't there a cable company up there? Rogers? No internet via cable offered?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Loxcel
said by Loxcel:

Compare this situation to the United States, where you cannot find much information at all about their 200,000+ towers (yes they have a lot of towers down there). Thankfully, the Canadian carriers are required to file monthly with IC. But, some carriers here are better than others.

Oh no doubt, the Canadian situation is far better than the US.

Still, I'd love to see some 2600MHz sites show up on map, especially since Rogers is going to be selling handsets with 2600MHz support.

Loxcel

join:2012-11-06
So far, carriers haven't submitted anything in the BRS/EBS band (2500 - 2600MHz).