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gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL
reply to Melissa2009B

Re: [Connectivity] Trying to use PhonePower on Comcast HSI - not

said by Melissa2009B:

I'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it.

You can't be serious. The link I provided has a link to the DMZ settings, which you can see here:

»screenshots.portforward.com/rout···/DMZ.htm

All you need to do is enable it and enter the IP address of your PhonePower box. You need a network tech to enter an IP address into a box?

And, I'm sorry NetFixer, but if a device requires port forwarding to work properly and it's not set than it will cause EXACTLY the problems that she is describing.

Good luck!
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

1 recommendation

said by gwbuffalo:

said by Melissa2009B:

I'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it.

You can't be serious. The link I provided has a link to the DMZ settings, which you can see here:

»screenshots.portforward.com/rout···/DMZ.htm

All you need to do is enable it and enter the IP address of your PhonePower box. You need a network tech to enter an IP address into a box?

And, I'm sorry NetFixer, but if a device requires port forwarding to work properly and it's not set than it will cause EXACTLY the problems that she is describing.

Good luck!

believe me, she's better off using Comcast's VoIP service rather than fiddling with her connections...

she claims to be some sort of a tech BEFORE, but that was years ago...


gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL

How is putting a device in the DMZ "fiddling with her connections?"
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by gwbuffalo:

How is putting a device in the DMZ "fiddling with her connections?"

let me re phrase that...

anything with tweaking and or setting up devices have been a challenge for her...

there's always the easy way but a little costlier and then there's the hard, trying to pull her hair way but cheaper options that sometimes really doesn't work right.

the KISS rule doesn't apply to her...

================

my rule of thumb has been to make sure I can setup, tweak or fix techy stuff and make sure everybody can use it without them calling me every time, if either one doesn't work, I scrap the idea and just suck up the cost.

rendrenner

join:2005-09-03
Grandville, MI
reply to Melissa2009B

what are the modem levels like? if there is packet loss, there may be an indicator if one of the levels are out of spec



gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL
reply to medbuyer

said by medbuyer:

anything with tweaking and or setting up devices have been a challenge for her...

Understood. With that said, when it's literally a couple of easy steps and she doesn't even want to try them I'd have to wonder why help is even asked for here.

Also it's amusing that she's more than willing to make the Comcast reps sound stupid with a "PACKET LOSS! PACKET LOSS!" tirade but the reality is the problem is possibly on her end. Don't throw stones at anyone (even Comcast) until you KNOW they're the problem.

Melissa, I wish you luck in getting your service up and running!

Cheers!
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by gwbuffalo:

said by medbuyer:

anything with tweaking and or setting up devices have been a challenge for her...

Understood. With that said, when it's literally a couple of easy steps and she doesn't even want to try them I'd have to wonder why help is even asked for here.

Also it's amusing that she's more than willing to make the Comcast reps sound stupid with a "PACKET LOSS! PACKET LOSS!" tirade but the reality is the problem is possibly on her end. Don't throw stones at anyone (even Comcast) until you KNOW they're the problem.

Melissa, I wish you luck in getting your service up and running!

Cheers!

i'm not throwing stones at anybody here..I'm merely stating a fact that when it comes to techy stuff, people have tried to help her before but she always tries to find a way how to complicate things for her...

»Wireless fax module? What's this called?

»[Speed] May have to switch to Comcast

»[Rant] I want to add Voice but they won't let me!

she had a perfect system for her before....her cost cutting measures coupled with this is how I want it to work kinda seemed didn't work at all.

sometimes, when you cut costs, you may have to adjust the way you do things as well. specially when your business depends on it.


gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL

said by medbuyer:

i'm not throwing stones at anybody here..I'm merely stating a fact that when it comes to techy stuff, people have tried to help her before but she always tries to find a way how to complicate things for her...

I was referring to her original post in the thread with the "throwing stones" comment, not to any of your posts. Sorry for the confusion.

It appears that the PhonePower box is similar to the Ooma box I have in that it lets you plug it in directly to the modem with a passthrough to a router, allowing the phone to have priority.

Melissa, since you're not using the phone part of the modem / router combo you have you'd be better off getting a dedicated modem and plugging the VoIP device in as shown here:

»www.phonepower.com/wiki/Physical···am_HT502

This way you can use the other router you said you already have and there would be no phone setup to be done since the device is first in line before anything else.

Again, good luck!
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com

Melissa2009B

join:2009-12-27
Denver, CO
reply to medbuyer

said by medbuyer:

said by gwbuffalo:

said by Melissa2009B:

I'm not a network tech and it sounds like we need one. I have no idea about all this, and how to fix it without risking hosing it.

You can't be serious. The link I provided has a link to the DMZ settings, which you can see here:

»screenshots.portforward.com/rout···/DMZ.htm

All you need to do is enable it and enter the IP address of your PhonePower box. You need a network tech to enter an IP address into a box?

And, I'm sorry NetFixer, but if a device requires port forwarding to work properly and it's not set than it will cause EXACTLY the problems that she is describing.

Good luck!

believe me, she's better off using Comcast's VoIP service rather than fiddling with her connections...

she claims to be some sort of a tech BEFORE, but that was years ago...

Yes, I was an Electronics Tehnician with an ASET ( Associate in Science in Electronics Technology ) from 1969 to around 1995, NOT a network tech

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by Melissa2009B:

Yes, I was an Electronics Tehnician with an ASET ( Associate in Science in Electronics Technology ) from 1969 to around 1995, NOT a network tech

Melissa2009B See Profile I understand what the difference is but both aren't that too far from each other too...

I used to be called an electronics tech too doing refurbishing on networking equipment.

Networking isn't really that complicated specially when you've got the background in electronics.

Melissa2009B

join:2009-12-27
Denver, CO

Yeah I understand, but there's also the aspect that someone mentioned, that PhonePower sends packets out over the net and Comcast has their own net for them, which sounds like it gives better quality.

That and the fact that I've been extremely depressed since Tuesday.


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by Melissa2009B:

Yeah I understand, but there's also the aspect that someone mentioned, that PhonePower sends packets out over the net and Comcast has their own net for them, which sounds like it gives better quality.

packet loss? 1st graph attached showed a 6% packet loss, the other graph showed 2.7% packet loss.....did you ever check everything else?

if I were in your shoes, I'd simplify things even if it means being a little costlier, that way, you won't get depressed or blood shooting out of your eyes because of either you don't understand or the other party doesn't understand things.


gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL
reply to Melissa2009B

said by Melissa2009B:

Yeah I understand, but there's also the aspect that someone mentioned, that PhonePower sends packets out over the net and Comcast has their own net for them, which sounds like it gives better quality.

That and the fact that I've been extremely depressed since Tuesday.

You have to make your own choices, but I've actually been a lot happier with the quality / features I've gotten with Ooma (similar I'm guessing to PhonePower as it's a 3rd party box) than I ever was with Comcast's phone system.
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com

Melissa2009B

join:2009-12-27
Denver, CO

If I thought it was just a matter of learning to make the adjustments, I'd learn it. But people in the forum were telling me that things would run a lot faster and smoother if I got a separate router too, and I actually bought a great one, but haven't installed it. Why? Because essentially, Comcast has us by the short hairs with this stuff. If I install a separate router, then put it in bridge mode ( which people here suggested doing ) then I have ANY problems AT ALL, Comcast simply says "sorry" and won't support it.

My internet for my little home business here would be down and I'd be screwed. Same with this phone thing. If I thought it was just a matter of getting the settings fixed, I'd learn how. But the first thing that happens is a urinating contest between PhonePower and Comcast, with each pointing the finger at each other.

PhonePower says there's 6% packet loss which is causing the chopiness, echoes ( I suppose ) and delays in signal. I talk and someone hears me a couple of seconds later in New York, and then it gets all confusing as we practically have to say "over" like people do on the radio, so we don't chop up each others conversations.

I GUESS ( but don't know ) that it's because PhonePower ( and others ) send packets out over the internet, through every Tom Dick and Harry's servers. But Comcast, from what I understand, has their own private network and that doesn't happen.

AND if they install their own Voice service, THEY MUST support it, no finger pointing is possible.

I AM wondering however, if I request it, if they might install a separate modem and router of their own, instead of this combined gateway, and if that might work even better?


mike34
Premium
join:2004-07-17
Central City, PA
reply to Melissa2009B

said by Melissa2009B:

Guess we're gonna have to send back the PhonePower box and get Comcast Voice, so it's supported.

Melissa, this has dragged on much too long. Just do it. Call Comcast, agree to their nominal ($35.00) installation charge, let them set everything up for you and stop worrying yourself sick over it.

I consulted on matters like this for years, starting in the early 80's, and always maintained the principal that I didn't expect, nor want, my clients to be geeks. That's what I was there for.

Comcast will take care of you and be there on rare occasions that something goes wrong. 99% of their customers have never heard of BBR and really don't have any reason to come in here.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to Melissa2009B


Modem/Gateway

PhonePower

Back of Phone Adapter
Ok, lets back up a second here. I've read everything in this thread, and I have a few questions about some of the things I read.

Back on 11-06-2012, you indicated that you had a TG862G

said by Melissa2009B:

Don't know the settings - Comcast installed the gateway - a TG862G. I actually bought a separate router but since they won't support it and I'm not sure it would make any difference, haven't installed it.

This should match the Modem/Gateway I have pictured above. I got that directly from the Manual, which I found via google. Link is below for the PDF (may come in handy later).

»www.arrisi.com/support/documenta···d1-3.pdf

This is actually an all-in-one device. You can connect multiple computers / devices to it (it has a built-in router), as well as a phone system, as it also has that built in as well.

Since you have PhonePower, they give you a free "two line adapter" (see picture #2 and #3). You really don't need to be renting from Comcast a device for Phone Service, as you are not using their service (Comcast Digital Voice).

Not to mention, you said you have your own router, but did not hook it up. Adding that to the current setup would be a lot of extra work on your part. You would have to try to contact Comcast and get them to put your rented device (the TG826) into "bridge mode" and hope you get the right support person who knows what you are talking about.

It would just be easier if you returned that unit (the TG826) back to Comcast, and either rent a standard modem from them, or go to the store and buy one (if you don't want to be charged the monthly rental fee). There are a lot of people on here that could help you decide which modem would be best. Personally for your setup, what you are currently renting is not the best option.

Once you get a standard modem, then all you should have to do is plug your PhonePower unit into the modem, and then plug your own router into the back of your PhonePower unit.

From what I can tell, your PhonePower unit would act as a sort of "pass through" for normal Internet traffic to the rest of your network (Laptops, Desktops, wireless devices, etc).

In doing so, that would put your PhonePower device as the first thing in line to the internet (outside of your cable modem), which should not make a difference. You will probably see your phone service quality increase, and not have to worry about changes to router settings to get it to work better.

IF you do have problems, then it turns into a signal issue, and that is something Comcast will fix, regardless of what you are using the service for. The Cable Modem will allow you to view the Signal Levels, and if they are out of spec, you can work with Comcast to get them to fix the issues (or post here, and I know we'll all be glad to help out).

EDIT: I noticed that you did make a note to a different device from Comcast in your last post

said by Melissa2009B:

I AM wondering however, if I request it, if they might install a separate modem and router of their own, instead of this combined gateway, and if that might work even better?

I totally feel that is the best option at this point (as I said in my post). I just wanted to point out that you were thinking the same thing.

--Brian


NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to Melissa2009B

said by Melissa2009B:

PhonePower says there's 6% packet loss which is causing the chopiness, echoes ( I suppose ) and delays in signal. I talk and someone hears me a couple of seconds later in New York, and then it gets all confusing as we practically have to say "over" like people do on the radio, so we don't chop up each others conversations.

I don't think that you mentioned the long transmission delay previously. That is a classic buffer bloat symptom ( see my post here for an explanation: »Re: [Speed] Comcast Business Class Speed Upgraded in California ), and getting around that would require some heavy QoS/rate limiting on your end (and that would probably require you to use a separate standard cable modem with an external router or switch capable of doing that). The "VWAN" segment in the network diagram below shows where I do rate limiting in my Netgear GS108e switch on my network to compensate for the excessive buffering that is caused by the combination of Comcast's PowerBoost and upstream channel bonding. And no, I am not suggesting that you do this, I am just showing you how I have to compensate for that long delay in order to be able to use my Vonage VoIP service without problems. And FWIW, since Comcast would not use PowerBoost or channel bonding for their CDV, you should not have a problem with that long transmission delay if you switch to CDV. When I temporarily used an old DOCSIS 2 modem for testing (which does not support bonded channels), I no longer had the excessive buffering symptom.

If you would like to see if your connection is prone to buffer bloat, the ICSI Netalyzr test can be run from here: »netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/m=comcast




said by Melissa2009B:

I AM wondering however, if I request it, if they might install a separate modem and router of their own, instead of this combined gateway, and if that might work even better?

Up until about a year ago, Comcast did have a plan to provide a standalone wireless router to customers who rented standard cable modems from them (I still use the Netgear router that they supplied to me), but that plan has been discontinued and they now supply the integrated gateway boxes instead. And even when they did supply the standalone routers, they did not in any way support them; they only supplied the physical box, and it was the customer's responsibility to do all configuration and troubleshooting.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

Melissa2009B

join:2009-12-27
Denver, CO

Dear ...,

I sincerely apologize for the difficulties that you are having with your service right now.

I have checked your phone adapter remotely and it appears that it's behind a firewall.

Firewalls, especially those employing SPI, can sometimes interfere with your service. They can prevent the phone adapter from registering with our network, produce one-way audio on calls, and block incoming calls. These problems can be avoided two different ways to arrange your network configuration so that the phone adapter is located outside of the firewall or port forward our traffic to the phone adapter.

I strongly suggest to give us a call for assistance before switching to Comcast Voice.


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

said by Melissa2009B:

Dear ...,

I sincerely apologize for the difficulties that you are having with your service right now.

I have checked your phone adapter remotely and it appears that it's behind a firewall.

Firewalls, especially those employing SPI, can sometimes interfere with your service. They can prevent the phone adapter from registering with our network, produce one-way audio on calls, and block incoming calls. These problems can be avoided two different ways to arrange your network configuration so that the phone adapter is located outside of the firewall or port forward our traffic to the phone adapter.

I strongly suggest to give us a call for assistance before switching to Comcast Voice.

interesting...who sent you that?

let me guess...phonepower?

so did you try disabling the firewall or port forwarding?


NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Comcast
reply to Melissa2009B

That sounds like familiar advice. Unfortunately, I don't think that your Comcast gateway has a remote access feature that is accessible to anyone but a Comcast CSR (I know that my SMC gateway was only accessible remotely by Comcast), so PhonePower's "assistance" will likely mean that you will need to make the changes in your gateway's firewall yourself. It's not really that difficult, and even if you screw something up, a factory default reset will allow you to start over (just make sure that you have the WiFi security passphrase saved somewhere in case you do need to do a factory default reset on the gateway). Seriously, the worst thing that can happen is that the firewall changes don't help with the VoIP problems.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.



gwbuffalo

join:2001-12-08
Mokena, IL

said by NetFixer:

That sounds like familiar advice.

It is familiar advice, it is exactly what I told her four days ago when you replied with "...the problems you are describing don't sound like anything that port forwarding would fix..." I guess they were exactly the kinds of problems that port forwarding / getting out from behind the firewall will fix!

Melissa, you need to complete two simple steps to get this to work. I have no doubt in my mind that anyone even with ZERO networking experience could easily complete both.

STEP 1: Configure your PhonePower device to have a static IP address.

»www.phonepower.com/wiki/How_to_c···_Address

One you complete those instructions, your static IP will be 192.168.1.200

STEP 2: Put that static IP address into the Arris' DMZ.

»screenshots.portforward.com/rout···/DMZ.htm

Arris control panel -> Advanced -> DMZ

Click "Enable" and enter the static IP you just set on the PhonePower box 192.168.1.200

If you did it correctly, then your phone issues should now be resolved.

With that said, as someone else pointed out that Arris is really only used for people that have Comcast's VoIP service and in the long run you may just want to buy a DOCSIS 3 modem (about $80 at places like Amazon or Costco) and dump the $7 a month rental fee that Comcast charges and break out the router that you have. The nice thing about your router is that it most likely out of the box has remote access features so people can help you change settings remotely.
--
»twitter.com/darrenoneill »alt-this.com


NetFixer
Snarl For The Camera Please
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Comcast

2 edits

said by gwbuffalo:

said by NetFixer:

That sounds like familiar advice.

It is familiar advice, it is exactly what I told her four days ago when you replied with "...the problems you are describing don't sound like anything that port forwarding would fix..." I guess they were exactly the kinds of problems that port forwarding / getting out from behind the firewall will fix!

And unless the PhonePower ATA is not properly establishing a session, it is still my opinion that DMZ or port forwarding will not fix the OP's VoIP problems. Her problem sounds more like a QoS or rate limiting problem to me than it does a SIP problem. However, on the off chance that the PhonePower ATA's SIP logic is defective, it certainly can't hurt to try using a DMZ or port forwarding just to see if it might help.

If the OP can find the courage to try to setup port forwarding, or a DMZ, then perhaps she can also see if her cable gateway box also has QoS and/or rate limiting settings. Based on the reported symptoms, I suspect that if the OP runs the ICSI Netalyzr test to verify if she has excessive buffering, and then runs the ShaperProbe test and sets up outbound rate limiting to a value just slightly higher than the base upstream bandwidth shown by ShaperProbe, that might have a chance to correct her VoIP problems. If I did not do that, my Vonage service would have the same long transmission delays that the OP describes (and my Vonage adapter is not behind a router or firewall). In the OP's case (since she is also doing video streaming over the gateway's WiFi), she might possibly need both rate limiting to compensate for excessive upstream buffering, and QoS to give her PhonePower ATA priority over other traffic (this is of course assuming that her Comcast supplied gateway gives the customer access to those settings...Comcast has a tendency to lock down their gateway boxes).
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.


guhuna
5149.5
Premium
join:2001-03-31
Clayton, CA
reply to Melissa2009B

Funny, I have PP and have absolutely so issues what so ever. Then again the adapter is in DMZ.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA

said by guhuna:

Funny, I have PP and have absolutely so issues what so ever. Then again the adapter is in DMZ.

I have PP as well, and had to set up 1:1 Nat on my router (linux box) so that the grandstream would work reliably. Have not had any issues with it since configuring it (correctly.)

It does require some setup, which comcast (for only 2-3x a month more) will do for you with CDV
--
My place : »www.schettino.us