Topic 'Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system' in forum 'World of Warcraft' - dslreports.com

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:48:56 EDT

Jobbie posted :

said by Jobbie:

I don't think LFR is a good source for valor heroics give you 80 the first and 30 the next ones for 15 minutes.

Thanks for the clarification, even better.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:40:31 EDT

mettachain posted :

said by Jobbie:

I don't think LFR is a good source for valor heroics give you 80 the first and 30 the next ones for 15 minutes.

40
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Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:28:02 EDT

Jobbie posted : I don't think LFR is a good source for valor heroics give you 80 the first and 30 the next ones for 15 minutes.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:23:17 EDT

cigtyme posted : Yep speed of the lfr makes the 90 Valor come easy. You know if you feel like doing it again, you get 45 valor every other time you do it.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:17:37 EDT

Jobbie posted : We queue with 2 tanks a healer and a dps, having the tanks able to communicate is just awesome and makes the group go a lot faster.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:13:44 EDT

anon posted : Cig, I would go but did do the 1st three new ones and the first three olds already, just have middle 3 left. On a side note, on a current hot streak of being 0 for 21 on drops in lfr

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Wed, 07 Nov 2012 04:20:30 EDT

stonhinge posted : My raid has been queuing for LFR as a group while we wait for the last couple of people to finish gearing up. Personally, i don't queue as a tank solo for LFR because the other tank is a totally unknown quality. Thankfully, i'm a monk, so I can manage things like that and still get appropriate gear.

the bonus to queuing as a group is that you still feel like raiding, and you've got a group of people that is willing to get it cleared. It strengthens the group's output as a whole because you've already got people who are actively working together, and most likely have voice communications set up.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:44:31 EDT

cigtyme posted : One of my pet peaves as RL and GM is getting people, like my self, that groan when it is plate or mail, that i cant use, to understand the guild concept. If it increases threat, dmg, or heals, it benefits the other 9 or 24 raiders.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:40:19 EDT

Venom1 posted :

said by Nick D:

If the 25 members did the runs individually, you'd have the same (statistical) amount of loot in the raid team as if you did one run of 25 players, because the presence of other people neither helps nor hurts your loot chances.

The drops can't be traded, y'know.

dark... break out the calculator on this
you are right, drops cannot be traded. but I'm more concerned with loot going to our group than to any one individual.

while this does very little to increase the output of the individual within a normal raid, it strengthens the group's output as a whole. it's a holistic approach to gearing. think of it as loot council without the council.

edit: i totally understand what you are saying and statistically you are correct. /math respect

--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:36:38 EDT

Nick D posted : It's a 15% chance, for the record. Per kill, and per coin.

I was clarifying for Venom/Scaith.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:36:24 EDT

Immer posted : I still think its a great idea... something different to do. I'm all for bolstering a community feel.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:33:23 EDT

cigtyme posted :

said by Nick D:

Yes i started this thread with the mindset of 5 pieces per 25 people. Now each person rolls. It is really not even a 4% chance. All 25 people could win or lose. I don't know Blizzards numbers. All we would be doing is insuring no asshats, and a smothe run.
--
Cigtyme - Alliance - Galakrond - Draneri Arcane Mage
GM and RL of Exalted with Chuck Norris (Before damn Commercial)
"What the hell man, wipe it, we fricken can't heal this damn thing to death"

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:30:35 EDT

Nick D posted : If the 25 members did the runs individually, you'd have the same (statistical) amount of loot in the raid team as if you did one run of 25 players, because the presence of other people neither helps nor hurts your loot chances.

The drops can't be traded, y'know.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:27:43 EDT

Venom1 posted :

said by clawfury:

That's true, Eumaeus. However anyone wants to run a combined group is their business. I'm just sitting here trying to wrap my engineer's brain around the idea of how in the hell you get more gear in the guild by running together vs. separately. *mind melts*

you are looking at it from an individual chance pov. we are looking at keeping the gear in the guild/guilds. its ok it it goes to a "sister guild." in the end we are helping friends, not carrying strangers. if we fill up all 25 spots we guarantee that the loot stays within the combined guilds.

sorry i cant show my work, i only understood the theory behind the calculus, and that was some 12 years ago.
--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 15:47:26 EDT

clawfury posted : Yep :) I think for the chance of having no asshats, sig, it would be totally worth it :D Good luck!

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 15:44:33 EDT

cigtyme posted : Well i stand corrected. Everyone just has a 4% chance. I was wrong. I thought 5 pieces dropped and everyone could use a coin for an extra chance. Now there is a roll char by char, so there is no gear benefit to LFR for 2 guilds. Just the No Asshats and it will go smoother hypothetically. LOL

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:56:42 EDT

anon posted : Yesterday, I did this... tank ques are usually longer ~30 mins (if you que tank/dps they force you to be a tank and you still wait 30mins.) just dps ques 1 min. So qued as a dps... stayed in prot... did this for all 6 bosses in LFR... got 3 peices of tank gear and two legendary quest items. Smiled to myself that ironicly this is was was happening in LFG with the dps queing as a tank to get fast que times... pay back is a b*tch dps.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:57:39 EDT

Jobbie posted : Again, the mechanics and damage have been dumbed down that as long as you reach the required dps for that encounter you will win and get your chance at loot for your personal roll + your elder coin.

If you don't you are in trouble.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:46:39 EDT

Arthritis posted :

said by clawfury:

If someone really wants tank gear that bad, go Queue alone. You have a 4% chance of getting tank gear regardless of who you are grouped with.

Yes and no.

Yes, if you finish the whole encounter you have that 4% chance to get tank gear. Unfortunately, the chances of you actually finishing the run are lower in LFR due to self appointed LFR police.

If you que as dps and go tank spec in LFR with non guildies you risk removal regardless of your performance. Certain players will feel a sense of obligation to try to remove you from the group. Sadly, you can have better dps numbers, better understanding, positioning, awareness. etc, etc.

I have no idea how long dps wait for LFR, but why risk the wait when you can insta que for the same instance with friends, get a more coordinated effort at gear for two guilds and avoid all the asshats with a God complex.

Seems like win / win, even for the LFR asshats.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:38:24 EDT

Jobbie posted :

said by DarkLogix:

a Pug of HoF LFR will likely be painful, a premade will likely kill stuff faster.

I will experience that tonight, when I try to tank HoF on LFR.

/scared
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:30:10 EDT

DarkLogix posted : a Pug of HoF LFR will likely be painful, a premade will likely kill stuff faster.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:27:58 EDT

clawfury posted : That's true, Eumaeus. However anyone wants to run a combined group is their business. I'm just sitting here trying to wrap my engineer's brain around the idea of how in the hell you get more gear in the guild by running together vs. separately. *mind melts*

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:26:36 EDT

Eumaeus posted : Let's be honest, a good player taking a DPS slot but playing in tanking spec will often out-DPS the bottom 5-6 players anyway.

Still seeing people in the 22-25k range every time I do LFR.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:26:21 EDT

DarkLogix posted : I agree is the DPS is good its fine, if not time for dps to be dps.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:24:45 EDT

Jobbie posted :

said by DarkLogix:

in LFR if your aren't in tank spec you have 0% chance

though tank gear and Mdps gear does overlap some.

Yeah but it requires you doing the fight in tank spec, if you have a dps slot, I really hope you have enough total dps to burn down a boss. I even see it on LFR when I queue as a tank alone, I see 3 dps running in bear/blood/withshield trying to blend in.

If we down the boss is fine but if we wipe because of lack of damage is vote kick time.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:21:57 EDT

DarkLogix posted : in LFR if your aren't in tank spec you have 0% chance

though tank gear and Mdps gear does overlap some.

the LFR loot system is you will only ever get gear for your spec and class Mdps and tank might share some gear but dodge gear isn't Mdps gear so if your speced into a mdps spec you will not get dodge gear.

As with the coins you only have a shot at the part of the loot table that wow says is for your spec.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:20:53 EDT

clawfury posted : If someone really wants tank gear that bad, go Queue alone. You have a 4% chance of getting tank gear regardless of who you are grouped with.

EDIT: No point in gimping your group with 4 tanks in tank spec, when you aren't changing the end result.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:19:14 EDT

DarkLogix posted : In LFR if you want tank gear you have to be iin tank spec, LFR will only give you loot proper to your spec.

just need to be aware of it, I know we once did part 2 bosses 1 and 2 with sanc in tank spec but marked as a healer.

it went so smooth that no one noticed. (this was when he was first building a tank set.)

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:13:45 EDT

Jobbie posted : The loot rolls are personal now, if you roll with a tank spec on lfr you will be gimping your dps for no reason, even when lfr bosses are a joke you can break some encounters if you don't plan this properly. See Elegon.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:04:54 EDT

Eumaeus posted :

said by cigtyme:

So if i run by my self 1/25 shot at gear. Has a 4% chance gear stays in the guild. As Opposed to 20/25 people(10/25 per guild) 80% it stays in the 2 guilds, or 40% it stays in my guild. Yea there are clearly no advantages.

I think what those above mean is that there is not a set number of people receiving loot in LFR when a boss dies. It isn't that 5 of 25 people will get loot, it's that each person in the raid has X% chance to receive loot independant of one another.

So in reality it is a social / player skill reliability issue to queue up with friends moreso than to ensure your raid gets gear.
--
Eumaeus - Moonkin Druid
GM of Lux ex Tenebris - Sargeras | Alliance
Progress: 4/6 MSV
T/W 7:45pm-11pm EST - Recruiting 1 RDPS

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:52:45 EDT

Immer posted : yeah, just set up a raid and click that check mark that gives everyone "Assist".

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:47:44 EDT

cigtyme posted : So if i run by my self 1/25 shot at gear. Has a 4% chance gear stays in the guild. As Opposed to 20/25 people(10/25 per guild) 80% it stays in the 2 guilds, or 40% it stays in my guild. Yea there are clearly no advantages.

Immer, i think i have to invite you, or vice versa, then give permission to invite, then we both just invite our peoples.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:38:00 EDT

Immer posted :

said by clawfury:

There's no point to this with the new loot system. Who is in the group has absolutely no effect on the drops. It's individual. Doing it just for social fun though, that's cool. But don't think it will affecty our loot distribution.

sure there is (»[Raiding] Mean People Suck

Also, it allows us to do what Venom1 suggested, running with 4 people in tank spec so they all have a shot at loot while running with friends.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Good times with Great people in the Best way to spend $15/mo.

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:36:11 EDT

clawfury posted : There's no point to this with the new loot system. Who is in the group has absolutely no effect on the drops. It's individual. Doing it just for social fun though, that's cool. But don't think it will affect your loot distribution.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:34:42 EDT

cigtyme posted : That is good to know. I am not being to bold by asking this, i just think that us 2 together, would keep more gear in our ranks, instead of joe Pug.

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:27:45 EDT

Venom1 posted : as far as "rotating tanks" goes, we dont have to bother, just have them q as dps. if one of the "not actually tanking" tanks wins loot, it will see them in tank spec and give them an item for that spec.

I did that 2 lfr's ago. queued as heals, jumped around in tank spec and gear. I did pick up adds that were running around in the caster group, so i wasn't totally dead weight. Got tanking shoulders out of it...
--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.

[Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:19:32 EDT

cigtyme posted : Me and Immer have been talking about combining my 10 man and his 10 man(maybe a few others that or 90 as well), aand doing LFR together to optimize loot drops. I have him as a Real ID friend. If i create a group of 12 and he creates a raid of 13, could i invite him and all 13 of his people join my group? Or do all of his raid members need to have my Real ID? Just asking, i see a way of at least maximizing our 2 guilds chances at drops from LFR, also it would go alot faster. 4 tanks would be an issue, but they could rotate dung. Our 2 first half, your 2 second half, or look where certain things drop for whichever tanks are there to maximize who gets what. Don't hate just asking.

Cig
--
Cigtyme - Alliance - Galakrond - Draneri Arcane Mage
GM and RL of Exalted with Chuck Norris (Before damn Commercial)
"What the hell man, wipe it, we fricken can't heal this damn thing to death"