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Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5
reply to Eumaeus

Re: [Raiding] Real ID and the LFR system

The loot rolls are personal now, if you roll with a tank spec on lfr you will be gimping your dps for no reason, even when lfr bosses are a joke you can break some encounters if you don't plan this properly. See Elegon.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
In LFR if you want tank gear you have to be iin tank spec, LFR will only give you loot proper to your spec.

just need to be aware of it, I know we once did part 2 bosses 1 and 2 with sanc in tank spec but marked as a healer.

it went so smooth that no one noticed. (this was when he was first building a tank set.)

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
If someone really wants tank gear that bad, go Queue alone. You have a 4% chance of getting tank gear regardless of who you are grouped with.

EDIT: No point in gimping your group with 4 tanks in tank spec, when you aren't changing the end result.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
in LFR if your aren't in tank spec you have 0% chance

though tank gear and Mdps gear does overlap some.

the LFR loot system is you will only ever get gear for your spec and class Mdps and tank might share some gear but dodge gear isn't Mdps gear so if your speced into a mdps spec you will not get dodge gear.

As with the coins you only have a shot at the part of the loot table that wow says is for your spec.


Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5
said by DarkLogix:

in LFR if your aren't in tank spec you have 0% chance

though tank gear and Mdps gear does overlap some.

Yeah but it requires you doing the fight in tank spec, if you have a dps slot, I really hope you have enough total dps to burn down a boss. I even see it on LFR when I queue as a tank alone, I see 3 dps running in bear/blood/withshield trying to blend in.

If we down the boss is fine but if we wipe because of lack of damage is vote kick time.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
I agree is the DPS is good its fine, if not time for dps to be dps.


Eumaeus

join:2009-12-10
Yorktown, VA
reply to Jobbie
Let's be honest, a good player taking a DPS slot but playing in tanking spec will often out-DPS the bottom 5-6 players anyway.

Still seeing people in the 22-25k range every time I do LFR.

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
That's true, Eumaeus. However anyone wants to run a combined group is their business. I'm just sitting here trying to wrap my engineer's brain around the idea of how in the hell you get more gear in the guild by running together vs. separately. *mind melts*


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
a Pug of HoF LFR will likely be painful, a premade will likely kill stuff faster.


Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5
said by DarkLogix:

a Pug of HoF LFR will likely be painful, a premade will likely kill stuff faster.

I will experience that tonight, when I try to tank HoF on LFR.

/scared
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.


Arthritis

join:2011-10-20
Canada
reply to clawfury
said by clawfury:

If someone really wants tank gear that bad, go Queue alone. You have a 4% chance of getting tank gear regardless of who you are grouped with.

Yes and no.

Yes, if you finish the whole encounter you have that 4% chance to get tank gear. Unfortunately, the chances of you actually finishing the run are lower in LFR due to self appointed LFR police.

If you que as dps and go tank spec in LFR with non guildies you risk removal regardless of your performance. Certain players will feel a sense of obligation to try to remove you from the group. Sadly, you can have better dps numbers, better understanding, positioning, awareness. etc, etc.

I have no idea how long dps wait for LFR, but why risk the wait when you can insta que for the same instance with friends, get a more coordinated effort at gear for two guilds and avoid all the asshats with a God complex.

Seems like win / win, even for the LFR asshats.


Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5
Again, the mechanics and damage have been dumbed down that as long as you reach the required dps for that encounter you will win and get your chance at loot for your personal roll + your elder coin.

If you don't you are in trouble.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.


Gainsborough

@johnstonesupply.com
Yesterday, I did this... tank ques are usually longer ~30 mins (if you que tank/dps they force you to be a tank and you still wait 30mins.) just dps ques 1 min. So qued as a dps... stayed in prot... did this for all 6 bosses in LFR... got 3 peices of tank gear and two legendary quest items. Smiled to myself that ironicly this is was was happening in LFG with the dps queing as a tank to get fast que times... pay back is a b*tch dps.

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
Well i stand corrected. Everyone just has a 4% chance. I was wrong. I thought 5 pieces dropped and everyone could use a coin for an extra chance. Now there is a roll char by char, so there is no gear benefit to LFR for 2 guilds. Just the No Asshats and it will go smoother hypothetically. LOL

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
Yep I think for the chance of having no asshats, sig, it would be totally worth it Good luck!


Venom1

join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA
reply to clawfury
said by clawfury:

That's true, Eumaeus. However anyone wants to run a combined group is their business. I'm just sitting here trying to wrap my engineer's brain around the idea of how in the hell you get more gear in the guild by running together vs. separately. *mind melts*

you are looking at it from an individual chance pov. we are looking at keeping the gear in the guild/guilds. its ok it it goes to a "sister guild." in the end we are helping friends, not carrying strangers. if we fill up all 25 spots we guarantee that the loot stays within the combined guilds.

sorry i cant show my work, i only understood the theory behind the calculus, and that was some 12 years ago.
--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
If the 25 members did the runs individually, you'd have the same (statistical) amount of loot in the raid team as if you did one run of 25 players, because the presence of other people neither helps nor hurts your loot chances.

The drops can't be traded, y'know.

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
said by Nick D:

If the 25 members did the runs individually, you'd have the same (statistical) amount of loot in the raid team as if you did one run of 25 players, because the presence of other people neither helps nor hurts your loot chances.

The drops can't be traded, y'know.

Yes i started this thread with the mindset of 5 pieces per 25 people. Now each person rolls. It is really not even a 4% chance. All 25 people could win or lose. I don't know Blizzards numbers. All we would be doing is insuring no asshats, and a smothe run.
--
Cigtyme - Alliance - Galakrond - Draneri Arcane Mage
GM and RL of Exalted with Chuck Norris (Before damn Commercial)
"What the hell man, wipe it, we fricken can't heal this damn thing to death"


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
I still think its a great idea... something different to do. I'm all for bolstering a community feel.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to cigtyme
It's a 15% chance, for the record. Per kill, and per coin.

I was clarifying for Venom/Scaith.


Venom1

join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA
reply to Nick D
said by Nick D:

If the 25 members did the runs individually, you'd have the same (statistical) amount of loot in the raid team as if you did one run of 25 players, because the presence of other people neither helps nor hurts your loot chances.

The drops can't be traded, y'know.

dark... break out the calculator on this
you are right, drops cannot be traded. but I'm more concerned with loot going to our group than to any one individual.

while this does very little to increase the output of the individual within a normal raid, it strengthens the group's output as a whole. it's a holistic approach to gearing. think of it as loot council without the council.

edit: i totally understand what you are saying and statistically you are correct. /math respect

--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
One of my pet peaves as RL and GM is getting people, like my self, that groan when it is plate or mail, that i cant use, to understand the guild concept. If it increases threat, dmg, or heals, it benefits the other 9 or 24 raiders.


stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
reply to Venom1
My raid has been queuing for LFR as a group while we wait for the last couple of people to finish gearing up. Personally, i don't queue as a tank solo for LFR because the other tank is a totally unknown quality. Thankfully, i'm a monk, so I can manage things like that and still get appropriate gear.

the bonus to queuing as a group is that you still feel like raiding, and you've got a group of people that is willing to get it cleared. It strengthens the group's output as a whole because you've already got people who are actively working together, and most likely have voice communications set up.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.


Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5
We queue with 2 tanks a healer and a dps, having the tanks able to communicate is just awesome and makes the group go a lot faster.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.