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JFinMtl

@174.95.231.x
reply to alkizmo

Re: Hopeless or possible? HDTV OTA

live in Longueuil, and with this antenna

»www.master-vox.com/index_en.html···AB8BBE8D

on my 25' roof, I get ~20 channels.

OK, I added a simple signal amplifier (dont know if it really helps).

Ur looking for PBS, CBS, NBC & FOX ?

The antenna can point in 2 directions.

Mine is oriented one side to Mtl (for local TV), and other side towards Adirondaks (for the US TV)

200$ invested (antenna + wiring)...well worth it, coz no cable monthly fee ))



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

»www.avsforum.com/f/?s=

85 miles is a stretch. I'm doing 47 mostly over water with a Channel Master 4228 and Channel Master Amp.

I agree, not only do you have to battle line of sight (LOS), but also tropospheric propagation, as well as the curvature of the earth. The higher your antenna the better the reach but again the earth's curve is going to be a PITA.
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You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect.
Twitter:Merv Chat:irc.teksavvy.ca


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to JFinMtl




That's an impressive antenna and a good price. I paid that much for my CM-4228 although it was several years ago.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

said by fartness:

Buy both and return one?

One of them is from a store with no return unless defective (exchange only) policy.

Also I'd rather not be playing on my roof switching back and forth between two antennas :P
AND, the tree doesn't have leaves anymore at this time of the year, so I wouldn't be able to test how they behave differently in summer time.

you bought from that store near the bar b barn eh:P

over here on the south shore im able to get WPTZ, WCAX, WETK, WFFF and WVNY if i point my rotor at mount mansfield, I never looked on a map where the transmitters are but i can get WCFE when i point at the adirondacks, i think they are still at tupper lake, also on a clear day i can sometimes get WMTW if i play with the rotor

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to JFinMtl

said by JFinMtl :

live in Longueuil, and with this antenna

»www.master-vox.com/index_en.html···AB8BBE8D

on my 25' roof, I get ~20 channels.

OK, I added a simple signal amplifier (dont know if it really helps).

Ur looking for PBS, CBS, NBC & FOX ?

The antenna can point in 2 directions.

Mine is oriented one side to Mtl (for local TV), and other side towards Adirondaks (for the US TV)

200$ invested (antenna + wiring)...well worth it, coz no cable monthly fee ))

ive been meaning to check out that store, drive by it often

resare

join:2012-11-07
Greenfield Park, QC

its like our "Addison" on the South Shore



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

Here's a great pre-amp although it may be a little pricy.

Research Communications LTD, RF Amps

I have one.

However, it is sensitive to lightning. Mine was fried in a nearby lightning strike and it cost $30 to fix including postage.

Kitztech.com also makes good amps. A friend of mine (lives in your area Jack) has one.

The low noise preamp is phenomenal. It pulls stuff out of the air you didn't even know was there. Of course you must have some signal to work with but it is much better than channel master, winegard or any of the other consumer amps.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

»www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp···076ecc4a

The target stations are the ones in yellow @ 143 degrees.
The other ones above at 91 degrees are very local, so no issues with a smaller antenna.

Tree removal isn't really something I'd do just to get free OTA. I'm not that desperate to get OTA (I was willing to just give up)

That actually isn't bad. You should be able to get that with a good rooftop antenna and a preamp.

I would recommend the 4 bay bowties. Channel Master and Winegard makes some good ones. I have the old style channel master 4228 as I mentioned.

The Antennas Direct 91XG will do good as well but yagi-corner reflector antennas tend to favor the higher channels more.

Also you have one station (channel 13 real, 22.1 virt) on VHF so you need a VHF antenna. The CM4228 may work but I would recommend a Winegard YA1713 yagi. You'd need a combiner as well such as the UVSJ by pico macom.

Solidsignal.com is my goto place for antenna supplies.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to alkizmo

Look at what I have to deal with:

Antenna on tower:

»www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp···9ae59984

Antenna at roof height:

»www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp···38a539b7

If aimed properly I can get most of what is on the report.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

The Antennas Direct 91XG will do good as well but yagi-corner reflector antennas tend to favor the higher channels more.

Also you have one station (channel 13 real, 22.1 virt) on VHF so you need a VHF antenna. The CM4228 may work but I would recommend a Winegard YA1713 yagi. You'd need a combiner as well such as the UVSJ by pico macom.

Solidsignal.com is my goto place for antenna supplies.

Well that ONE channel isn't going to make me buy a dedicated VHF antenna. I already need a second VHF/UHF antenna to pick up the local stations at 91 degrees.

However if you do say the CM4228 would work nicely to get the channels 85 miles away (143 degrees), then maybe it can pick up ABC. If it doesn't, no big deal.

Think there's a way to use the CM4228 to catch the local channels AND the US channels? They are 52 degrees apart.

said by fifty nine:

If aimed properly I can get most of what is on the report.

Most of what is green on the report? or most of the report TOTAL? If total, that's insane! Too bad for me that even if I can accomplish that, it's all the same channels, repeated.

However I guess I do have reason to make an effort for the local channels. I didn't notice the option for seeing "pending applications" for channels. When I clicked it, a LOT more channels appeared. It's mostly french though

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

said by alkizmo:

I already need a second VHF/UHF antenna to pick up the local stations at 91 degrees.

Not necessarily. You may be able to get it through a sidelobe. Check the antenna pattern.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by Bob4:

You may be able to get it through a sidelobe. Check the antenna pattern.

Yeah people have been saying that often, but I don't see something like antenna pattern in the specs for the CM4228HD

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

»imageevent.com/holl_ands/multiba···enguin_s

EDIT: This appears to be a mathematical analysis, not actual measurements.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by Bob4:

EDIT: This appears to be a mathematical analysis, not actual measurements.

Hmm it looks like I could get channels at 50 degrees off center, but I wouldn't get a dB gain. However I'd get 32 to 57 dB from the start.

Again my problem is that if I want to avoid the tree for the distant stations, I need to place the antenna on the garage, which its roof is lower than the rest of the house. The local channels would be blocked by the rest of the house.... unless I place the antenna as far to the back of my house, where maybe I'd get an edge of clearance.

I think I'll go for the CM4228HD, and try to see if I can get both sets of channels. If i can't, I'll get a second cheaper antenna.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

Most of what is green on the report? or most of the report TOTAL? If total, that's insane! Too bad for me that even if I can accomplish that, it's all the same channels, repeated.

Most of the report, total.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to alkizmo

Ok so I'm definitively going to need two antennas.
From reading on the internet: Tree is a no-no, I gotta avoid it.

To avoid it, I gotta place it over my garage that's lower than the rest of the house.

The rest of the house (upon rechecking the azimuth) is going to COMPLETELY block the local channels LOS.

So I can go for a directional antenna for the far away stations, but still getting conflicting info on whether yagi > panels for long distance.

BTW if I lower my antenna's height to 15 feet, I lose the LOS from tvfool, so I really don't have a lot of wiggle room.

For the local channels, an attic cheapie will do.


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Solution:




alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by Bob4:

Solution:

Spend 1000$ on tree removal services
Or buy a second antenna....

Destruction IS appealing.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06

said by alkizmo:

said by Bob4:

Solution:

Spend 1000$ on tree removal services
Or buy a second antenna....

Destruction IS appealing.

go to loutec and get that cool chainsaw on a pole, 25$ a day and believe me i never had more of a fun time fixing my TV reception!

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

Don't be this guy - »Learning the hard way that safety should always comes first



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

Don't worry. I'm not going to try to cut that tree myself.

It's a 40 years old maple tree that is over 50 feet high.

I'd rather just... put the antenna on the garage.

Probably gonna go for the winegard 91XG, it won't show as much as the large rectangle that is the CM4228HD.
I'll catch the local stations with another antenna on my chimney, it will have no choice but to go through trees for that one, so better just go full directional.


Pher9999

join:2011-07-06
Carmel, NY

Silly idea, could you put the antenna on the tree?



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by Pher9999:

Silly idea, could you put the antenna on the tree?

AFAIK those antennas don't like to move.
The top of the tree would move a lot (it actually splits into 4 trunks, so no central trunk.

Then I'd need a preamp near the antenna to compensate for the 100 feet of RG6... so that preamp would need power, in the tree!

The garage thing isn't so bad. It's not like I had much chance to catch both sets of channels anyway if the tree wasn't in the way. There are about 5 trees directly in the way of the local stations, so I'd need to have the best orientation possible, yet not sacrifice the orientation for the US channels.

I measured the heights yesterday. My chimney is actually 40 feet high while the garage's roof's peak is 20-25 feet high, so the garage isn't so low.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

You could put a 10' mast on the garage.

EDIT: Aren't you guys metric? Why you talkin in feet?



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by Bob4:

You could put a 10' mast on the garage.

Only if 20-25 feet isn't enough.

said by Bob4:

EDIT: Aren't you guys metric? Why you talkin in feet?

Because I know both, but you guys don't


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

said by alkizmo:

said by Bob4:

You could put a 10' mast on the garage.

Only if 20-25 feet isn't enough.

said by Bob4:

EDIT: Aren't you guys metric? Why you talkin in feet?

Because I know both, but you guys don't

We do. We have NASA and stuff here that you don't have there, remember?


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by fifty nine:

We do. We have NASA and stuff here that you don't have there, remember?

I do remember NASA losing a Mars probe because someone didn't read measurements as metric.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:9
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

Then I'd need a preamp near the antenna to compensate for the 100 feet of RG6... so that preamp would need power, in the tree!

That would not be an issue. The pre-amp is powered through the coax cable with a power injector inside the house.

While putting the antenna at the top of a tall tree is an attractive idea from the height perspective it is not very practical for the other reasons given (especially motion of the tree in windy weather).
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Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by leibold:

That would not be an issue. The pre-amp is powered through the coax cable with a power injector inside the house.

Ah.
But what is best? preamp near the antenna or near the TV/Splitter?
edit - Not thinking of putting it in the tree, but I gotta know for when I do setup my ... setup.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:9
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

I do remember NASA losing a Mars probe because someone didn't read measurements as metric.

NASA read them as metric alright (and that is what they were supposed to be). Too bad Lockhead Martin incorrectly specified the force of the thrusters using imperial measurements. Oops
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Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!