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stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
reply to Nick D

Re: [Classes] Warlock 5.0.5 (Affliction)

yeah, once you learn the fights, it gets easier to determine where to use AV. Keep in mind that it has to be damage done directly by the boss - standing in bad won't help you any. Anytime there's massive unavoidable raid damage - or one of those random target direct casts - is probably a good time to use it. The bigger the hit you take, the "better". If you have Soul Link, raidwide AoE is probably the best time to use it, as the damage the pet takes will count towards it as well.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to Immer

Re: [Classes] Warlock 5.0.5

A friend bought be back into wow, and I resisted quite a bit.... However it's turned into the world of dailies which I am not a fan of.

I don't care for the new demon, but good damage, good aoe. I played destro for so long, but it wasn't putting out the dps I wanted it to at least when I was leveling to 90, good for short fights, the aoe was lacking severely. Affliction is slow to start, but has huge damage potential, however I find the proc for regaining shards isn't as fast as I would like it preventing me from doing the soulburn refresh as often as I would like on single targets. The aoe dmg with aff is decent with the move to mastery as a major stat, and fights with lots of adds which are not grouped up aff does suffer a bit on the damage, however they give a chance to get back shards with drain soul.

I do like how the simplified the specs as cata destro was a hell of a rotation for max dps, and it was more complex than affliction which was historically the most complex rotation. I would switch specs between destro, and affliction for raiding in the past as there were very few stand and nuke fights. With being able to move while casting now it helps.

In the end I'm staying with affliction for the moment, and with the drastic gear choices between the specs for me to seriously give the other specs a real shot I would have to redo the gems, even change out some gear. With many of the epic pieces giving crit it would make it easier to play destro, or demon. My lock is at an 478 ilvl right now with valor pieces, some lfr, and my gear setup for affliction is far from optimal for the other specs.

The major downfall to affliction is the dots are less powerful, and you must channel malefic grasp to make them tick for an additional 50% for the spec to produce max dps. No more op dotting, and running.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent out necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1
reply to Immer

I decided to try affliction and I am liking it a lot compared to destro. Definitely seems easier to kill mobs. Not as many casts needed. Soul shard + soul swap = instant set of dots on a mob, repeat for additional mobs. For 4+ mobs do soul shard + seed of corruption a few times.



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to Immer

So I think Mr. Robot has some faulty circuitry and has given me poor advice. So far on my Aff 'lock I've been holding strong to the Int>Hit capped > everything else mentality because it felt right (and it was consistent with the Destro spec so no gear changes). Up until yesterday.

I haven't used Mr. Robot much at all but the site has been getting a lot of publicity and references lately so I decided to go check it out in more detail. If one thing is crystal clear to me, he is against hit capping (and not just for Warlocks). I don't know what made my change my stance, maybe it was his use of capital letters in YOU WILL LOSE DPS if you hit cap the Aff spec, but I conceded. But before I made any reforge changes, I decided I would baseline first.

I know the Dummies aren't the end all tell all, but for simplicity sake I did two minute stints on the lvl 90 dummy and the 90+ dummy. No buffs whatsoever (not even Grim of Sac) and no calling out of the Doomguard. Just the Dot, Haunt, Mal Grasp, refresh, rotation over and over.

Hit capped under this environment, Recount dps was ~55k consistent on both dummies.

Reforged all that hit to Mastery and Haste like the little robot told me, and went back out. Now my recount dps on the lvl 90 dummy was down to ~52-53k (not huge loss relatively speaking, but big loss when you were expecting the opposite) and the 90+ dummy was down to ~49k.

FML. I'll be reforging back soon.



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1

said by Carpie:

So I think Mr. Robot has some faulty circuitry and has given me poor advice. So far on my Aff 'lock I've been holding strong to the Int>Hit capped > everything else mentality because it felt right (and it was consistent with the Destro spec so no gear changes). Up until yesterday.

I haven't used Mr. Robot much at all but the site has been getting a lot of publicity and references lately so I decided to go check it out in more detail. If one thing is crystal clear to me, he is against hit capping (and not just for Warlocks). I don't know what made my change my stance, maybe it was his use of capital letters in YOU WILL LOSE DPS if you hit cap the Aff spec, but I conceded. But before I made any reforge changes, I decided I would baseline first.

I know the Dummies aren't the end all tell all, but for simplicity sake I did two minute stints on the lvl 90 dummy and the 90+ dummy. No buffs whatsoever (not even Grim of Sac) and no calling out of the Doomguard. Just the Dot, Haunt, Mal Grasp, refresh, rotation over and over.

Hit capped under this environment, Recount dps was ~55k consistent on both dummies.

Reforged all that hit to Mastery and Haste like the little robot told me, and went back out. Now my recount dps on the lvl 90 dummy was down to ~52-53k (not huge loss relatively speaking, but big loss when you were expecting the opposite) and the 90+ dummy was down to ~49k.

FML. I'll be reforging back soon.

If you do the hit cap you need to pay attention to your dots and make sure that they all hit. Recast for a miss. This can really hurt if you have a 10 stack agony and wait till the last second to refresh and miss.

Personally I stick with hit cap.


Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

said by Goldheart:

If you do the

You mean if I DON'T stick with hit cap right? Just making sure because even though it sounds backwards, I seem to miss with DOTs hit capped more often than I'd care to admit. It certainly isn't 100% chance of hit as claimed.


bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
reply to Immer

Even for affliction there is a haste soft cap you want to shoot for, I think it's in the 11% range, I can't remember the rating number at work. I noticed that swapping reforges from mastery to haste helped my DPS once I was keeping this haste target maintained. For affliction I have about 14.5% hit, 11.4% haste and about 45% in mastery bonus. With an ilvl of 466 I am getting in the 58K to 61K dps range on LFR/LFD boss fights, even more when there are adds with soulburn+seed of corruption.

One thing I have noticed is I get shadow trance procs a lot more often when questing than in boss fights. Or at least I seem to. I have had many times where I get two procs on the same quest mob, but I can go well over a minute on a boss with nothing. Probably just my mind tricking me since I have other stuff to watch in boss fights.



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

said by bTU:

even more when there are adds with soulburn+seed of corruption.

It's funny that Aff is the "AOE" spec but if the adds don't last for more than 15 seconds I think it fails hard. When we do the dogs, my DPS is always extremely high. SB+SoC and then DOT like crazy and maintain. But when I go against the Klaxxi adds in HoF, they are dead so quick that I'm not even sure that I got to burst my seed. And my DPS is usually garbage. It always goes to the melee AOE. Dem or Destro are the better specs in those situations.

said by bTU:

One thing I have noticed is I get shadow trance procs a lot more often when questing than in boss fights. Probably just my mind tricking me since I have other stuff to watch in boss fights.

I think it's the mind trick. The only time I really lack for them is when I really need them (which is boss fights). In questing, the mobs are dead in 2-3 shards anyhow. SB to spread the DOTs, one for Haunt, and refill with Drain Soul so you don't notice/need the procs as much. I find it's sporadic on boss encounters. There are times (mostly) where I'm left praying for a proc and other times (seldomly) that they are coming so quick I'm refreshing the DOTs with SB.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

»www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/warlock/a···priority

Current theorycrafting is soft haste cap, then all out mastery.



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

I've read it but I don't buy it. (And I love the Noxxic site btw)

I'm going to do the test for dummies again tonight or tomorrow when I reforge back, this time taking 3 shots on each dummy for a 3 minute duration, and see what I get. If my dps goes back up (which I expect it to), then it will put the nails in the theorycraft coffin for me.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

By dumping into mastery you're working on your single target dps for the most part, but without some soft cap of haste the curve it's also less damage to go full mastery like some sites suggest. I know there is some bosses with aoe trash, but generally aoe trash is not how we judge raid dps.

I with I understood more about it, being told to use master gems instead of int gems still doesn't feel right as it lowers your spellpower overall even if dots get a percentage boost.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent out necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA
reply to Carpie

Aff isn't the "AOE" spec.



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

From my experience and readings, it seems in the last two xpacs at least that Aff has been the preferred spec for multiple adds. Perhaps this sways back and forth between demonology at times, but Destro has always been the step child in those situations.



Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA

Demo is an AOE beast right now.



Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

But who wins cleaves right now? BoH is pretty nice for 2 dudes.

There's a difference between 8 tiny mobs and 2 larger ones.

(My impression has been Destro for 2 mobs, Afflic for 3-4, and Demo for 5+ as teh winnar)



Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA

It all comes down to playing what is fun. I personally find Aff easier than Demo. Demo is all about keeping your demon alive, in and out of forms, and demonic fury maintenance. Aff is just dot em mal/drain em.



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1
reply to Carpie

said by Carpie:

said by Goldheart:

If you do the

You mean if I DON'T stick with hit cap right? Just making sure because even though it sounds backwards, I seem to miss with DOTs hit capped more often than I'd care to admit. It certainly isn't 100% chance of hit as claimed.

Correct


Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1
reply to Suniojii

said by Suniojii:

Demo is an AOE beast right now.

Demo isn't quite the AoE beast it used to be but is still good! Certainly better than the other specs. That said, Affliction isn't too bad with soulburn + seed. Destro can do embers + immolate, etc. for some decent AoE as well.


Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

Yeah the embers+curse, embers+immolate, and embers+incinerate are good AOE dmg if you have the time and embers (which isn't all that often). Embers+immolate is the best pinch hitter.

I know I'm asking too much here because of people already complaining about Destros having too much burst power in PVP, but I really wish the embers didn't fade. Nothing gets under my skin more than having full embers when we get to the boss but then being down to one by the time we start because of hesitation on tank/healer.


Soldier78

join:2013-01-14
Belleville, NJ
reply to Immer

So I'm back after a two years and I was doing great leveling up from 85 to 90 as Destro. I'm trying to do affliction since its top dps and on single target I'm good but I'm horrible on trash and AoE on heroics, should I even care? Probably not and can anyone explain the major changes in 5.2 since I'm trying to get back in the swing of things thanks



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

The only changes talked about recently are a reduction of "spread" range down from 15 yards to 10 yards on Seed of Corruption, Soulburn:Curse of Elements, and Fire and Brimstone.

Other banter that has been going on throughout the testing is changing the ember and soulshard glyphs to not allow four of each any longer as well as possibly nerfing the Sac of Grimoire talent so that warlocks do not do more dps without a minion out. Keeping to the theme, Blizz would prefer to see warlocks with minions. Have not seen anything definite on these things lately though.

Oh, and we get a questline for green fire.



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4
reply to Soldier78

Also for AoE targets, it largely depends on how long the mobs are going to last. If they are going to be around awhile:

Four or less: Soulburn: Spread the dots on each. Maintaing dots is the priority and will probably keep you busy but you can throw in some haunts and mal grasps here and there.

5-8: Soulburn:Seed of Corruption and Curse. Then get your dots on as many as possible. Probably the right answer is to manually apply agony on as many as you can, but I generally use the last two shards and then go into a rain of fire until seed pops and I get more shards then use those to dot up any leftovers. Using opinion only (not testing or any theoretical tools), I'd guess this is the way to go for more than 8 mobs that will last awhile. And will want to spread your seed again if it drops and there is still time.

If they are going to be downed in less than 10 seconds (as many are in the LFRs), you can still pop the seed and curse spread and then go into a rain of fire. Or my favorite, use harvest of life (talent). Not because it is the greater dps solution (though I'm sure it's not too far off), but mostly because it is just awesome to see all the green tentacles reaching out all over the place sucking the life from the mobs. One of my favorite visuals of the lock spell toolkit.



Caelharrad

join:2012-04-13
Fenton, MO
reply to Immer

Got tired of my troll druid, deleted him and rolled a Blood elf warlock a couple of days ago; only played him a very little bit so far (level 7), but having fun, especially as I've never played a blood elf before... so all the quests are new to me. I'm figuring to play this guy whenever I get tired of grinding VP/LFR on my main, and need a change of pace/scenery.
...
Any pointers (other than the obvious such as "load up on heirlooms") to make the levelling process as quick/fun/easy as possible? Thanks in advance.



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4

I've never played Demon spec at all so can't comment there. I leveled with Destro/Aff and switched from one to the other often as I leveled which I thought kept things fresh and interesting. I don't think there is a way you can go wrong in questing anymore. You're going to feel (and be) OP for just about every encounter regardless of specs and choices. So as you say, it's more about speed and fun.

For me it was burn things down with Destro as first choice. It's the speed and is fun to see the huge numbers on your chaos bolts. Plus if you have a good headset, listening to the fire sizzle from the spells is music for one's soul. In situations (ie boss of some sort) where I needed more survivability, I'd switch to Aff and pull out the blue marshmallow to tank for me. Release the hound and dot and run.

IDK... I like them both. Have always enjoyed leveling a lock.


Soldier78

join:2013-01-14
Belleville, NJ

Thanks for the tips and I'm in agreement I rather not play Demo if I don't have to